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Technical No oil pressure on fresh rebuild

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by sauterindy, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. sauterindy
    Joined: Dec 19, 2011
    Posts: 15

    sauterindy
    Member

    First flathead. Total 8BA rebuild with professional machining, quarter over bore, all tolerances to spec. Fired right up but shut it down immediately when saw no oil pressure. Checked archives and followed suggestions; dumped oil and refilled pumping it in through the back driver side oil pressure port on block (to ensure primed). Squirted oil in cylinders then cranked 10 seconds on, 20 seconds off. Repeated a number of times. Took out plug by oil pressure port and sure enough little more than a dribble coming out when cranking. Threw in another quart and half of oil just to try it and still no more than dribble. I tried to be very meticulous with the build and at this point can't believe I missed anything (???). The oil pump was new one from Speedway. Guess its time to pull the pan and pump to see if I can find the problem. Outside of making sure it is turning and the inlet tube is in the oil, not sure what else to look for. Looking for suggestions....can it be bench tested? or??.....thanks
     
  2. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,973

    rottenleonard
    Member

    Is there a oil galley plug that has been left out causing an internal bleed off?
     
  3. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,275

    sunbeam
    Member

    I was given a fresh 300 ford that they didn't tighten the oil pump pickup zero oil pressure.
     
  4. kjvma131
    Joined: Jan 10, 2014
    Posts: 31

    kjvma131
    Member
    from New Jersey

    This happened to me on my flathead. I did all the same things you did, what I ended up doing was removing the pump and priming it in a tub of oil by hand. Dont ask me why that worked but it did. I have also packed the gears with vaseline on other oil pumps to prime them. Also make sure yiur pick up tube is mounted correctly and is close to the bottom of the pan and does not have any cracks. Good luck

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     

  5. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
    Member

    Not saying that this is your problem but it can cause the symptoms you describe. The little threaded plug above the cam on the front of the block has been forgotten before.
     

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  6. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,637

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    ^^^^ This one. Had to laugh, (not nice, I know) but years ago in Santa Clara, there was an older man that 'built' flatheads...He had some 'signature' things he'd do, so you could recognize his engines. (one was a triangular stamp he'd imprint the block with, next to the timing cover)

    A high school friend of mine brought his newly built engine to check why it had no oil pressure. Checked a few things, removed timing cover, and Voila! Plug missing.
    Installed a plug, cranked it, and had 20 PSI cranking.

    Years later, a guy came to my shop with the same problem: Bought a rebuilt flattie from a Flathead Specialist in Santa Clara. No oil pressure. I asked who did it. The name he mentioned had me spinning the bolts off the distributor and timing cover... No plug!
    The guy was mystified at how I knew where to look. "I've seen this before," is all I told him.
     
  7. royboy111
    Joined: Oct 18, 2013
    Posts: 7

    royboy111
    Member

    You might want to check the clean out plugs in the crankshaft. May have been removed to clean out oil holes in the crank and never replaced.
     
  8. sauterindy
    Joined: Dec 19, 2011
    Posts: 15

    sauterindy
    Member

    Thanks for all the suggestions, pretty sure didn't leave anything out but something is sure wrong. I'll start with the pump suggestions and go from there.
     
  9. sauterindy
    Joined: Dec 19, 2011
    Posts: 15

    sauterindy
    Member

    On second thought going to start with the front timing cover and check that plug before pull oil pan. I know on one of the junk engines I had it was frozen in place and I never could get it out. May have blocked it out of my mind on this one!
     
  10. slobroy
    Joined: Jun 22, 2009
    Posts: 360

    slobroy
    Member

    Let us know what you find. I'm kinda in the same boat. Did my break-in and all of a sudden no pressure. Haven't looked any further as of yet, just put it on the back burner. Mine has the pump kit from Hot Rod Supply. The full flow through a filter.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  11. aafc1
    Joined: Oct 23, 2011
    Posts: 22

    aafc1
    Member

    What kind of fuel pump? If electric is the rod and bushing still in there? Could be an internal leak at the fuel pump pushrod.
     
  12. flathead4d
    Joined: Oct 24, 2005
    Posts: 888

    flathead4d
    Member

    The first time I did an oil change with full flow system I thought It would be a good idea to fill the spin on filter with oil befor installing it. WRONG! No oil pressure could be obtained. Called Mark Kirby (designer of the full flow system) and he said never fill the filter with oil. That causes a hydraulic lock in the system. I put on a new empty filter and within seconds had normal oil pressure. Live and learn.
     
  13. flathead4d
    Joined: Oct 24, 2005
    Posts: 888

    flathead4d
    Member

    Here's a rare one that happened to me but worth checking. The gear on rear of the cam shaft, which is a press on fit, came loose and would not drive the oil pump. Worth checking. I had to pull my cam and have the gear pinned.
     
