Chuck, This is your quote from way back on pg312, but I was hunting for info about Cossey & from your words thought you might know this: Did Cossey ever drive a 1962 Chevy? (2 records in 1962 et and mph, and 1962 Indy win sheets say he did - unless they're all typos) If so, was it really a 327/300 Impala 4ds (about the only 62 Chev that fits class at W/P=11.93). His later 348/315 1959 El Camino also fits the 11.90 class but all 3 of these sheets specifically say "62 Chev". I know about Cossey's later 66 Biscayne L72 but cant find any detail on a 62 Chev he might have won with. Any idea?
Yes, it did. I've frequently pondered that decision and this is about the best explanation that I can offer. The whole "rebel" phase of my life represents a period of significant turmoil that developed during my teen years and partially explains why I chose to seek a life nearly 1800 miles away from the rest of the family. In my view, Dad was never very tolerant of what he considered to be my wayward attitudes during adolescence, not solely because of an early obsession with cars and expressing that obsession though competition but also because of my insistence on "doing it my way" across the entire spectrum of life. The search for resolution of those issues eventually led me out of town as soon as it became feasible. I was the family "rebel" and I tended to emphasize it whenever possible. Even a decade after I came to California the relationship hadn't improved all that much and I suppose that the paint job was emblematic of the continuing effort to prove a point. That, in addition to the fact that most of “cool” Junior Stockers had some sort of paint scheme that was identifiable from a tower view. Stripes, checkerboard designs, and other approaches had already been used so I went with the way I felt. For what it's worth, Dad and I eventually patched things up during the last fifteen years or so of his life and succeeded in establishing a truce that endured to the end. Thank you for asking. c
Werby, Tony and I talked about the possibility of the Cossey/'62 combination today. Neither of us can remember either a small block or a '62 Chevy driven by Wiley but that should not be taken as the end of the hunt for the truth. Tony also definitely remembers the '59 Biscayne and the El Camino as well as the '66 427 car but the possibility of another car is certainly a real one. There were at least three or four tracks in operation around SoCal during that era and not all of them were locked into the NHRA system. San Gabriel and Fontana operated pretty much independently of the sanctioning organization, Mickey Thompson managed both Lions and Fontana at different times through the '60s. Mickey seemed march to the beat of a different drum much of the time and the details of organization might depend on the short-term circumstances. Dave Kempton was the tech at San Gabriel before it closed and he ran NHRA classes but I really don't remember the class structure beyond the fact that we ran A/SA and, if the car count was exactly right, we could qualify to run in the S/S eliminator although winning it would have been a true long shot. Regulars in the S/S class at San Gabriel included Gas Ronda, Les Ritchey, Dick Landy, Bill Golden, the Simerly brothers (Dave and Bob) and a host of others. If I recall correctly, stick and automatics ran together and it was common to have a 32 car field of really strong players on any given weekend. Sorry that we couldn't nail it down! c
Chuck, Clearly from all of your writing you are humble person (well imo) but you know we (again it could be just “I” but I doubt it) would love a few stories of getting put in the S/S class and running against the big sponsored guys. Were you running the ‘57 then? Regards, Randy PS: As it has already been said I am very thankful to Ryan, the staff of volunteers (which I finally got to meet one in person last week!! (Moriarty)) for giving us this forum to read and learn what early drag racing was like from racers and the tech side as well. Ty Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
There was never much of a stir in our corner about running the A/SA car in the S/S class. It happened rarely when there weren't enough S/S cars to fill the field. We knew that the '63 Belvedere station wagon was not competitive running against the regulars in S/S who were competing with light-weight 427 high-riser Galaxies, high compression/aluminum-nosed Mopars, or aluminum Z11 Impalas. It seemed like there were more Dodges and Plymouths that either Fords or Chevys at San Gabriel but that might only be a factor of my fading memory. At the time, we weren't all that aware of the factory influence because the sponsored cars carried dealer names such as Glen Thomas Dodge, Milne Brothers Chrysler/Plymouth, Downtown Ford, Service Chevrolet, or a common label such as "Orange County Dodge Dealers" association. It usually took a low 12 second pass to win S/S at San Gabriel on an ordinary summer Saturday night. The station wagon (426", low compression wedge) was good for only about 12.80 or 12.90 at that point so we were just "filler." Typically, we would have been allowed to run for the A/SA class trophy but then get in line for S/S Eliminator. We were "early twenty-somethings" playing in a big sandbox and ready to tackle any challenge. Ron Mandella was a good driver but that was not enough to cause a ripple at the time. The drivers who would eventually become widely known in A/FX and S/S (Ronda, Ritchey, Landy, Bill (Maverick) Golden, Earl Wade, Bill Hanyon, and others were just regular guys with mostly local reputations at that time. Don Nicholson had already relocated to Georgia, Hayden Profitt seldom came all the way to San Gabriel, and I don't recall the "Melrose Missle" from the Bay Area showing up except at the Winternationals. Others such as Dave and Bob Simerly, a few cars locally sponsored by Horsepower Engineering Headers, and others by Blair's Speed Shop in Pasadena often made up the bulk of the field. It seems as though there were plenty of quick Mopars in this area. An A/SA car running in S/S was a novelty but not a threat. In response to the last question regarding my participation at that point in time, I would assure you that I was never a player as a driver during those early days. I was around the track and the cars during 1963 and thereafter but I eventually ran my own car in AHRA and it would have not have been legal under Junior Stock rules until after it was reconfigured in 1971. That year, I entered the Winternationals and won my class but lost in the first round of Stock Eliminator. By 1972 the Purge had been implemented and everyone's attention was occupied with the switch from Stock to Super Stock.
