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History NHRA Junior Stock

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by colesy, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. mtkawboy
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 1,184

    mtkawboy
    Member

    The award for best use of a leaking 2 barrel award goes to Bob Dwyer of 55 Studebaker stocker fame "The Crockagator". He showed me one on a 280 hydroplane that had just set the Orange Bowl regatta closed course record. A 273 Plymouth with a 2 barrel held down by springs on studs . It sealed idling and the throttle linkage bottomed out and slightly tilted the carb for a WFO leak. Coincidentally his Studebaker stocker also ran a 2 barrel carb on it and outran us a multitude of times for the Junior Stock Trophy and $50. Did it leak then, I doubt it, that would be cheating. He said the boat racers werent near as sharp as the NHRA stocker guys, well some of them
     
  2. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 11,166

    loudbang
    Member

    YAY a Ford Winner :p

    1 ford winner.JPG


    Alex Jarrell Farm Wagon

    alex jarrell farm wagon check.JPG

    Challenger I

    challenger I.JPG

    Contagious

    contagiuos.JPG


    Al Cordia & Stahl

    cordia  & Stahl.JPG
     
  3. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,265

    Jimbo17
    Member

    That is very interesting way of creating an air leak.
    I used to also see guys soaking their air filters in different things like polypropylene and then putting it in a colder with dry ice and then installing it right before making a run!

    Jimbo
     
  4. Jimmy Parker
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 18

    Jimmy Parker
    Member

    Chuck, I've been a member for quite a while and look in every now and then. The question Tim asked caused me to reflect about the first time I remember the term "Jr Stock" used and had to share my version as to how it came about in . I'm sure there is other versions about it's origin.
    When I look at all the pictures it always make me wonder if anyone in the SE had cameras as most of the pics are from the NE or the left coast.
    I haven't seen you on a "Q" sheet in quite a while, have you sold out? I keep telling myself that I will race until I'm 80 and if my health, which is very good now, holds out, I'll be 75 in September. I tested yesterday to break in a freshen on my engine and plan on being in Orlando for the first divisional of the year at the end of the month.
    Thanks for remembering me as a fellow stock eliminator racer.
    Jimmy
     
  5. Jimmy Parker
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 18

    Jimmy Parker
    Member

    Tim, I'm not able to scan at this time, I switched to windows 10 a few weeks ago and now it doesn't work, I keep waiting on a 10 year old to come and fix. The article is small and of course very old and not sure if you could make out. The winners are listed by home town so I can search that way if you will let me know where they lived.
    Jimmy
     
  6. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 394

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Jimmy, I sold my last Stocker about four years ago. I'll be 79 this summer and I still have a '69 Camaro that could be a stocker with very little effort but I am not sufficiently tempted to put in the time. There are several relatively local Stocker racers who regularly appear in my shop with carburetors, distributors, valve-train components, etc., and that exposure is enough to satisfy my curiosity. A while back, I built "break-in" engine stand that has attracted considerable interest from a variety of motorsports enthusiasts. As long as there is something to work on and challenge my imagination, I can do without the long over-night trips, long staging lane lines, or listening to some "Gomer" telling me about his cousin's stone stock Firebird that ran 9.50 off the showroom floor. It was fun for almost 50 years and I don't regret many things about it but I don't want to stretch it so far that people feel sorry for me.

    Keep checking in! This is where it is.

    c
     
  7. Terry Bell
    Joined: Apr 21, 2016
    Posts: 10

    Terry Bell

    Gee Chuck.......you are old.....LOL. Just kidding. I turn 72 in Sept. I'm happy to hear you doing well. I started to build a pure stocker for IHRA until they shot themselves in the head. I have a 1979 Corvette thats about 1/2 apart and lost intrest. I find its just not the same anymore crawling on the garage floor. Its harder to get up. I even considered the NMCA nostalgia muscle car class but like you the travel does not excite me any more. I try to follow this site often. I still mess with the guys on Class Racer. Some don't like what I have to say but its all true. Terry Bell aka X-Tech Man
     
  8. That would be great.
    The club my dad was in is in Duncan, they still meet once a year, and around that area. Don Thomas is from Comanche I think and was the Div.4 champion in 64. He ran a black 57 called the "Cuna Cab".
    thanks
    Tim
     
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  9. Jimmy Parker
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 18

    Jimmy Parker
    Member

    Don Thomas, Comanche won "B" stock @ 93.45, Robby Owsley, Duncan won "C" stock at 90.36, Tommy Kilpatrick, Comanche won "D" stock at 91.55.
     
