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No front brakes for the street?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lakesmod, Nov 20, 2006.

  1. lakesmod
    Joined: May 27, 2002
    Posts: 458

    lakesmod
    Member

    I like the looks of spindle mounted front wheels(Deaths door step). The car is a Zipper motors New Lakes Modified body
    www.zippermotors.com

    The car should be some where between 1900#to2200#.
    Thinking about two master cylinders,one for each rear wheel.
    Looking for comments.

    Fred
     
  2. JohnnyP.
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,301

    JohnnyP.
    Member

    i do know that something like 80% of your stopping is with the front brakes...
     
  3. roddinron
    Joined: May 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,676

    roddinron
    Member

    First, personally I don't think any car should be driven on the street without front brakes, you're not the only one out there. And, why separate MC on the rear, steering brakes?
     
  4. Fossil
    Joined: Jan 9, 2006
    Posts: 357

    Fossil
    Member

    There are some old spindle mount wheels that actually had disc brakes. The new E/T wheels look like spindle mounts as well, and they have front brakes so you should be able to adapt something and maintain the "look". As for running without them...my opinion only...but i would not do it. There are a some things I'm willing to sacrifice in the name of "I like the looks of it"...but no front brakes is not one of them. Even the car I race has brakes on all four corners. Consider that most of the braking forces are coming from the front end, and also many of the old drag cars that had no front binders also had a chute...for good reason.
     

  5. I ran my t-bucket to the max with halcraft wires and motorcycle tires
    for years, always figured those skinny tires wouldn't do much stopping anyway and I loved sliding into a parking spot full steering while the brakes had the rear wheels locked.
    Never had an instant where they made me nervous
     
  6. ratstar
    Joined: Feb 22, 2005
    Posts: 1,313

    ratstar
    Member

    I think he reasoning behind this was simply like when you use the two pot master. You still have one if the other fails. It might be quite the ride trying to get it to stop straight but its a little bit of back up.
     
  7. Since 70% or so of your stopping power is via the front brakes, not a good idea.

    There are a lot of perfectly acceptable ways of doing front brakes that will be accepted by most of the hot rod crowd.

    Wanna get an idea of how well rear brakes only stop?
    Try a modulated - no tire skidding - stop with the E-brake.
    Then try one with the rear wheels locked up.
    (Be aware that you can bend the brake anchor pins on some cars doing the E-brake emergency stop bit.)

    Ever ride a dirt bike?
    And try a hard stop with rear brake only?
    There is a reason they put front brakes on dirt bikes . . . and cars.
     
  8. I have a disc brake rear(you won't be able to see 'em), on a light weight RPU I wonder if it would be enough, since they are discs, not drums.
     
  9. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,818

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    might as well not fix the rusted floor, then you have a back up just in case the brakes fail then. if you ask for trouble enough, you will eventually find it.
     
  10. gowjobs
    Joined: Mar 5, 2003
    Posts: 776

    gowjobs
    Member

    The 18" twelve-spokes manufactured by Radir and the new forged 15" five-spoke spindle-mounts from American Racing both come with bosses on the back side of the hub for mounting of a disc brake. With the narrow tires you'd normally mount on these, you won't need huge calipers, and you'll want to run an adjustable proportioning valve, but you'd be happy to have them in a panic stop situation.

    With the near 50/50 weight bias of a modified, your front brakes would be handling over half of your braking forces, even with the small tire contact area. It might not have been as much of a concern in the past, but with all these bozos talking on their cell phones and doing panic stops in their ABS-equipped mommy-boxes, things are more hazardous for a rod with a braking system that was considered by most to be inadequate in the '70s.
     
  11. Years ago you might have been able to get away with out front brakes,,,but today when the idiot in front of you that slams on his power disc brakes for no reason at all,,,,your toast without the stoppin' power of front brakes of some sort,,,,:eek: HRP
     
  12. lakesmod
    Joined: May 27, 2002
    Posts: 458

    lakesmod
    Member

    Thanks,I'll be using front brakes.
    Fred
     
  13. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,619

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

     
  14. TINGLER
    Joined: Nov 6, 2002
    Posts: 3,410

    TINGLER

    Hey guys, I see this topic come up a lot on here.

    Its always the same response too. No front brakes equals death because someone in front of you has better brakes.


    I understand the theory behind that statement, but why do you all not make the same arguement when it comes to....oh...lets say a metal dashboard as opposed to a padded one?

    Or how about those deadly F-1 steering columns that impale the driver?

    Or any number of antiquated items we live with everyday on these safety nightmares we call "cars".


