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History NHRA Junior Stock

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by colesy, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    The "wrinkle wall" slick was a huge advancement in traction and lower Et's in the mid 60's...Here's ,none other. than the legendary Bob Glidden showing how they work !!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  2. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    For those of us who always wondered why Jenkins Competition cars were faster than everybody else........aluminum patch panels just one of many "tricks' of 'da grump !!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  3. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    Here's Ramon Lowe before his '62 Grand Prix !!!
     
  4. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    If there's an uglier car than a '61 Dodge Wagon, I haven't seen it !!!!!
     
  5. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    This car sold at the Barrett-Jackson auction about 4 years ago for over $1Million....It then resold 2 years ago for 1/4 Million....a loss of 750K...YIKES !!!!
     
  6. Troublemaker427
    Joined: Jun 27, 2006
    Posts: 1,829

    Troublemaker427
    Member

    Strick never ran a Plymouth of his own. He did drive one for Sox & Martin a few times in 1967 though. Dave had three '64 Dodges, 1.Max Wedge hardtop 2. Hemi AFX sedan 3. Hemi SS sedan. He also had two '65 Dodges, 1. AWB AFX Hemi 2. SS Hemi. The Hemi SS car was only raced at the US Nats @ Indy. Bill Stiles has told me Dodge dropped the car off at their shop in York about a week before Indy. They had it lettered and tuned it a bit and took it to Indy where it didn't run all that well. Dodge then picked the car back up never to be seen again.

    Strick got his Dodge deal after Chevy pulled the plug during the 1963 season, Bud Faubel was very involved in getting Dave the deal with Mopar. During the 1965 season Mopar started directing it's racing budget back to NASCAR and Strick was one of the casulties of this. I'm very good friends with Dave's son Mike who is the "keeper of his Dad's racing legacy". Mike still has the original letter Chrysler sent Dave informing him of the end of the sponsorship agreement. Cool stuff.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  7. Troublemaker427
    Joined: Jun 27, 2006
    Posts: 1,829

    Troublemaker427
    Member

    It is the Dyno Don "Ugly Duckling" when it was sent to Hawaii at the end of 1964 to do some match racing. Later the car returned to the mainland finally being raced by Steve Bagwell in GA.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  8. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    Is that the same Steve Bagwell who ran a stable of Plymouth Hemi cars in SS/B and SS/C ????
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
  9. Down South Racer
    Joined: Feb 11, 2006
    Posts: 173

    Down South Racer
    Member

    To ansswer your question,yes the same Steve bagwell. Before the Comet he had raced a 1963 Z-11 Chevrolet.
     
  10. WGuy
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 390

    WGuy
    Member
    from Central NJ

    After they stripped down the body, he also told them to only put enough paint on it to cover the metal. He said, " Do you know how much a gallon of paint weighs?"

    Verne;)
     
  11. 64 Thunderbolt
    Joined: Feb 8, 2011
    Posts: 277

    64 Thunderbolt
    Member

    Back in the 90's I was a painter/bodyman on a Winston Cup team.
    We not only knew how much the paint made the car weigh, we also knew what fillers & things like that were the lightest.
    Nowadays I think there mostly just a big decal & no paint to it.
     
  12. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    I couldn't disagree more....Why punish a guy for running better than everybody else???
     
  13. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 561

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    From the point of view of the performance purist, you are correct. From the point of view of the desirability of sustaining the sport, the truth is, without classes and indexes, Stock drag racing in the NHRA format would have died long ago. If it were possible to control all the diverse elements that comprise the sport and maintain a level playing field across the board it would be great but it would look like NASCAR today with cookie-cutter cars and engines that bear little or no resemblance to showroom cars. There are pitifully few people at the grassroots level who can afford to build or buy the latest trick-ride-of-the-week over and over again for an indefinite period of time. In an uncontrolled environment the "trick" rides with bogus horsepower ratings and latest "gimmicks" have proven able to trump ingenuity and cunning every time and for most of us, it's the challenge of the ingenuity and cunning that have kept us coming back for over 50 years, (yes, I've been involved for that long). Bottom line, most sane individuals are unwilling to pay to compete when the odds of winning are essentially non-existent.

    It would be possible to cite myriad examples of this situation but the parameters of this message board would have us all banned for life before we could ever unravel even the most basic nuances of Stock racing and how it has evolved.
     