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  10. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 11,166

    loudbang
    Member

    Reiler Bros
    EDIT: From Terry Bell it should read Reitch Bros not the Reiler Bros
    Reiler  bros.JPG


    Rodger Lindamood


    RODGER LINDAMOOD 66NHRA WINTER NATS winner.JPG


    Ron Hewitt

    Ron Hewitt done.JPG


    Schaums Garage

    schaums garage.JPG

    Shaker

    Shaker.JPG
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
    hendelec, Paul B, Tom 57 150 and 7 others like this.
  11. Terry Bell
    Joined: Apr 21, 2016
    Posts: 10

    Terry Bell

    enloe, Tom 57 150, loudbang and 2 others like this.
  12. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 11,166

    loudbang
    Member

    thanks added that info :)
     
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  13. Thank you I will show this to my dad
     
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  14. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 8,713

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon


    Don't you miss those greasy track burgers!

    Chuck, curious how much weight was saved over the stock grill.

     
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  15. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 394

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    "Don't you miss those greasy track burgers!"

    "Chuck, curious how much weight was saved over the stock grill."


    I should point out that the "greasy track burgers" at Irwindale were prepared by In 'n Out, a premier purveyor of fast food in Southern California. The Snyder family had opened their now-famous chain in Baldwin Park, just down the street from Irwindale Drag Strip and they were granted the franchise for the track back in 1965-66. Last time I drove up to see my California-born daughters, the In 'n Out organization had crossed the border into Oregon and their arrival was being hailed everywhere along I5. For anyone who has not experienced their burgers, there are few people who prefer any of the national chains to a "double-double" cheeseburger from I 'n O. They now operate stores in Oregon, Nevada, Arizona and, so I've heard, Texas. That fact makes the term "greasy track burgers" a nonstarter for Irwindale alumni.

    I have no idea how much weight could be saved by cannibalizing the grill on a tri-five Chevy but I suspect that it was minimal by modern standards. I never owned a full-sized Tri-five (I had a Corvette) so I didn't participate in that egregious effort) Those were days when removing the radio from the dash could end up being a problem if you couldn't find a stock "radio delete" panel. Cars could not be dieted down to the most advantageous class weight minimum for every class and therefore every model had its own shipping weight requirement to meet. If you could delete enough weight from the front end to permit the carrying of a spare tire while still making minimum, you had achieved a real goal. Our first serious car was a '63 Plymouth station wagon with an outrageous rear overhang so getting every possible pound over the back tires was not as big a deal. The car hooked well enough with a stock torque converter, a couple of turns on the torsion bars, and 7" Casler "Spraling" recaps. (Never really understood the use of "Spraling" in that context but that was a long time ago. Anyone with a clue about that is invited to respond.

    c
     
  16. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 8,713

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Chuck, that statement was just a generalization as I didn't know the range of tracks you frequented. I have been to a few I/O burgers when visiting SoCal and I agree, good food.
    I also read up on the Snyder family after DND (RIP) told me about their track operation.
    As to the north of the border locations; the last I checked was only Medford, believe me when I heard the possibility of them opening in Portland I was all ears.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  17. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 4,863

    56sedandelivery
    Member

    Whataburger, come on down!!!! Or up and over. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  18. HaHa you got that right Butch.
    Yes Chuck there are now In n Outs in Texas. If I can make it with out stopping at the Whataburger I might try one some time.
     
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  19. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,265

    Jimbo17
    Member

     
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  20. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 11,166

    loudbang
    Member

    1.JPG

    Caesar's Chariot

    caesar's chariot.JPG

    Jim Waibel's Fugitive vs Yoo Hoo Too

    jim waibels fugitive vs yoo hoo too.JPG

    Jim Waibel's Fugitive

    jim waibels fugitive.JPG

    Ray Braxton's Little Fooler

    little fooler ray braxton.JPG
     
  21. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 394

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    This issue appears to be taking on the weight of one of those eternal, critical questions from the Middle Ages such as, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" or "How much wood would a woodchuck chuck...? I'd merely settle for the freedom to eat a double-double without a cadre of doctors shaking their heads and pointing to the looming threat of aortic blockage, spiking blood sugar, or freaking B.P.! I submit that we've lived through the greatest time that anyone could ever hope to have experienced with freedoms and choices that were unprecedented in human history. We happily made those choices, lived the good life, and now that the darkness is beginning to descend, mostly only the memories remain.

