The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by colesy, Aug 12, 2007.
Thanks for the info! Randy
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Monster Mash II
I watched these two guys match race the same cars at Manville, NJ in 1961. Met both of them in later years....very humble for sure.
LB, great action shot of a '57 150. I'm gonna pretend it's a 2 door wagon.
I'm going to guess that photo was taken at Van Isle Drag Way, on Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
But on looking deeper, the 1957-61 283 Chevy ran the 3733431 cam, with duration 250-250-111 advertised and .400 .400 lift. That’s not very “fat” – how much “cheater duration” could fit inside that envelope?
Then in 1962-66 came the same cam, .400 .400 lift, but this cam #3732798, was advertised at 300-300-111 duration. LOTS of “room” in there to grind a cheater profile. I’m assuming both cams were near identical, about 186-186 duration (factory, non-cheater) at .050” lobe.
So I’d expect the 1962-66 hydraulic Mouse motors to walk all over the 1957-61 hydraulic Mouses with the tighter-spec 250-250-111 cam. But we know that’s not how it turned out! I bet you could fit at least 40 degrees of extra .050 duration inside that 300-300 advertised cam and still meet the NHRA “stock” spec?
I wonder if, at some point, the bigger-spec 1962-66 300-300 duration cam became the “replacement” cam for the 1957-61 cam, so then those cars (1957-61) could run a fatter profile too? Otherwise how would a “cheater” cam fit inside that little 250-250 duration envelope?[/QUOTE]
The 57-61 and 62-66 camshafts you refer to are one in the same. The part number on the camshaft, from GM was 3733431 but the number cast into the cam at the #4 bearing surface was 3732798.
Most of the early Chevy cams had a part number which was one number lower than the number "cast" on the camshaft. The famous 350hp hydraulic cam was part number"151" but the actual number on the cam itself was 152, same for 57 solid cam 097 part number and 098 cam number. I remember when we got out "cheater" or "rate of lift" cam at the '69 Winternationals it was said to be about 300 degrees. Without even degreeing it in at the track we picked up 3/10, but not enough to come close to "Tension".
Well that picture of Terrible Tangerine raises a few fuelie questions for me (never had one).
As I've heard it, the 1957 fuelie cars just had an "air cleaner" and took in warm underhood air.
Here's an example, sold for $170,000 at Sotheby's (well, la-dee-frickin-da) so you'd think they got the restoration right- no cold air for 1957 even on the Vette.
Starting in 1958 a big flex cold-air duct was added (for the Vet for sure, maybe the big Chevy too?)
So was that nice cold air duct NHRA legal for the 1957 cars? 250hp and 283hp?
We also ran Fuel injection on that same car. It was a 250hp. NHRA didn't know much about these cars so we were able to take liberties in "gray" areas. For sure, the early passenger cars had an air hose that let to an insert that had a clamp around it to hold it to the center radiator mounting bolt, yes, under hood air, for all FI applications. Later in the year GM brought out a cold air scoop that mounted on the radiator support, but only on the 283hp. They even made a larger 5 inch air scoop and corresponding air cleaner, for the 283hp "Black widows" and other racers. Yes I have both, that came out of a noted racer at the time, who worked at the Chevy dealership, maybe in Gardena, because that is where he raced before the Corvair fell on him.
Buck Wheatley and his brothers doing what they do best!!!
Never heard they went all the way in Canada like 56sedandelivery posted.
That picture of the Red 55 delivery was taken at Cecil County Md. I think the picture of the 57 fender and hood before that one is what 56 Sedan Delivery is referring to ????????????????
