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History NHRA Junior Stock

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by colesy, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 29,920

    loudbang
    Member


    Good to see a post from you again. I feared you had joined the bunch of original guys that never come into the HAMB anymore.

    NICE pair of 61's :)
     
  2. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 620

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Les Ritchey winning in any Ford is no surprise to me. He was legendary in these parts and renowned locally as a master tuner. Look for the "Performance Associates" decals on winning Fords during the early '60s.

    c
     
  3. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,754

    jnaki





    Hello,

    I just happen to be looking at some old Drag News papers from 1962. It was an article about the return of FUEL to Lion’s Dragstrip. I thought the Winternationals were held in February of every year, so I kept reading the articles. For some reason, the Winternationals of 1962 was not held then, but on March 10-11. Not at Pomona as years past, but at Fontana Raceway, around 18 miles farther East.

    So, to add to your collection of Winternational artifacts, this is the only information I was able to gather of those times a long time ago. It was in our last semester of our high school senior year and things were happening all over So Cal for us. The beach, mountains, Spring Break (Easter Vacation) surf trips to Baja, and preparing for the last months of school!!!

    Jnaki

    Hope they help in your search. It was nice re-reading the whole paper, but for us So Cal locals, any big time event always drew the locals. Only this time, we did not go to Fontana. Things were happening at Lion’s Dragstrip that was new and exciting.
    upload_2020-9-17_4-21-45.png
    upload_2020-9-17_4-21-57.png
    upload_2020-9-17_4-22-12.png
    upload_2020-9-17_4-22-27.png upload_2020-9-17_4-25-0.png

    @Dean Lowe
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
    Bowtie Coupe likes this.
  4. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 620

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    I believe that the March race at Fontana may have been an AHRA event, the "Winter Championship Drag Races." The references to that association are scattered through the posted article and I don't think that NHRA returned nitro to the drag strip until early 1963 although we commonly saw it in use at Fontana and San Gabriel, outside the NHRA sanction. According to some of the documentation I found on Wikipedia, the 1962 NHRA Winternationals was held at Pomona with Jim Nelson winning "Top Eliminator" and Don Nicholson winning "Stock Eliminator" over Dave Strickler. The other historical note for Stocker fans mentioned in the Wikepedia article was the fact that, at the 1962 NHRA Winternationals, Carol Cox was the first female class winner in NHRA history. I know her son, Steve Cox, who still races brackets in this area.
     
  5. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,754

    jnaki







    Hey C,
    You are right. The real NHRA Winternationals were held at Pomona a week later than the first week normal time period. I just needed to look at a different Drag News posting. But as I was going through the whole set of Drag News for March 1962, who could not argue with a headline like:

    upload_2020-9-17_10-14-30.png

    But, the correct Winternationals held in Pomona was on February 17-18, 1962. I was so enthralled that I was able to be reading the same year Drag News and saw that headline.

    Jnaki

    Thanks for pointing that error out and here is the correct information dated February 17-18, 1962.

    upload_2020-9-17_10-13-27.png
    upload_2020-9-17_10-13-44.png
     
  6. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 620

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

     
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  7. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 620

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    There are several familiar names on the list from both meets. If you have saved the Drag News papers all the way back to those days, your garage is a LOT bigger than mine. My hat is off to you for having the papers and the patience to dig through them!!

    c
     
  8. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,754

    jnaki





    Hey C,

    Thanks for thinking I am that "old school." All of our garages, except for one three car garage have been small two car garages with cabinets. There was no room to store magazines, let alone stacks of Drag News papers. Since the digital age, I have been reading the DVD version of the Drag News papers from 1958 to 64. We left drag racing after our accident and life style change in 1961. So, there is no need to have the next set of DVDs to 1971. We did have a smaller set, due to the fact that they show the big transition from the fabulous old days of competitive classes and the new NHRA classes that killed the little guy classes.

    But, if anyone is interested, there are places where anyone can buy a DVD set of scanned Drag News Newspapers from 1955-61, 62-66, and 67-71. Not all of the scans are super clear. When they were scanned, the scanners at the time were good. But, since then, they got more technical and were built well with plenty of adjustments.

