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History NHRA Junior Stock

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by colesy, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. This was the former Marsh and Brock car.
    If anybody has any information about it's where abouts Gary Brock would like to talk to them.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. You are right Chuck, I found this post from 9 years ago.

     
  3. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 24,545

    loudbang
    Member

  4. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 24,545

    loudbang
    Member

    posted by Al G in the vintage thread

    Brown Bomber Buick in the background

    al g vint brown bomber.jpg
     
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  5. old chevy luver
    Joined: Aug 7, 2013
    Posts: 72

    old chevy luver
    Member
    from sd

    Pics and stories are cool.chuck Norton,45 yrs ,hell I can't remember 45 minutes ago. Does anyone have any idea what floor shift was used for the old iron glides,what was the popular brand and or style. WP_20190402_005.jpg WP_20190402_005.jpg had put the 57 on hold to many dirt cars getting finished up. Everything back from powder coat at the same time. So set body back on the frame and in the back room for awhile. But that's the aggregation 2.0. Looks small next to a late model. Thanks for any info.
     
  6. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 567

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    OCL, long-term memories are a mixed bag. Sometimes I'd trade a few of those 45-year jolts for something a little more useful like always remembering to cancel my turn signal after changing lanes or zipping up on the way out of the restroom. Guess we all have our individual crosses to bear?

    Anyway, your question about the PG shifters triggered a a whole new spectrum of recollections. I drove a number of cars equipped with cast iron Glides but my own car could use an aluminum glide from the outset so these flashbacks could be a little sketchy. I can't pin a name to the company that produced the original item but the name Spark-o-Matic comes to mind. Their manual shifters were fairly common in the early street scene and the design of the mechanism was reminiscent of that era. I do recall that they used a solid-rod linkage instead of a cable and that the handle looked a bit like the Lokar retro-shifters available today.

    From a purely sentimental standpoint, some of the early automatic trans floor shifters that I came in contact with were borderline dangerous. Just about all of them incorporated some sort of neutral safety switch but I don't recall that even those were regularly checked during safety inspection around here until later in the '70s. As I definitely recall, the detent system on the cars I drove was fairly rudimentary and the driver had to be careful in executing the L to D shift because it was possible to slip through drive into neutral and and. in extreme cases, even into reverse with typically catastrophic results.

    I recall some relatively frantic experimenting when the rule regarding a positive detent stop system between gears was enforced because most new rules took effect at the Winternationals and it was common for the racers to be caught in tech with something that was inadequate for its intended purpose or simply overlooked. Most aftermarket shifters were equipped with adequate systems but it took some experimenting and adjusting in order to smoothly transition from one to another and the couple of weeks for testing time between the World Finals and Winternationals really compressed the changeover.

    For some, the Hurst Quarter Stick was adequate but it incorporated a quirk that required the use of two hands to disengage an interlock under some circumstances and those circumstances usually arose at the worst possible time. At that point, I chose to use a B&M ratchet shifter that incorporated a Morse cable linkage. When they worked, they were great and the ratchet served well but the mechanism was fairly complicated. After a couple of years, it came to the point that the B&M trailer no longer carried replacement parts for the two-speed version, so I transitioned into arguably the most reliable, simplest-to-use shifter that ever came my way, the TurboAction Cheetah. I think that the Cheetah concept and design had been around for quite a while by that time but I was late to the party in any case.

    To address your original question: I doubt that (m)any of the original shifters that were used to race the cast-iron Glides are still around. If they are, their use in competition would be problematic. If you need one for cosmetic purposes, I'd look at the Lokar line of products and be ready to do some adapting and modifying. If you're building dirt track cars, fabricating and adapting are probably right up your alley.

    c
     
  7. JollyGreenGiant
    Joined: Mar 7, 2009
    Posts: 73

    JollyGreenGiant
    Member

    We ran a cast iron Glide in our hardtop the last year the car was legal to run in Stock Eliminator (1971). We made the shifter from a cheap 3 speed shifter and it may have been a Spark-O-Matic. It had no detents but we were able to fabricate one that worked fine but the gear selection was reversed. Park was to the rear against the seat. Oh yea, it had no neutral safety switch but no one ever checked that. Low and drive were on the same detent so with a click of my finger you went from low to drive. Here's a picture of it when we found the car after it sat for 40 years in 2011. It looks way better now that the 4 speed is back where it belongs. 020.JPG IMG_1042.JPG
     
  8. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 567

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    JGG, your post really made my Thursday! Apparently, I'm not the only one who harbors the kinds of arcane automotive images that usually surface in my consciousness between 2 and 4 AM. It was great that our recollections of the shifters are similar but it's even better that I'm not the only one who remembers when no one checked things like neutral safety switches. I was waiting for Travis Miller to call me to task for mentioning that one but, as long as you remember it the same way, it doesn't make me look like a complete tool!
    "Stockers to the lanes!!!"
     