    I would think that with a light car and no front brakes that a fellow would learn to drive more cautiously and not tailgate the car in front of him.....


    I'm not saying that no front brakes is safe. What I'm saying is that making a case for front brakes based on having to share the road with idiots.....well, thats a slippery slope that ends with padded dashes and crumple zones.



    Edit: and just to be clear. I'd use front brakes....'cause the car would stop better.
     
  15. Flexicoker
    Joined: Apr 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,416

    Flexicoker
    Member

    Because brakes are the single most important safety feature on a car. The one the prevents said accidents from happening in the first place.

    Anyone can learn to drive more cautiously and leave more space ahead, but there are always going to be 'oh shit' moments. And thats what good brakes are for.
     
  16. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,619

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    Tingler, I agree with you, but I believe it all depends where you live and how congested the area is w/ cars ect. ect. ect..............I plan on trying it, and already done it with the little that I have driven my Coupe.........but I do not want someone to do it because they noticed my car does not have them, they need to understand when behind the wheel it becomes a different ball game, and like you suggested drive carefully.....................but anything can happen.......even if your equipped with four wheel disc.............you can still end up cold and w/ no pulse behind the wheel..because of the others on the road......I just want to say its not a good practice.............but one I am willing to do ..but realize the possible out come.......Its like pulling a trailer, you must look out for everyone else.....We have them not so swell drivers in our area.........Littleman....I would not go this route if I where to build a daily driver, one that will see lots of active duty freeway and all....some I am sure somewhere does it or has done it, its just their choice, and have no problem with it...
     
  17. hellbound gasser
    Joined: Dec 13, 2005
    Posts: 435

    hellbound gasser
    Member

    Lots of strong opinion on this one. I have a 41 ford with no front brakes. it is a helluva lot more stressful to drive long distances than anything else i have ever driven, but not impossible. does well in traffic just have to keep well off the car in front of me. it comes down to how well you know your car. a lot of people tell me it is stupid, it probly is. i am still to young to care. i have been driving this car on the street for almost 4 years now. it has been to bakersfield and vegas and lots of place in between. you just have to be "on" all the time when you drive, no relaxing, no drinking soda or talking on the cell phone. a buddy of my has no front brakes on his a coupe with a nine inch in the back and big drums and says it stops better than early juice brakes all the way around. it helps to have a manual transmission.....
     
  18. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,619

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA


    Its a white knuckle ride...........just the way I like them..........could not agree with ya more, you must Know your ride!....Littleman
     
  19. Sawracer
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,315

    Sawracer
    Member
    from socal

    I drive a restored model A coupe on occasion and I have used the e brake on big hills where I couldn't catch a lower gear to slow down in that swiss watch of a three speed. I ended up sliding up beside the car I was supposed to rear end. Rear brakes suck and juice brakes are in my future. If I wanted to be cool and lightweight, which I don't, I would just run front brakes.
     
  20. Slide
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 3,022

    Slide
    Member

    What? You mean I should PAY ATTENTION to this ton-and-a-half of sheet metal rolling down the road??? And all the other ones like it?

    Sometimes I wonder: if we took away all the ABS's and passive restraint systems and other things that make us PERCEIVE new cars are so safe-- would we become safer drivers? I wish there was a way to make people realize that they need to be as you say, "on all the time" when they are behind the wheel, no matter if it's a minivan, a dump truck, or a hot rod.
     
  21. T-Bone
    Joined: Mar 17, 2001
    Posts: 359

    T-Bone
    Member

    The first thing that pops in my head is WHY? I can almost see the arguement for no front brakes on a lakester or a lightweight tbucket but on a heavy car like a 41 Ford???? Thanking God you don't share the same highways as I do......
     
  22. atomickustom
    Joined: Aug 30, 2005
    Posts: 3,409

    atomickustom
    Member

    Just a thought: I have lost the rear brakes on cars and unless it rains or snows you can hardly even tell. (If it DOES snow, you're gonna hit something!)
    On the other hand, I lost the front brakes once on a car and had a hell of a time just getting it home. The rears lock up easy because when you try to stop the weight of the car shifts forward and unloads the rear wheels. That means the more you have to stop, the less the rear brakes will stop you! Unless you're going to run giant meats on the rear (like the t buckets all used to have), I'd never ride with you. Of course, you might not want me to ride with you, but that's a whole other issue...
     
  23. lik2writ
    Joined: Feb 12, 2004
    Posts: 434

    lik2writ
    Member
    from NY

    It's not always about us in our cars or as so often put "the idiot driver " of another car. We also share the road with a lot more than cars these days; deer, dogs, people/kids crossing the street out of nowhere, and oh yeah, the kid on his bike.
     
