@JollyGreenGiant that is one killer 57!! And having an original "grumpy" engine is awesome!!! Way cool
I was just watching a video of the 1964 Nationals and there was a 54 or there abouts Oldsmobile with 'Jolly Green Giant' written across the back. Any relation?
This is Post 6713 pg224 quoting Colesy who said "I believe this was the 1969 Cars Magazine meet at Cecil County. Don Potter's 65 Chevy "Shiftless" and Norm Fryers 007 66 Chevy." Trying to find these Colesy pictures so I can figure out if Don Potter's car was a 65 wagon. But I can't find Colesy's post. He set the ET record for H/SA=11.50 class at 13.40 ET in May 1968, but by that time the 396/325hp-L35 was factored to 360hp so it had to be a heavy wagon to fit class, I guess. Trying to confirm that.
As a peripheral observation, I had never been aware of that much horsepower ever having been tacked onto the 325 horsepower combination. It seems to me that the L34 began life at 350/360 while it was the L35 that was initially rated at 325. The biggest difference between the two was the cam spec but even today, with the inflated and frequently shifted ratings in use, the L35 is still at 325. I believe that it was boosted to 330 for a couple of years but the effect of having essentially the same lobe lift as a 220 horsepower 283 has always been a limiting factor.
My NHRA classification book does not show the 396-350/360 for 65 or 66 but there is a 409-340 for 65.
You're absolutely right! Good catch. I should have looked before posting. The 350 horsepower, Q-jet carburetor motor didn't show up until 1968 and then only in Camaro, Nova, Chevelle. The 1966/67, 360 horsepower, Holley carburetor, 396 was available only in the Chevelle. Come to think of it, I don't recall anyone around here running that motor in a Chevelle although I remember having an intake for that combination on the shelf for a while. Also, I'm working off current spec sheets. I don't have a Classification Guide from the Jr. Stock era. Thanks for correcting my erroneous assumption. c
Thats the problem - when analyzing any of these old pictures, it depends on what Race Year the picture is from. I do know that the 396/325-L35, 396-360-L34 (1966 Holley) and 396/350-L34 (1967 Holley, 1968up Qjet) were all factored at FHP=360 in SUPERstock from 1968-up. (The L34 was also factored at FHP=360 in SUPERstock, because in SS, any cam is allowed, and that makes the engines identical hence the same NHRA FHP=360). I had heard that the 396/325-L35 was also factored at FHP=360 in STOCK back then too. But this car says differently. Colesy wrote back on $FB and indeed it's a 65 2dr sedan, and that only fits class at 325hp, ie unfactored. here is the picture he sent, maybe the same one I was looking for:. Thanks all for helping with the detective work. Trying to get this history down before it's lost, this thread is a great help.
Here's another element: In 1972, on my first trip to Indy, I drove a '69 Camaro SS/LA owned by Richard Salcido of Whittier, CA. After a lengthy class elimination run-off (I think that there were about ten cars), we were down to the final three cars, myself, Bernie Agaman in a similar Camaro, and Willard Wright who was driving a '65 full-sized Chevrolet two-door, 396-powered entry. I think that it was a 325 hp car. Bernie and I had run low 12s (just about on the existing SS/LA record) but Willard dusted my butt with an 11.90 pass to my 12.06. In the class final, Willard red-lighted against Agaman but ran considerably faster against the clocks than the Camaro. In those days, one needed to win class in order to compete for the eliminator title so we loaded up for the trip home. On Monday, Bernie went all the way to the Super Stock final before losing to John Lingenfelter. I don't remember if Willard's car was a Bel-Air or a Biscayne. It's difficult to differentiate between the two body models when the only thing you can see is the trunk lid but I do recall that it was silver in color. Perhaps Gary Glover can add information to this vague recollection? c
From this discussion & others I'm sort of concluding that the big cars were sometimes factored later than the X,F,A body cars, or sometimes not at all. The 350 LM1 was factored from 255 to FHP=270 right away, its 1st & only car year 1969. But Boertman ran an LM1 Biscayne in 1969-70 at 255hp. THEN for 1971 the big car LM1 was factored to FHP=270, so Hickernell &others had to run a big Impala 2dr coupe to run the same W/P=14.00 class. Pictures of both cars to confirm it. And it looks like the 396/325-L35 was factored to FHP=360 in Race Year RY68, for the X,F,A bodies, in both stock & superstock. But it seems the big car was left at 325hp. Because in this 1972 story in SUPERstock, SS/LA=11.50 so whether Biscayne or Belair, it only fits with an unfactored 396/325-L35. Leaving the 396/325-L35 unfactored in the big car would also be consistent with an unfactored 427/335-LS1, exact same engine just 31 inches bigger. And it seems pretty consistent with the modern NHRA factor tables as well. Sort of. Maybe this was the beginning of NHRA factoring not only the engine, but the car it was in as well. I've never seen it before but it clearly happened for the LM1 in 1971, and looks like the same for the L35. Like a giant puzzle, and so many of the pieces are missing.