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  9. old chevy luver
    Joined: Aug 7, 2013
    Posts: 72

    old chevy luver
    Member
    from sd

    Thanks for replying. I think there was a spark-o-matic decal on the car. But what I remember it was above seat level and had a bend in it with line lock button just under the black knob.was about a 3/8 or 7/16 shaft. If that helps. I really thought finding stuff would be easy,but its not. Lokar looks similar to what I remember,but we're they around back then.
     
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  10. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,581

    Jimbo17
    Member

    Maybe your Spark-O-Matic decal looked liked one of these. Sparkomatic Corporation.jpg
    Jimbo

    Spark O Matic Equipped.jpg
     
  11. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 567

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    I believe that Lokar is a relative newcomer to the industry when compared to Speed-O-Matic but they, to my knowledge, they are the only name company aggressively marketing nostalgic shifters at this point. I recall swapping out the shaft on my shifter when it was in the Corvette because it was too long. It has been so long ago that I have no recollection of how I attached the substitute shaft to the shifting mechanism but the original length made it reminiscent of the shifter in one of the Ed Roth cartoons That transmission and shifter were eventually swapped from the Corvette, to a Camaro, to a Nova, and eventually to an Impala before it was done in by the requirement of a more positive system of detents and neutral safety switches.

    Jimbo, as I recall, there was no contingency associated to the shifter in those days. I believe that Hurst paid for use of a manual transmission shifter but, basically, if it didn't carry contingency $$, it didn't get advertised.

    c
     
  12. KickinAsphalt
    Joined: Jul 1, 2011
    Posts: 131

    KickinAsphalt
    Member
    from Pa

    Keep it comming you guys kick arse!
     
  13. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,581

    Jimbo17
    Member

    Hooker Headers I believe was one of the first companies that started paying racers to use their headers back in the mid 60's and that really started to change things for sure.
    I know one racer who used Stahl Headers but switched to Hooker Headers because of the money they offered him.

    Jimbo
     
  14. JollyGreenGiant
    Joined: Mar 7, 2009
    Posts: 73

    JollyGreenGiant
    Member

    Not only did Hooker pay money if you won they were giving away free headers to a lot of the better running cars. We benefited from that with two sets from them. The first set is on the car today and the adjustable set was sold when the car was retired after the 1971 season. I could kick myself for selling them but little did I know we would get the car back 40 some years later. 11892147_1008388095847917_1279794281393925924_n.jpg
     
  15. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 567

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    An early proponent of that strategy in Division 7 was Doug Thorley ("Headers by Doug," in the early days). At that time Doug's shop was on Whittier Boulevard in East Los Angeles so it was a natural stop for me on the way home from work at least a couple of days per week. Doug began by offering a free jacket to anyone who set a national record and mentioned his name on the listing in either NHRA or AHRA. Orange "Header's by Doug" jackets, complete with the driver's name embroidered on the upper left lapel, proliferated throughout the pits at Lions, San Gabriel, Irwindale, and Pomona. He, too, would frequently come up with a "promotional" set of headers for the cars that performed well. At that time, among the other prominent header companies in this region were Jardine, Belanger Brothers, and Horsepower Engineering. By the end of the Junior Stock era, Hooker had begun to cut into his business fairly steadily and Stahl headers were on a few cars, but, by that time, Doug had moved on into funny cars and more exotic creations. I think that he sold the business, re-bought it, and sold it again through the years. It was a great time to be circulating in this sport!!
     
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  16. vinfab
    Joined: Apr 18, 2006
    Posts: 139

    vinfab
    Member

    I found this photo in my files after reading about the Marsh and Brock 210 sedan above. Can anybody fill in the details on this one. Did it come before or after the sedan? 57js1.jpg
     
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  17. straightaxle65
    Joined: Oct 13, 2007
    Posts: 533

    straightaxle65
    Member

    I had the good fortune of acquiring an original Doug Thorley jacket a couple years ago. The best part is that it fits me!
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 567

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Cool!

    Your picture motivated me to dig into the back closet and locate mine. These were fairly common in Division 7 during the '60s and '70s.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. old chevy luver
    Joined: Aug 7, 2013
    Posts: 72

    old chevy luver
    Member
    from sd

    Speaking of headers. Acp headers told me in a email,. they are making Stahl headers with same equipment and design. I guess they bought his equipment. They said they can make the fenderwell headers used back in Jr stock. 1 1/2-1 7/8 primary
     
  20. alphabet soup
    Joined: Jan 8, 2011
    Posts: 1,335

    alphabet soup
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As far as I know...they bought all of the G.M. jigs. A couple of friends of mine bought all the Mopar stuff. But I am not sure what happened to the Ford or other stuff. Gene.
     