    Carry on,

    c
     
  22. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 8,713

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I'll have fries with that!
     
  23. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 4,863

    56sedandelivery
    Member

    Eat right, stay fit, die anyway. I think hereditary issues are more at play than really all of what we eat. Everything in moderation! I've seen cross country runner type athletes die of heart issues, as well as grossly overweight people die of old age. More of what's in your genes, as apposed to what's in your jeans, kind of thing. Sure, what we eat has an effect, but I think less that what is pushed upon us, as long as it's a reasonable thing. It's OK to eat a Whataburger, just not for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, seven days a week. The comparisons with other countries is't really fair, those countries don't have our USDA, FDA, or Medical Association. We use more fertilizers, GMO's, and have completely different lifestyles. If I were say, Japanese, I would die of starvation; I can't stand fish, and it's a huge part of their diet. JMO. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

    My experience with Whataburger was my 2 years in Tyler, Tx at Tyler Junior College, where I trained for my X-Ray career. It's one of the things I miss from that time, along with more drag strips, and wild and crazy women.
    Back to the Junior Stock thread.
     
  24. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 509

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    I dont want to be a 'jerk', but what were the rules for Junior stock? I've looked through this thread but cant find anything firm. It seems that the car had to be a 'production car' in as much as the components needed to be the combination for a production car, even if that car didn't come with those parts, so gearbox swaps were ok if that model of car came with it. Light weight wheels were not allowed, headers appear to be o.k but into a stock muffler,(although they can be disengaged to run open headers) cam regrinds seem to be o.k, but stock carbs? Suspension mods also seem to be o.k. I'm also very interested as to why so many deliverys and fordors were used. Great thread.
     
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  25. mtkawboy
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 1,184

    mtkawboy
    Member

    Junior Stock wasnt a real class, it was an eliminator. The high class stockers got to run for their eliminator and what was left {determined by where the strip did the cutoff} ran for Junior Stock. We had a K/S 59 Biscayne 283/ 185 4 speed that ran Junior Stock and usually raced a 54 Studebaker owned by Bob Dwyer. The rules for the classes were the actual NHRA stock class rules. It was a fun and amazing time to race when the builders skills not his wallet determined how the cars ran
     
  26. mtkawboy
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 1,184

    mtkawboy
    Member

    In answer to the second part of your question 4 doors & wagons were run because you couldnt add or subtract weight back then to make a class and the drivers weight didnt enter into it either. Our car broke at 19.08 lbs per horsepower to fit in the K class. You picked a body that broke as close to the weight break as possible . Hope that naswers your question a little bit
     
  27. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 4,863

    56sedandelivery
    Member

    "Originally", it was a "part" of Stock Eliminator. That consisted of Top Stock cars A/Stock through F/Stock, then Junior Stock cars G/Stock through N/Stock, and lastly Little Stock cars O/Stock through W/Stock. But, ALL that got tossed around some through the years, and changed all the "classes" around in Stock. I know at one time Junior Stock went down to O/Stock, maybe P/Stock. The stick shift cars were "XYZ"/ Stock, and then automatic trans cars got the added "A" after the Stock designation ; O/SA as an example. Eventually, it just became "Stock Class", and the completely hated, 15 year rule; a car could no longer be older than 15 years old to run in Stock.. I think the Stock Vega's fell in something like X/S or X/SA; boy was THAT boring to watch, seeing those cars go down the strip! Watch them stage, go get a hamburger, come back, and see them cross the finish line (Not really quite THAT bad). Weight breaks, indexes, and the Sanction Bodies requiring more and more and more "safety equipment", only added to a lot of racers giving it up to race in the Brackets. Now, Brackets are just as bad. 40 years ago NOBODY could have imagined that engine diapers were on the horizon. A little off topic from the thread, but we used to have a beat up, completely stock Pinto, running in brackets at Bremerton Raceway. Car and driver were always dead on their dial in, ALWAYS. Always won his bracket, and king of the hill races. Take a $35,000.00, rear engine, Super/Pro dragster, having to chase down a $300.00 beater Pinto, and LOSING!!! Something's wrong there, and it's enough to make you want to cry; another reason I SOLD my rear engine dragster, and got back into classic, 56 Chevrolet's. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  28. Butch, I don't want to get too much off on a tangent here. In fact , I came on here just now to help out our friend from England.
    But, I would say , in your example that maybe the dragster driver should sell it, pocket the $34.7, and buy a Pinto, if he wants to turn on more win lights.;)
     