  24. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,619

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA


    Yes you should be alert no matter what kind of vehicle your driving. A couple of weeks ago, someone pulled out in front of me, while I was driving my 04 F150, I was going the speed limit and if it was not for my 4 wheel disc and anti lock brakes, we would have hit.............If I had been in my A Truck no question I would not have stopped in time and had my 6x2 in my lap, if I was lucky I might have been able to leave the road entirely, but she did her move so close to me I doubt I would have made it.............Bottom line is we can never build them safe enough, all you can do is make sure you do your proper checks on all your vehicles systems ect. what ever you may have.............I would not run no front brakes because you may think its kool not to have them......But its up to the builder..Have fun and be safe Littleman
     
  25. Scott K
    Joined: Oct 17, 2005
    Posts: 824

    Scott K
    Member



    The car should be some where between 1900#to2200#.
    Thinking about two master cylinders,one for each rear wheel.
    Looking for comments.

    Fred[/quote]


    I pray that the only one that gets hurt is you. I've been on skid pads with the front and rear brakes both fully functional, just out of balance and the car swapped ends too fast to catch. PUT FRONT BRAKES ON IT!!
    So, your cruising down a neighborhood street looking cool in you bad ass ride. You don't see little Jimmy until the last second as he darts into the street chasing his ball, you hammer the brakes to miss little Jimmy, but you lock the brakes, loose control and wipe out his little sister and the neighbor kids...good job ace.
     
  26. SinisterCustom
    Joined: Feb 18, 2004
    Posts: 8,274

    SinisterCustom
    Member

    Well said Slide!
    All these new cars with their navigation systems, ABS, and now with talk of onboard computers so you can check your E-mail in traffic is giving driver's a FALSE sense of security.
    Higher technology isn't always PROGRESS.
     
  27. I like to hope that those of us who learned to drive in an old car (myself included) or those that drive 'em on a regular basis are more perceptive than others. Even though my current "custom" brakes as well as my daily and can finally get out of it's own way, I still drive like I've got old drums on all fours and keep my eyes open like everyone's out to get me. We're a different breed, but we're still succeptible to the other idiots on the road.

    As far as the rear-brakes only on a hot rod, my friends '29 RPU was set up that way and after taking it on a couple test runs in mild traffic, he said he'd never do it again.

    Bryan
     
  28. mustangsix
    Joined: Mar 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,331

    mustangsix
    Member

    That shit works. The death rate and total number of fatalities has steadily been decreasing, mostly because of these devices.

    That's where the remaining safety gains are. Getting the dumbasses to turn off the phone and DRIVE.
     
  29. Slide
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 3,022

    Slide
    Member

    Not sure where you're getting your facts, but this is probably true... however, I wonder how many accidents would be avoided in the first place if people drove their cars with the consideration that they might die if they wreck?

    Also, people don't put as much value on their cars anymore, so they don't care if it gets crumpled. It's just an appliance now. If it gets smacked, I'll get another one. And it's not a $25,000 appliance... it's a $326 per month appliance.

    oops... didn't mean to derail the thread... now back to our regularly scheduled topic.
     
  30. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,619

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    I was thinking about all this on the way home from work.........If you think about it.........How many people have a car that is running no front brakes on the street? besides the ones at the Drag strip.....That # has to be pretty low overall through out the hobby.........What worries me for example, you will find this where I live, so I am not talking about anyone on the Hamb....I have seen someone drag race their hotrod W/ front old kool looking dry rotted tires, Then drive it home and have one blow out..........Their are far more people doing this than not running front brakes....Their are far more people building hotrods on the cheap, disregarding basics such as ackerman only to turn around and dump the heap on e-bay to someone that thinks it looks great but really could be a death trap to all.............You have far too many people that think that they can weld in back yard garages, I have looked at a local car at a show, looked under it only to find that three out of his four body mounts had cracked all the way...............So I guess what I am trying to say is that just because a hotrod looks great and safe, may not be the case. I let the owner know about his broken mounts in private and he was grateful, even offered a new design idea........We all drive side by side each other,and you just never know what is lurking. Now keep in mind I have no idea what I am doing half the time, I just try to use common sense when I build anything, and am self taught, all we can do is try our best, but beware their are others that really do not know and some that do not care. If they have brakes on all four corners does not make them all safe........Littleman...I am in no way trying to defend the brake issue, its just a whole lot bigger than brakes alone....I may be way off base but this is what I was thinking, and I could go on, but hate typing like a bird. I know we all have to learn somehow, thats why we should all ask questions....
     

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