  14. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    You make many valid points....which has led us to the dreaded bracket racing we have today ...save the multi million dollar pro classes.
    To get the average joe back to the track, you need a class he can run with minimal expense...Brackets.
    In 1999 I built a Nostalgia S/S car because it was first guy to the end wins !!! That lasted exactly 1 year until EVERYBODY violated the spirit of the rules, using 800 C.I. Monster Motors, hidden nitrous set ups and any other trick to be top dog. We live in an age where everybody wants to be an American Idol winner and cheating is no big deal.
    What's the answer...I don't know, but maybe we just go back to run-what-you-brung and hope you brung enough !!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  15. drag race
    Joined: Jun 9, 2013
    Posts: 34

    drag race
    Member
    from delaware

    pontiac421, i am new to this, so please forgive if i am wrong, on post #9837 by jim biron he states the record for i/s was reset to 12.20 by Marv Ripes on a bet. some where on here in earlier post i saw where the i/s record was set at 12.20 by a Bill Cornelius at the now gone Suffolk drag strip in va in 1970 or 1971. john novick had the record at i belive 12.23 till this time . i may be wrong as 40 years have passed.
     
  16. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 561

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Someone may be crossing information between the classes (I/S and I/SA) in this instance. I'm positive that Marv never ran his '57 Corvette with anything but a Powerglide. Stick and automatic classes ran off their individual records and Marv's record would only have applied to I/SA. It was fairly common for racers who had access to "mine-shaft" tracks such as Fremont or Half-Moon Bay in Callifornia or Atco in New Jersey to set records far out of the reach of racers who raced under less favorable conditions even if their equipment was on a par. I don't know what transmission Mr. Cornelius used although I remember the name from the record sheets of the day. I have one set of records that shows John Novak in a stick shift class.
     
  17. automaticslim
    Joined: Aug 31, 2010
    Posts: 367

    automaticslim
    Member
    from new jersey

    Chuck, please educate me. What is a "mine-shaft" track?
     
  18. Mine shaft air is when temperature, weather conditions and altitude contribute to having air density the same as being well below sea level. I have seen -2500 foot below sea level on air density meters before. I'm sure other racers have seem even them farther down.
     
  19. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 561

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Sorry about that. That's the name we have traditionally given to tracks that sometimes (but not necessarily always) produce extraordinarily advantageous climatic conditions. A good example would be Atco in late March. Racing under those conditions could produce an experience that we compared to "racing down a mine shaft." Fremont or Atco (at certain times of the year) were easily capable of producing relative elevation numbers that were equal to being well below sea level.

    Stock and Super Stock racers have typically monitored conditions with commercially available "weather stations" that sample the barometric pressures, relative humidity, temperature, vapor pressure, dew point, etc. and reduce the combination of those factors into a single number that could be interpreted as the "density altitude" or "relative altitude." Savvy track owners and promoters scheduled divisional races, National Open races, etc. at times of the year when the best conditions were likely to be expected. The car counts usually reflected a significant increase under those conditions. We all liked to see big numbers on the time slip.
     
  20. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT


    And, he coated the under-carriage with a special 'epoxy-sealer' to
    eliminate any 'Wind-Drag', as well as using a 'filler' to any open body
    separation-gap under the car.

    The man was 'genius'.
     
  21. automaticslim
    Joined: Aug 31, 2010
    Posts: 367

    automaticslim
    Member
    from new jersey

    Wow. That's great info, guys. Thanks John and Chuck.
     
  22. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    I ran a class car for years (SS/B) and the fun is racing in your own class where it's first guy to the end wins...no breakout!! Otherwise , you stare at the other guy so you don't "break out"....Bracket racing.
    To put it simply, when you hear a guy say "I don't know what the problem is... car's running too fast"......That ain't racing !!!!
     
  23. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 561

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Drag racing has been a sport that provides the opportunity to experience satisfaction on a variety of levels within a broad range of tastes. It could be compared to the choices presented by selecting to dine at a buffet establishment that offers a smorgasbord menu as opposed to chowing down in a restaurant that specializes in one or two specialties such as Joe's Crab Shack or Ruth Criss' Steakhouse.

    First, and foremost, it is a participant sport rather than a spectator sport. NHRA has struggled with this fact for years by trying to turn it into a spectator sport that can tap the Golden Goose of television exposure without losing the basic appeal that brought many of us into the game in the first place, that of competing on a personal level. Let's face it, drag racing doesn't easily lend itself to live television, yet that's about the only way to generate the level of cash that permits the sanctioning body to become an empire, complete with all the trappings of wealth, big salaries, and significant financial rewards that are evident in enterprises such as NASCAR or the NFL. Once drag racing is viewed in the light of being a participant sport to a greater degree than a spectator sport, it isn't difficult to peel away the glitz and glamour and get down to the guys in the pits with greasy hands and the level of independence that has kept it alive for years.