A few months I recreated all the decals for the Ronca Bros. car that they are either building or rebuilding. Nice people to deal. Back in the day that was the car to try and beat if you could. Jimbo
Does anyone know if Larry is still living and if so what his contact info is? Had some questions on his car which I know was sold to Cec Hardy in Vancouver.
I agree with Randy. Always love to see pictures of the old Pontiacs. Randy, how are things coming with your build? Have you started a website for it?
All I have found so far is a suitable engine. I’m still looking for a car and I have a lead currently on a 62 Cat down in Virginia. I have some pictures but no word yet if they’re actually selling it or not. Thanks for asking and I will post an update if I buy it. Below is a picture of the tri-power 389 that I picked up a couple months ago. Regards, Randy Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
N.E Dragway's version of Jr. Stock.. Kind of a homogulated ( new word) version of AHRA and track rules/ records. I think this is Professor Vic Santos.
What I'm curious about in the 64 GTO vs 64 Galaxie picture is what/when/where? The Pontiac says A/S, but A/S was usually high-powered stuff. The 64 GTO 389/348 comes in at W/P=9.50 for the hardtop and 9.44 for the sedan, so maybe its a sedan in the picture? I cant tell. That would put it in the A/S=8.70-9.50 range in 1964, 1965, or 1967, but at the bottom of the class which is weird. The 64 Galaxie Ragtop, that thing weighs as much as a greyhound bus, and the only thing that would get it lighter than W/P=9.50 would be if it had a 427 HiRiser factored to 460hp under the hood. Really???? Then again I cant quite tell if the big Galaxie says A/S or not on the car. Either way it's pretty rare to see a Galaxie Convertible running!
It's exactly this kind of conundrum that keeps this thread alive! Plenty of people bought cars for reasons other than how they fit into Stock classes and then decided to take them to the track. Hell, I did it a time or two, as well. I quickly found out just how badly a 406 cubic inch '62 Galaxie 500XL would fare against a 409 Biscayne two-door coupe on the track. Those of us who became infected with "the disease for which there is no cure" learned to accommodate the Classification Guide and those who escaped its clutches became regular citizens. They're probably driving Teslas and Prisi (is that the plural of Prius?) as we speak! c
WF, Both GTO‘s pictured are coupes. Funny when I looked at the picture I never even thought about the classification I thought about how rare and cool a stick galaxy convertible would be today! Randy Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Couple more Pontiacs This one is a Hardtop GTO in E/S with other number and letters. Looks like not NHRA as the one on the far right has a bunch of letters for class
LB, That bottom pic looks to be a period shot with a new '65 GTO. I can't make out what's under the hood very well. Does not look like the 4 bbl air cleaner (which I have a few or the tripower setup either. Maybe I'm seeing the HVAC box and it has A/C. I don't know but that is a cool pic and will go in my phone picture library! Thanks for posting it LB! Randy
It's tough to decipher the coding on the windshield but the license plate on the GTO appears to have been issued in Maine. I believe that the competition number for that car at that event was "45?" The class, clearly was E/S and Werby should be able to tell us what class a 4-barrel GTO would have run in through the years under the NHRA classification system. I'm also guessing that the dial-in for that pass was 12.35 nearly a full second quicker than the national record in E/S in 1964. By 1970, the class winner in E/S at Indy was Richard Charbonneau at 12.37 and he was a heavy hitter, so a 12.35 would have been a very healthy pass for anyone earlier than that. Further, the M/SA Oldsmobile in the background appears to be a later-than-1964 model, (early 70s?). Also, I have a vague recollection of the introduction of those elaborate truss-like lower control arms having been introduced during the mid-70s. They enjoyed a brief moment of popularity amongst the street racers until they figured out that the secret to making the coil sprung chassis work consistently was to raise the rear mounting point of the upper control arm while simply boxing the lower control arm to provide rigidity. Most of the thousands of pictures we've been privileged to view contain multiple clues to the evolution of the sport. c
I think that is a test drive for Hot Rod Mag of the new model. In the old days it would be easy to find on Hot Rod but recently links to old articles just lead back to the current Hot Rod news page.
Pretty sure that's an AHRA classification due to the E/S "2";. the two is the give-a-way. Exactly what it means, I have no idea as we don't have/had an AHRA track. Well actually, both Seattle International Raceway and Bremerton Raceway went AHRA for ONE season in the 70's; Bremerton Raceway because we did't have guard rails on our 150 foot wide, 5300 foot long, condemned airport runway. Our President of the Handler's Racing Association got us aligned with Orville Moe/Spokane Raceway-AHRA until we had guard rails. I know there was a LOT of confusion at Seattle with the AHRA classes, even with the Bracket Classes. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
^^^^Who really knows for sure?^^^ The writing is worse than mine. Could be the dial in for sure. Was't Green Valley AHRA, at least at some point in time? I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
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