  21. There is a Spark-O-Matic in the delivery I have.
    It does have some adjustable positive stops. If you look you can see them(2 screws and nuts in the slot on the far side).
    I did add a safety switch although it is in the park position only.

     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  22. straightaxle65
    Joined: Oct 13, 2007
    Posts: 533

    straightaxle65
    Member

    Are your friends making Mopar headers with the old jigs?
     
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  23. straightaxle65
    Joined: Oct 13, 2007
    Posts: 533

    straightaxle65
    Member

    Regarding rear tires for Stock classes? In a 1969 NHRA rule book it says the rear tire must have a minimum of 2 full circumstance grooves, any compound and a maximum 7" inch tread width.
    In a 1974 NHRA rule book it states, street tires with full tread pattern required. "Cheater slicks will not be allowed"

    I figured by 74 they were allowing 9" slicks but this states no slicks at all! What's up with this?
     
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  24. 270283
    Joined: Jun 11, 2006
    Posts: 392

    270283
    Member

    I think it was 1972 when Stock morphed into more of a Pure Stock class. It only lasted a few years if I remember correctly, which is highly unlikely anymore.
     
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  25. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 567

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Although it's not generally permitted to discuss "modern" topics on the H.A.M.B., I'll risk mentioning that one of the elements of the Great Purge of '71 was an effort to remove the word "cheater" from the lexicon of racers. During the first year, only cars made before 1960 could compete in Stock, treaded street tires (no "cheater" slicks) were required, no headers were allowed, cars had to be driven into the track under their own power, only factory camshafts (no "cheater" cams) were to be accepted, plus a few other elements that I'm sure I've forgotten. Those efforts began to evaporate fairly quickly although some of them endured longer than others. While I don't remember in what order they evaporated, the ban on headers was one of the first to go. (Manufacturer pressures?). Others fell by the wayside and were forgotten. Tow bars came back and trailers weren't far behind. Camshafts were pretty much unenforceable from the outset, in part because of the complexity of checking EVERY car torn down with a regard to camshaft lift, duration, and overlap, open/closed valve spring pressure, etc. Most (but not all) tech guys of that time could meet that challenge. Some of the stories that that we could relate in regard to things seen in teardown would astound you and duration checking using a #2 lead pencil and a roll of masking tape usually leads my hit parade of unforgettable moments. The tire thing was less of an immediate problem because M&H quickly developed a 12" wide, fully treaded tire. with an extremely soft compound and a short rollout. See the picture of one of my cars that I ran in 1975 with the wide M&H tire in spite of the fact that I could have run a 9" true slick:
    '66 Nova tire @ Irwindale copy.jpg

    I didn't change over the tires to 9" slicks in 1974 like some others because the tire worked well with my 283/Powerglide combination and the short rollout really helped my gear ratio.

    There's a really long answer to a succinct question but once the barn door is opened, the horses run in all directions!
     
  26. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,075

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    7F42961F-E51D-429C-8C67-5B40F9B742CC.jpeg 0B71DC8B-C8AE-40D4-B2A9-C61B0452F446.jpeg 1BC3D22B-045F-46AA-8540-BAA778CA7422.jpeg I believe these are what were acceptable:
     
  27. straightaxle65
    Joined: Oct 13, 2007
    Posts: 533

    straightaxle65
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    First of all Chuck, that's a cool picture of your Chevy 2. Gotta love post cars.

    Second, please take another risk and tell us the pencil and masking tape story! Inquiry minds want to know!
     
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  28. Down South Racer
    Joined: Feb 11, 2006
    Posts: 173

    Down South Racer
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  29. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 567

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Those were acceptable up through 1971 but not in 1972.

    Gary, the masking tape/pencil story will take a little longer to describe but it's a gem. I need to get to work for now.

    c
     
  30. Down South Racer
    Joined: Feb 11, 2006
    Posts: 173

    Down South Racer
    Member

    Chuck,First saw that 10 inch five groove M and H tire at the last division 2 points meet in mid September 1973.The 1974 rule book gave us headers but we still had to have the exhaust under the car.First 1974 division 2 points meet we got the word we could now run reground cams.I believe it was 1975 before that stupid exhaust system hanging under the car went away and 9 inch by 30 inch tires were legalized.
     

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