Nitromethane + Hydrazine = MADNESS!!!!

I know there are more than a few old drag racers on the HAMB. And I know how the rest of us love stories. So, I'll start:

One of my Viper brothers, the late and sorely missed, John Hogan, used to work for Chris Karamazines, the Golden Greek. This was way back in the sixties, I know if we say we remember the sixties we weren't really there, whatever. The Greek used to try every and anything to go faster and quicker. One of the craziest things was using hydrazine as an exciter and oxigenator for Nitro. John said he used to have to keep the 8oz of hydrazine in a box full of ice, covered with a towel. The Greek would do his burn out and after he backed up John would open the fuel tank and add the stuff while they took off the throttle stop and switched the pump to the high side. As soon as the pump picked the mixed potion up the engine started heaving and barking and making a hellacious noise. Started throwing big GREEN flames in the air. Then the green light would go on and the car would launch like nothing ever seen before. The deal was that they had to run the whole tank out or it would become hypergolic and blow a crater in the track. So they idled the car back down the return road until the tank was used up. Of course NHRA got wind of this shit and banned hydrazine in competition. Those were the days. The saying went something like: "If the ground is shakin; and the flames are green, he must be using that Hydrazine." And that's the inspiration for my calling my chili the Hydrazine Flash!

Anybody got any more Hydrazine stories?? I'd like to complile a bunch of them for an article or even a short book. They weren't the only guys to fool with the stuff. If you know any stories, please share.

 

nuttin like rocket fuel in a race car... good thing no one ever got blown up mixing the stuff. these storys i GOTTA hear

 

Once upon a time in the south......yea, some of us used Hydrazine....

Every now and then we would add a drop or two......kept it in a vinegar bottle in the glove compartment of our push truck.....

One of our "competitors" insisted that we give him some of our "special sauce"...we did, along with instructions......"DO NOT PUT IT ALL IN AT ONE TIME".......he did not heed our warnings......heard this horrible sound...a certain hemi, with the front wheels sitting up on the trailer, just started up...something was definately going on there......looked over and saw him running around the car, pulling wires off, it still ran.....sounded like 10,000 rpms.....then the crank blew out on the ground........we left.

That stuff was hell on parts, but was good for a while. I tried some in an old panhead.....big mistake.

We put a little in for "pre-qualifying" at Daytona once......went 4 laps before it finally got "mixed" ......had em all worried .....new track record..lol......then we were back to our usual roller cammed, roller bearinged, "legal" engine. lol.....

M.

 

Cool story....guys would try anything.

 

What was the name of that company with the ads in 60's Hot Rod Magazines?

Turbonautics?

 

We put a little in for "pre-qualifying" at Daytona once......went 4 laps before it finally got "mixed" ......had em all worried .....new track record..lol......then we were back to our usual roller cammed, roller bearinged, "legal" engine. lol.....


4 laps!!! I'm surprised an engine could live 4 SECONDS with that stuff!

Great story about the guy blowing up on the trailer. you did warn him. ha ha ha

 

Turbo-niques???????Is that the one where you bolted a small jet engine to your axle?...............OLDBEET

 

Turbo-niques???????

Beet, weren't those the guys with the hydrogen peroxide rockets??

 

Skinner, Jobe, Sorokin.
The Surfers!

 

Those rocket adds were in all the mags when I was a kid. They claimed crazy results, but I never saw one........OLDBEET

 

Ah, yes. The Red Apple Motel tune up. They ran The Can and used smaller nozzles for better atomization. Took the other guys quite a while to catch on to that one. Did the Surfers ever run Hydrazine?

 

Didn't they power a go-kart with a turbonique and run it against some famous digger like Tommy Ivo?

 

For a GREAT read about the Surfers check out www.kerosenebomb.com/

The column on the right side, second story. Honest, this is really worth
a look.

cp

 

Chili-

A good story indeed. And a bonus (for me anyways), in that finding the
"kerosene" site has re-connected me with the work of Cole Coonce (former prime-mover at the old "Nitronics Research" website.

Thanks!

 

Hey Stan,
Glad you liked it. My pal Chris Martin who used to write for National Dragster and now writes for Drag racing Online turned me onto Cole a few years ago. Gonzo Journalism did NOT die with Hunter Thompson. Check out Chris's stuff at www.dragracingonline.com Lots of great stuff on there. Read the Funny car stuff by Frank Oglesby too.

Phil

 

I also posted this topic on another board and got this response.

"Wait, I'm old....I remember....I think!! If it's burnin' green--It's hydrazine. One night at the "beach" I noticed a jr fueler(remember REAL jr fuel--850 lbs & the whole can) runnin' kinda green. They came back to the pits to cool it down where the hoses and mud were. They parked it and walked away to get some hot-dogs or something. About 5 minutes later there was a loud explosion, and the cylinder heads had blown OFF the SBC and were just layin' in the cool-down area.ANHYRDOUS 'ZINE...exciting and unpredictable!I'm a professional....Don't try this at home!!"