    Some participants enter a race primarily for the thrill of being a part of the show. They love the fellowship of being with racers, talking about racing, exercising their brains and bodies doing something that challenges them whether they win or lose. Others compete to satisfy the itch to make a lot of noise, go as fast as they can, and derive maximum satisfaction from making horsepower and displaying it on a big stage. Another group is infected with a life-long desire to compete against others, whatever the activity, in whatever manner they can, be it street-bombing from stoplight to stoplight, competitive tiddly-winks, bowling, or any other activity that allows them to measure their talents and accomplishments against other players within an established framework of rules. That brings us to the question of which of these three groups is experiencing true drag racing. Is it building a machine that looks and runs well and permits respectable participation, is it going as fast as you can with the equipment that you can afford, or is it walking away at the end of the day with cash in hand? I contend that there is no one answer that fits every ego. It's great that pontiac421 defines his success by class racing and running every pairing as fast as he can from start to finish while another racer derives great satisfaction by cutting a killer light and running precisely on his dial-in while dragging the brakes for the last 200'. Someone else, parked 20' away may be satisfied merely to have been a part of the show. Personally, I can identify points over the last 50 years when I fit in along the continuum at most all levels. At the end of the day, the goal is to be able to derive personal satisfaction, go home, make plans, regroup, and race again next week at whatever level you wish. Isn't that really what it's all about in the first place?
     
  24. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Chuck,

    Good Writing.........

    For me, I kind of enjoyed Class Racing back in the late-60's and early 70's.

    Sometimes going 4-Rounds for a $10 Trophy and Class Winner Decal.

    Something changed for me once the 'Bracket Thing' got going in 1975 in New York, and many of the 4-Speed cars disappeared, never to be seen again.
     
  25. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    I agree with you Paul....I ran a class car (4-speed) for many years and loved it. I also ran S/C with a big block Corvette, Powerglide and electronics....all dictated by the necessity of being consistent......YAWN!!!!
    A 10 second pass in a 4 speed class car, feels like the Space Shuttle compared to an 8.90 pass in an automatic, air shifted, powerglide car !!!!
    Just my opinion.....Chuck makes EXCELLENT points !!!
     
  26. WGuy
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 390

    WGuy
    Member
    from Central NJ

    That's why I always raced (and still do). I just wanted the personal satisfaction of seeing how quick I could go PLUS I love the experience of the competition. Car show trophies, I throw in the trash or recycle them for our club shows. Drag racing trophies, I save with the memories.

    Verne;)
    PS: Yes, 4 rounds for that $10. trophy and a decal. Always made my day! (4-spd car too)
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  27. goodwrench 1957
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 27

    goodwrench 1957
    Member

    Headed to Bowling Green, taking the delivery, with the Rochester injection it, come by and see us.
     
  28. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    If you run a 4-speed car in brackets, I doubt you have to worry about winning too many trophies !!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  29. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Verne and Pontiac 421,

    Nothing better than towing home from the Drag Strip on early-Sunday Evening with the big 'T' on your front windshield, Class Trophy in the car and fresh Class Winner
    Decal on the side window.

    The Beer tasted better, and the late Sunday - Hot Dog or Hamburger or Ice Cream was the 'Best-in-the-World.

    In 1973 and 1974, I had my most fun on Sundays running in SS/I with my
    68' Barracuda 340 and running 11.75's in 'Super Stock Trophy'.

    1975 'Bracket Racing' was tolerable with a 4-Speed, but tough to win.

    In 1976, I quit, after pulling up against a 'new' 1976 Oldsmobile Omega-SX in a Bracket Semi-Final.

    He was dialed in at 17.50, and I had to spot him almost 6-Seconds.

    After the race, this 17 year-old kid in the Omega-SX pulls up to me and says.

    "You almost caught me....... I forgot to turn off the air-conditioner."

    That was it............
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  30. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    Wow...I can relate !!! I was at a Super Chevy Show and because of the crowd, they ran all brackets together.....My 8.90 S/C Corvette had to spot a '55 265/162 H.P. shoebox EIGHT SECONDS !!!!! I actually got around him, because he let off thinking I could never make up the time, but 150 MPH gets to 80 MPH in a hurry !!!!!
    He had cut a better light than me and had he stayed in it, would have won....Bracket Racing...sometimes you're good and sometimes you get lucky !!!!
     

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