  14. flatcat
    Joined: Nov 16, 2013
    Posts: 45

    flatcat
    Member

    had a flatty in my shop a while back .010 cam and std. bearings
     
  15. frosty49
    Joined: Apr 23, 2012
    Posts: 36

    frosty49
    Member

    Have to agree with flathead4d. Make sure gear fits shaft good and is not loose. Might need shaft and gear. I run 90% full flow system on mine(8BA). Runs 60psi hot and driving and 45psi at idle
     
  16. sauterindy
    Joined: Dec 19, 2011
    Posts: 15

    sauterindy
    Member

    OK, here's my update. Crank plugs are in place, threaded lug on front above cam is in place as well. The idler gear that drives the pump shaft is turning and solid so seems to be driving the pump ok. I am using the original oil filter set-up but I took that out of the circuit first thing (plugged input and drain back to pan).

    I am running electric fuel pump and may very well have not left the rod and/or bushing out, but not sure. First time I've heard that one. If aacf1 or someone could expand or validate that as good possibility that would be great as I hate to pull the intake also. I thought I was ready to rock and roll several days ago.

    Right now plan is to order new cam cover and pan gaskets, pack the pump with Vaseline as suggested and put back together (pending further thought on the fuel pump possibility pointed out). By the way, anyone who has packed with Vaseline....did you pack just the pump or carry it down the pick-up tube as well. I assume best to fill the tube as well.

    I will update next week end to see if the problem is solved. Thanks again.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. So you don't have a fuel pump pushrod in place?


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  18. If you left the fuel pump pushrod out you will not be able to get proper oil pressure. A small freeze plug driven in that hole at the rear of the block under the fuel pump stand will cure that.
     
  19. sauterindy
    Joined: Dec 19, 2011
    Posts: 15

    sauterindy
    Member

    crap, that may be it. going out to pull the intake now.
    js
     
  20. sauterindy
    Joined: Dec 19, 2011
    Posts: 15

    sauterindy
    Member

    That's the problem. Missed the point of blocking the hole in the block after deciding on electric fuel pump. Thanks to aafc1 for bringing it up and sidevalve and shawnsauto confirming the issue. Thought I had read and studied about everything before the build but sure missed that. Still going to pack the pump with Vaseline but glad to have found a for sure issue as well.:eek:
     
  21. 41fordor
    Joined: Nov 9, 2008
    Posts: 76

    41fordor
    Member

    On my 41 flattie the replacement "short" pump and pickup interfered with the bottom of the pan. A little persuasion with a wooden fence post deepened the sump enough
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
  22. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,442

    Mart
    Member

    Check there isn't a set screw in the horizontal drilling of the oil ways. These are fitted if the oil system had been converted to near full flow. There will be an extra port inboard of the two existing ports, that may be plugged.

    Probably not applicable in this case, but it has been known to happen.

    Mart.
     
  23. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Seems you've found your problem. Another way to find where the oil is going is to blow air into an oil galley an listen for a big flow.
     
  24. old soul
    Joined: Jan 15, 2011
    Posts: 1,093

    old soul
    Member
    from oswego NY

    Had this happen on a fresh built 454. Pulled the pan to check the oil pump and there was a blue shop rag sucked in the pick up to the pump.
     
  25. flatjack
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 936

    flatjack
    Member

    Nonsense. If the pushrod bushing is in place, you should get good oil pressure. There is only a small hole drilled in that bushing on an 8BA. Pressure loss is small. Remember, the pushrod is a loose fit in that bushing and does not seal in any manner. You may get some spray in the lifter gallery, but that's it.
     
  26. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    So you need to drain the filter whenever you shut the engine down or does it drain itself?
     
  27. 270dodge
    Joined: Feb 11, 2012
    Posts: 742

    270dodge
    Member
    from Ohio

    I've got little knowledge of flatmoters but got a buddy that has. He has run and raced flats since the 50's. He was having similar oiling problems and I suggested that it might be the improper installation of the cam bearings. I visited later and he said that I was right. The holes in the cam bearings were not aligned properly. Just a thought.
     
  28. flatjack
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 936

    flatjack
    Member

    If the holes were not aligned properly, they would restrict the flow and result in high pressure at the back of the block where the pressure is measured.
     
  29. tig master
    Joined: Apr 9, 2009
    Posts: 416

    tig master
    Member
    from up north

    +++ nonsense missing pump rod on 8ba will still give you pressure. Different on a 59a

    T
     
  30. 270dodge
    Joined: Feb 11, 2012
    Posts: 742

    270dodge
    Member
    from Ohio

    Well I disavowed knowledge of flattys and now that you say that I'm thinkin that the problem was as you have described. I just wanted to emphasize the importance of proper installation of these bearings.
     

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