Shows what a crazy thing it really was…

cp

 

THANK YOU so much Phil! What a fantastic read. well worth it.


jerry

 

I read an article about the Surfers in a hot rod mag at some point in my childhood.

Those guys are my heros.

 

yeah, thanks.

what a read

 

If you guys like Cole Coonce's article about the surfers you need to read his book "infinity over zero" Amazon has it. Cole is a genuine hotrod/drag history nut and a surreal/stream of consciousness type author. Some of you may remember "Nitronic Reasearch" RIP- My original favorite message board/ website. It was his brainchild also. Brad

 

While we're on the subject of fuel additives does anybody have any experience with propylene oxide as a gasoline additive? I know the roundy roundys use it sometimes. Brad

 

Thank You,
I enjoyed reading this article tremendously,I saw all these guys run and it bring's back a lot of memories .My dad started taking me to the drags in 58-59. Those from the Ft. Worth -Dallas area might remember Caddo Mills,Eagle Mountain Nat.Gaurd base,Green Valley raceway,Houston and Ok.city.
We saw all the "names" during that time. Remember those "Sunday-Sunday" radio spots?
I took him to Texas Motorplex and he saw Eddie Hill run 4.99
Damm i'm gettin old.

Thanks

 

I've posted this question on a few other boards. Here's another response:

I used to hang with a lot of heavy hitters from the 60's that had top fuel dragsters. Most of them never messed with hydrazine. It was added to the tank in very small quantities right before the run. If it was allowed to remain in the tank or fuel system after the run; it began to gel and turned into a Class A explosive. If you tried to fire the car after it sat for awhile there was a possibility that the engine would explode similar to hydraulicing a motor. There was at least one pit death and some injuries that resulted from this.

chili

 

I'm really starting to get info from the guys who were there. here's more:

Hydrazine does sensetize nitro, and becomes unstable within 20 to 30 minutes, and is highly shock sensetive. It is also EXTREMELY Poisionous, and can be absorbed through the skin. If you can find a chemical reactivity chart, you'll find the numbering system running from 1 to 5, with 1 being benign and 5 extra nasty. In all the catagorities chemicals are judged on, Hydrazine rates 5 in all but one. Pour a little on a piece of rusty iron, and the rust catches on fire!!! Bad stuff, to be avoided.

!!!!!!! :-0

 

propylene oxide isn't really compatible with gasoline. It is in the same chain as methanol. It's basically liquid nitrous oxide. It will make a little difference. Alky racers have been know to find that in their tank. They use that stuff as a fumigant in flower shops.

 

Whadda ya think the EPA would have to say about this !!

1953.........

 

Never mind the EPA...Homeland security will have you hanging by your thumbs in a cage in Guantanamo long before they show!

 

wow, I never knew about this stuff, this has been quite the informative thread.

I love hearing about this kind of insanity, those must have been the days. I can only imagine what it must have looked like with the green flames and noise. Really badass.

 

Man! I am having FUN with this thread. Here's some more from another site where I asked for stories:

Well, I have CRS real bad, but I do remember one story from Indy "68 or "69 about when nobody wanted to admit they used it.
I had reunited with Walton/Anderson for a few races and went to help. As anyone who ran the stuff knew, there was a story that anything over 5% of the stuff would turn the mix to a class A explosive within 20 minutes! Nobody knew if it was true or not, but did NOT want to find out!
I think I remember 65 T/F cars shooting for 32 spots. In the first three pair, there were oildowns, they didn't do as good of a job as today, and were pretty quick clean ups but were almost 25 minutes behind from when the session started.
When the next pair BOTH blew up and oiled both lanes, Walton and I looked at each other and panicked ! Off came the nose, out came the tank and main line and a rush over to the grass area to dump it. While it was draining, I looked up to see about six or eight other guys also draining theirs.

65 Fuelers!! Man I miss those days. NHRA's big show can barely draw 16 cars to make the ladder now. VRA N/FC and T/F are getting good car counts lately. More fun because they can run the Can, Lid and Label. (That means no % restrictions for Nitro)

Bruce, somebody on another board, someone I have huge respect for, a longtime pro tuner, said he was asked not to tell these stories because of the Okie City bombing.

To the politically rabid, please don't make comments about how wrong this is and how the country is losing its way or shit like that and get this fun thread locked by the moderators. There are many more stories to hear. After the California Hot Rod Reunion when we get together in the Viper's pit there will be lots more. I have many pals who don't do no computers. But they were there. I'll try to corner Karamezenes (the Greek) if he is there and get him talking about it. One of the Vipers who has passed away used to crew for the Greek in the sixties and started this obsession with Hydrazine for me. I know that the Greek loved him and I hope he'll share info with me.

Thanx, friends.

chili

 

Bending the topic just a little --

In the sixties I worked in aerospace, some of the time on the Thor/Delta program. I learned that the Delta second stage used hypergolic propellants (ignite spontaneously when they are put together), specifically RED FUMING NITRIC ACID and UNSYMMETRICAL DIMETHYL HYDRAZINE.

I remember thinking that, if there were a prize awarded for the scariest names for chemicals, that that pair deserved first place.