About the only consistent part of the story is inconsistency. As one who remained hooked on the sport through the days of manufacturer's arbitrary factory ratings, NHRA's arbitrary horsepower changes, complete eradication of a popular eliminator category, eventual disqualification of entire decades of automotive evolution, etc., the level of tenacity required to keep coming back for more defies any logical explanation. Perhaps Stock/Super Stock racing could be more accurately categorized as an addiction than a sport?
Just studying this page hunting for clues about car, model, engine. Was the "T" only for winners or the winners and runner-up cars that went on to eliminations? Or did that vary by race year? Right now I'm looking at the 32 cars (each) in the 1970 Summernatoinals eliminations, 32 Superstock & 32 Stock. In some cases, there's 3, 6, even 9 (NINE) cars from a single class among the 32 in the runoff. How would THAT happen? Nobody else showed up? This was the 1st Summernationals so maybe that was it. Also re your 1971 Stash, any chance of the 1971 Summernationsls or 1973 US Natoinals being in there? Hunting for those, can't find em.
I have a question on Beckert's combo. For 1969, P/S=17.00 so 3338/195=17.12 But as of race year 1970, the 265/195 Duntov was banned x-Vette. So, what combo did Beckert run then? Most went to the 210 2ds 265/180hp which fit Q/S=17.00 at 3079/180=17.12 Most of the pictures I see are Beckert's 4door 55 wagon, but what did he run in 1970 after the ban?
Ok found it. Looks like Beckert switched over to a 150 2d sedan with a 265/180hp to prepare for the 1970 ban of the 265/195hp Duntov combo.
In my experience, the "T" was place on the windshield of both cars in the class final. The 1971 Winternationals was my first NHRA race so I don't have information prior to that event. That practice continued throughout the 70s and into the 80s. Likewise, the "E" would have appeared on both cars in the Eliminator final round. I can't address the issue of multiple cars from the same class in Eliminations. It was somewhat later when the "all run" Eliminator format was initiated. I don't have information on any of the other events at hand. I might have them buried somewhere because I never threw a HotRod Magazine issue away. On the other hand, Drag News and National Dragster issues went by the wayside fairly soon unless there was an interesting picture included in a specific issue. By 1973, two years after the Great Purge, the entries in Stock would all have been raced under the new rules. A significant number of Junior Stock racers would probably turn up running in Super Stock and the landscape had changed. Sorry I can't be of more help. c
Saw this car in Bowling Green yesterday. There’s more pictures in the thread that is linked in my signature.
I remember those days clearly. Chuck Parcell's relatively pristine entry ("The Beauty") in the far lane usually travelled in the company of Ike Smith's ("The Beast") in Division 7. Ike prepared both cars. Riverside Raceway's drag strip ran south-to-north on the back straight of the road course in the area known today as Moreno Valley. Like the rest of L.A. County's race tracks, Riverside Raceway was converted to more lucrative commercial and residential use many years ago. c
SS/LA class final at Indy in 1972. Got a clear view of the back-side of that car on that particular day! c
Sad to report the passing of Buck Wheatley. Always nice to spend time with him at the York Reunions and the Tri5 Nationals where he attended with David Fleming and the Heart Breaker Too tribute 57 wagon.
At the risk of going off-topic, I'd like to call attention to the fact that Lyn Smith, a frequent contributor to this thread. went five rounds in Stock Eliminator at Indy earlier this month. Nice going, Lyn!! That's no small trick in what is, arguably, the toughest field of the year. I was rooting for both you and Donnie as the rounds ticked off. It's good to see familiar names on the sheet!
The Jalopy Journal