    Jnaki

    It is too bad that someone does not use a new digital scanners to do all of the old Drag News copies. The scanned images would be "high tech" clear and it would be like being in the 50s-60s. But, then, that person would have to have the huge stack of old newspapers that have faded over the years. So, we make do with what we have been given to us.

    With digital copies, there is no need to have a paper copy of the daily news. Sorry to say to those who like holding a newspaper in their hands. (Black fingers and all...) That is way, "old school" and now fast fading for the newspaper staffs all over the country.

    We are those "Old Guys" teenagers thought they would never become. But, we have weathered well and have not become "hoarders." There was a time when we could pack up and load our stuff in the back of an El Camino and be off somewhere in a grand move. Those are days gone by.

    As far as stock car racing is concerned, these guys ruled the class competition with their good driving and techniques.
    1959 Lion's Dragstrip afternoon showcase.


    No numbers, no lettering, just plain old fast cars and great driving during the eliminations. PURE STOCK AS YOU CAN GET... Pop those hubcaps and go a lot faster...
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  9. WerbyFord
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 102

    WerbyFord
    Member

    jnaki,
    Do you have a current link for those Drag News DVD's?
    I have a set from 1955-1960, but when I go to their link it is long gone.

    Thanks for posting the 1962 Pomona, that saves me a lot of hunting.
    BTW B/SA has to be Van Vliet in a 63 Ford 390/330pi, likely running stock but high compression C3AE-C heads. That was the hottest year for the 390/330PI engine of all 5 years it existed. I grew up in a new 63 PI Merc, bounced in the back seat until I pulled the threads out of the vinyl. My dad didn't mind - it was an omen of good times to come.
     
  10. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,754

    jnaki




    https://wediditforlove.com/WDIFL-Gifts.html
    upload_2020-9-18_16-20-35.png

    Hey W,
    Here is the best link of any of the sites running ads for any Drag News on DVDs. It has the best information for the general public and for die hard drag racers. It is drag racing history on line.

    Jnaki
    https://wediditforlove.com/store-dragnews.html
    Buy all three editions and save money.
     
  11. WerbyFord
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 102

    WerbyFord
    Member

    View attachment 4825747
    Thanks! ok just ordered the whole set. That should fill in a few blanks.
    Trouble is, often (like 62 Pomona), they give just the car make, but not the year. I'm trying to guess the actual car-engine-trans combo so I can Gonkulate and compile which engine won what over the years. It can be a real challenge to guess the year, and then the engine - folks on here have helped, as well as knowing the history (and sometimes guessing a good combo by Gonkulating it). Folks on here have helped a lot.

    Here's an example of what I came up with for 62 Pomona - outright guesses are shaded pink, others pretty certain - car year, car model, engine. In the engines I often use h=hydraulic or m=mechanical in the center for cam type, or SD=Superduty, PI=Police-Interceptor, etc. Note there are a few real guesses here - comments/corrections welcome. I think I even found a Ford Y-Block winner! (Not the fancy blown F-code, but the Y-blocks that Normal People drive!) Red is Chevy, Dark Blue is Ford (ok I know they were Black until 1966), Orange is Mopar (none here!), Blue is Pontiac, Goldish is Olds, Green is Buick, etc. Your eye really sees who dominated the meet that way.
    Red text is for automatics, since ATF is red as anyone with a concrete driveway knows.

    Merget C/SA was one of the tougher guesses - there are THREE Pontiacs that are competitive and known winners in that class: 1958-370hd330-6v, 1960-389hd333-4v, and 1962-389h318-6v. The 1958 370hd330-6v seemed most popular on the west coast so I guessed that one but really no idea.
    Google is to no avail here. Any ideas?

    Hordan E/SA is also a wild guess. There are about 4 Ford combos that fit. The best looking one is the 57 Y-Block 312/245 but it could be others. EDIT yes it's a 57 Fairlane 2dr hardtop, with a 1960 Electra ragtop next to it as runner-up. Thanks again 1320fan


    EDIT: Thanks to some message help I updated this chart a bit. B/SA was in fact a 1961 Starliner, which at W/P=11.21 is too light to fit the class per TODAYS NHRA books online. My guess is that back then, the weight charts made the car heavier for an auto trans. Todays charts do so for 1960 and 1963 Fords but not 1961, 1962, or 1964 Fords. Go figure. But helpful forum member 1320fan found a picture of the B/SA winner so there it is, Starliner right on the fender.