    Tom 57 150 likes this.
  29. I'll take a few parts here. I'm just a young pup, compared to some of the living legends here.
    The exhaust you see in some pics just had to be there for the Stock rule. Most of the serious cars didn't even have them hooked up. That rule went away in about 1970 ? Chuck ? Travis?
    There really weren't light wheels in the mid 60's . Lots of guys made their own, using VW outer rims.
    Cragar SS's were really upscale for the average guy and they weren't a whole lot lighter.
    We used the Fenton Gyros up towards the demise of Jr.Stock. They were cast aluminum and about as light as you could get. Super Tricks, Centerlines, Monocoques, Welds, were all later, in the Super Stock era.
     
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  30. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 394

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    You're certainly anything but a "jerk" and you've asked the most logical question to have appeared here in many months. The majority of the participants in the discourse relative to this thread have lived through or otherwise become informed about a phenomenon that once occupied a prominent place in drag racing, Junior Stock competition. Many of us were participants in Junior Stock Eliminator at one time or another and others have become, like yourself, interested enough in the concept to follow through 455 pages of great pictures, rambling narrative, and recalling the good times (and bad).

    With regard to rules, they have been rather fluid over time so they have evolved, morphed, re-evolved, mutated, and evolved some more since the 1950's. At the outset, they required that participants adhere to competing in cars that were equipped with original components. From the beginning, there were specific exceptions (exhaust systems, gear ratios, transmission internals, for example) that were exempt (mostly because cars run better with open exhaust, gear ratios are difficult to police, and aftermarket manufacturers lobbied to have their particular products legalized so that they could sell more merchandise. Plus, there is the fact that hot rodeos like to make a lot of noise, smoke, and impress the spectators. Originally, camshafts were supposed to be stock but, hotrodders, being an unruly and rebellious lot, soon discovered that it is all but impossible to police every camshaft in every car so the requirements for stock duration and lobe overlap were eventually removed from the equation. That happened because competitive participants were eager to find ways to make their particular car faster than another car that was ostensibly identical. Literally pages and pages of requirements have been changed over the years simply because they were too expensive or technologically complex to monitor. Exceptions to the rules are made every year and a modern "Stocker" bears little resemblance to the cars that we raced in the 1960's in the category called "Junior Stock."

    Cars are classified by dividing the manufacturer's advertised shipping weight by the manufacturer's advertised horsepower to establish a classification "factor." That factors determines the class within Junior Stock that a particular combination will compete. Therefore, a single engine (such as a 1957 Chevrolet 283 engine) in a lightweight body such as a Corvette would run in a different class if it were installed in a heavier four-door station wagon. There were many classes (some would say, there were too many classes) and there was an advantage to finding a class in which one could dominate all other competitors and thus, be declared the class "Champion." At one time, winning the trophy for one's class on Saturday or Sunday allowed for a full week's worth of gloating before it all had to be done all over again on the following Saturday night.

    These explanations are very cursory but I simply tried to tie into your specific questions. There are as many varying interpretations to the historical aspect of Junior Stock racing as there are to the nutritional value of different hamburgers. If you have other questions, please ask them. If you prefer to learn more by conducting research, we can direct you to some excellent books that have been written on the topic. "Junior Stock, Drag Racing the Family Sedan" by Doug Boyce is one of those and it can be found on Amazon.com. Or, you may choose to watch us pick the topic to pieces, one brick at a time, time right here on this thread.

    Thank you for asking and reminding us that this topic needs occasional clarification.

    Highest regards,

    c
     

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