We also ran Fuel injection on that same car. It was a 250hp. NHRA didn't know much about these cars so we were able to take liberties in "gray" areas. For sure, the early passenger cars had an air hose that let to an insert that had a clamp around it to hold it to the center radiator mounting bolt, yes, under hood air, for all FI applications. Later in the year GM brought out a cold air scoop that mounted on the radiator support, but only on the 283hp. They even made a larger 5 inch air scoop and corresponding air cleaner, for the 283hp "Black widows" and other racers. Yes I have both, that came out of a noted racer at the time, who worked at the Chevy dealership, maybe in Gardena, because that is where he raced before the Corvair fell on him.[/QUOTE]
Hi Tom, any pictures of the black and white 150 at the tri5 nationals???
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posted by Uncle Albert in the trophy girls thread
That comment was actually directed at the P/S, 57 Delivery, post 15333, but it did't take the quote (probably my fingers). Short lived track with an uphill shutdown on Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada, and that Delivery would have been in the tower lane. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
Look who stopped out to the shop today! Recognize these two? Gordon now runs a little diner and pool hall in Lanesboro MN. Great visit and I just love hearing the old Jr. Stocker stories. Today and back in the day photo.
Nothing new on here for about a week......I guess everyone died !
My internet connection shit the bed and I just got back online LOL
Will be back to posting tomorrow after I get caught up on all the posts I miss while among the missing.
I'm glad. Sorry your system went down. I might lose mine next week if the hurricane hits the middle of Fla. I sure miss your pictures when you miss a day or two.
It's not just this thread that seems dead.
Interest in old cars in general is slowly going away and I hate to see it happening.
Not to worry this thread has slowed down before nd it is a holiday weekend.
In trying to compile some stats, I am at a loss to find the class results for stock Corvettes at the 1960 NHRA U.S. Nationals at Detroit. I am particularly interested in D/SP and E/SP. I have some stuff on the modified sports but nothing on the sports class wins. Anyone??
Jim, whatever limited information exists about that event is most likely contained within the race report that would have been published in Hot Rod Magazine in the October or November issue of 1960. If you can locate those issues, you should find a list of class winners from Detroit.
My interpretation of the NHRA Rulebook for 1960 suggests that the winners of the Stock Sports classes would have been combined with those of Gas Coupe/Sedans and Street Roadsters to comprise the category of Little Eliminator. I'm fairly sure that the handicapping system that came into use with the "christmas-tree" starting line was not present in 1960 so the Little Eliminator would probably have been a "heads-up" affair and that would seem to have been borne out since the eventual winner of Little Eliminator was George Montgomery who was probably driving an A/G or A/GS car. An essentially stock Corvette in D/SP or E/SP would not have lasted very long in that field.
I might have a copy of the appropriate Hot Rod Magazine with that race report but, if I do, it's buried amongst a substantial horde of publications of that era and it will be difficult for me to dig it out. If you can find it anywhere else, that might be your best bet for coming up with the class winners. If you can't, I might be able to eventually find the appropriate issues given enough time.
Chuck, I have a pretty decent library of old magazines of the era including Hot Rod and Car Craft but for whatever reason I cannot seem to find the class winners for D/SP or E/SP. 1960 was the first year for the NHRA to breakdown the sports classes from the modified cars. From 1958-1960 there really was no "stock" sports class for Corvettes but I assume there had to have been a few "stock" Vettes that ran. I agree that they would not stand a chance in eliminator but I would like to find at least one or two guys that competed in D/SP especially since that would be most of the higher horsepower cars running at the time.E/SP would be lower horsepower cars that were several years old already.
I may have to go back through my stuff or keep looking but just thought there may be someone that had the stats available. Thanks Jim
Chuck no need to dig out your magazines as I just went back and reread both the coverage in Hot Rod and Car Craft, that I have. I may have to dig a bit deeper. They both spell out the class winners but mention nothing of the D/SP winners. Hot Rod does address the topic in a sense in that they said that the stock and sports car runs and eliminations had been wiped off the slate on Thursday night due to bad weather (rain mainly), making traction near impossible.
I had read that Don Gist was to run his 1959 283/290 in D/SP and with his determination I imagine he at least tried. Just curious and am not willing to fold my tent just yet.
Maybe that class had no entries?
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