    EDIT 3 October: A new version thanks again to 1320fan & Petersen archive. I listed a few of the R/U I found, figuring, they had to run near as good as the winner to get that "T" on the windshield. Of note: The D/S car was DQ - picture shows a Ventura which is too light for the class! Is that why? How did it get IN the class? Also in C/SA, errors in the NHRA file for the 1961 Ventura so some doubts there too.

    View attachment 4820845

    View attachment 4825762

    View attachment 4825882

    6202pom201003.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
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  12. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 29,920

    loudbang
    Member

    More on the Bridenthal batch of stockers posted by hemidav in the vintage thread.

    hemidav.JPG
     
  13. Terry Bell
    Joined: Apr 21, 2016
    Posts: 166

    Terry Bell

    Hey W.....check your HAMB site ! I replied about the 68-69 CJ heads.
     
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  14. WerbyFord
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 102

    WerbyFord
    Member

    Quite the lineup, nice pic!
    As noted the 260/164hp-2v had a few national wins which surprised me when I started this research.
    The LWG set Ford's 1st NHRA national record, Brannan at 12.42, and Martin should have had an S/S win with it as the apparent winner was then DQ.
    The D/S=11.30 390/330hp-PI, the engine I grew up with, was a good runner but faced some tough competition in that D/S class:
    283m283-FI 57 Chev
    348m320-4v 60 Chev
    and even from within the family, the one car not in the picture
    289m271hp 63 Fairlane
    They all won their share and Gonkulate several carlengths quicker than the 390m330-PI.

    Ford figured out that some of its FE torque monsters, notably the 427 LoRiser, got more wins with automatics behind them (although it was never offered with an auto behind it!!). I recently did some intake manifold testing and found the old LoRiser aluminum intake to be the winner over some "better" intakes down low, where many races are won.
     
  15. TheMerch
    Joined: Dec 29, 2019
    Posts: 21

    TheMerch
    Member

    Dave Stiller lives out west today between California and Arizona.....
     
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  16. wuga
    Joined: Sep 21, 2008
    Posts: 353

    wuga
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Quick response. Colesy asked that question 11 year ago. By the way, Colesy has a great facebook page on nostalgia drag racing.
    Warren
     
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  17. Kentuckian
    Joined: Nov 26, 2008
    Posts: 743

    Kentuckian
    Member

    WerbyFord said............

    The D/S=11.30 390/330hp-PI, the engine I grew up with, was a good runner but faced some tough competition in that D/S class:
    283m283-FI 57 Chev
    348m320-4v 60 Chev
    289m271hp 63 Fairlane
    They all won their share and Gonkulate several car lengths quicker than the 390/330np-PI.

    Starting line photo.
    63 Fairlane vs Galaxie start.jpg

    Finish line photo.
    upload_2020-9-22_11-7-38.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Shain
    Joined: Jun 2, 2016
    Posts: 33

    Shain
    Member
    from Omaha

    Les Ritchey ...about 1966 Les Ritchy mustang.jpg

    IF...I remember correctly from the good old days, and I could be wrong....I'm pretty sure he was at a Div. 5 points meet at Omaha Dragway in 1966 or 67. It was in his silver EX 427 SOHC Mustang. A/FX ?
    I was in the staging lanes for time trials , and he was about 2 cars ahead in my lane...I was directly behind him a couple of cars.
    I still remember him launch. The Mustang just exploded off the line. The front lifted high, and the back squatted down and the slicks never spun...just boom ! ...and he was gone. One of the most impressive things I had seen back then at that point in time, from a stock bodied car.

    It may have been some one else, but pretty sure it was Ritchey. Must have been touring, or going to another event, getting extra points which you could do back then.
     
  19. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 620

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Les was a local legend whose life ended way too early. <https://www.newspapers.com/clip/49471128/les-ritchey-dies-in-crash/> One of my close friends and a notable Junior Stock racer in his own right, Val Hedworth, grew up in this neighborhood and has told me about sitting in his elementary school classroom, listening to the sounds emanating from the Performance Associates dyno shop on San Bernardino Road in Covina. Brings to mind the various axioms about the development of young minds...

    c
     
  20. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 29,920

    loudbang
    Member


    LOL that is what got me. Sitting outside school during recess when I was 10-11 I heard that glorious SOUND. After school let out I jumped on my bike and pedaled to D&E Garage where to my amazement was THE BLOWN HEARSE making that sound. They happened to be working on the blown 348 with open headers and I was blown way.

    Made myself a pest for several more times just watching and listening. They finally noticed me and I because the "hey kid" like hey kid grab me that 1/2 open end or hey kid go buy me a coke. And I never looked back all because of that SOUND
     
  21. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 29,920

    loudbang
    Member

  22. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 29,920

    loudbang
    Member

  23. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,295

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    ^^^^I like that 57 Ford, and I'm a Chevrolet guy!^^^^. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  24. Rob Santorsa
    Joined: Sep 29, 2020
    Posts: 1

    Rob Santorsa

    Jerry Santorsa was my uncle. Did he own the car when this picture was taken? It kind of looks like my Father Bobby walking past it there on the right.
     
  25. montclaire
    Joined: Jul 24, 2007
    Posts: 501

    montclaire
    Member

    That's Jerry in the blue jacket. I'm not sure who owned the car at that point but I think Joe Super is still around. My understanding is that Joe bought the car from Timmy Richards after Timmy went with Gould. There was a partnership worked out with the Santorsa brothers, with the car eventually going to Jerry. This may have been when the name changed briefly to Santorsa and Graziano (Al?). After that I believe Jerry went with Joe Amato and gave up driving. I should have asked more questions when he was still around.

    Rob, I remember your dad working on the engine from that car when they still had the shop on Gibson. Whoever bought it didn't know what a manual reverse valve body was and drove home in "D." The pushrods looked like candy canes. I was there buying the 73 Challenger they had for sale. Jerry took me for a test drive and pulled the front wheels on Wyoming Avenue. Good times.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  26. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 29,920

    loudbang
    Member

  27. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 4,074

    1934coupe
    Member

    One of my"wish to own" cars^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Pat
     
  28. Terry Bell
    Joined: Apr 21, 2016
    Posts: 166

    Terry Bell

    Me 2....1934 Coupe !
     
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  29. WerbyFord
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 102

    WerbyFord
    Member

    Weidner Pontiac's Wolf & McClelland car has the most wins/records of any Super Duty in my database so far. With a W/P=9.05 lb/hp, the 421/405-8v automatic was right on the class break from 1968-up when the W/P=8.70 class went away and it got to run in the new W/P=9.00 class instead.

    Not uncommon the more I dig into this, there are some issues with the NHRA guides here. The NHRA guide does not correct for added weight of the Roto / SlimJim automatic, so it says W/P=8.97 for ALL 1962 SuperDuty Cat aluminum hardtops. And yet, both the manual and automatic ran in the W/P=9.00 class, even though an all aluminum car would be a few pounds too light. The steel SuperDuty Cats show W/P=9.20 in NHRA, again no correction for auto trans, so they would be plenty heavy enough.

    In reality, production of the 1962 SuperDuty Cats, all 163 factory cars, was a mix of steel and aluminum parts. Some had just aluminum fenders or hood, some were all aluminum, some all steel. Did NHRA just say, "ok, run whatever blend you want and as long as YOUR CAR meets the W/P=9.00 weight break, we'll call it good". I don't know, I was still tuning our Model A Ford & riding my hot rod bicycle around the neighborhood with a baseball card flapping in the spokes.
     
  30. carcruse
    Joined: Aug 20, 2007
    Posts: 796

    carcruse
    Member

    Wyandotte, Mi
    Probably raced at Detroit Dragway.

    wyan 59 chevy.jpg
     

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