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History NHRA Junior Stock

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by colesy, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. 63 Dodge D100 Dick Boynton Dodge BFX ''Ram Truck'' pickup.

    Part II<!-- / message --><!-- attachments -->

    See Part III in next post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  2. 63 Dodge D100 Dick Boynton Dodge BFX ''Ram Truck'' pickup.

    Part III<!-- / message --><!-- attachments -->
     
  3. I&#8217;d be Remiss if I didn&#8217;t say that many of the pics posted in Parts I-III, of the Dodge D100 B-FX pickup truck, are taken from an undated Speed Mechanics magazine from the sixties.

    I do not have the complete article but here it is in part. Does anyone have the remaining feature? Please post and complete if you so desire. Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 562

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Relative to the third picture in post #9761, Tony Janes and I spent quite a bit of time last night trying to decide if that Grand Prix could have been Ramon Lowe. While our memories are not perfect, we ended up withholding judgement in the hope that further evidence will be presented. We offer the following:

    1. Tony remembers Ramon's Grand Prix as being lighter in color, almost a "cream" color. (OK, so sometimes the memory mechanism of a septuagenarian can be problematic but Tony is one us whose track record is stellar in most instances.)

    2. The Stahl Headers sign would not have been common for a car from Southern California in 1962. Most Pontiac guys out here were partial to Jess Tyree or Jardine Headers at that point in time. Stahl's reputation was not as widely recognized that early in the game and most of the development tended to be regional in nature. I don't recall Stahl's product presence in Division 7 until a few years later.

    3. The license plate on the Grand Prix features a very light background, actually almost white in appearance. Numerals on California plates of that era would have been a dirty yellow with black background OR possibly black with yellow numerals. If you closely examine the plate on Pop's Buick, you can see the contrast. At some point, late in late 1962 or early 1963 ALL the black-on-yellow California plates were replaced with the yellow-on-black.

    Of course, all the mystery could be eliminated if someone came up with a copy of the 1962 entry list, complete with car numbers. Either way, the magazine coverage is an indicator of the interest shown in Stockers at that point in time.

    Some other time I'll recap the stories I've heard about Carol Cox's struggles to be allow to compete. Carol and Lloyd's son has told me that she went toe-to-toe with officials over their reluctance to allow a woman to drive a race car. It was certainly a different era!

    c
     
  5. Kudos, for Tony James and you, Chuck for concluding some of the mystery surrounding the Grand Prix in question. I tried to find an entry list for the '62 Nationals and came up short.

    I believe that I do have the listing somewhere in my half-million files, but, as of yet, they elude me. I will keep at it. LOL!
     
  6. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    Your memories are correct !!!! I just found an original picture of Lowe's '62 G.P...It's in Pete McCarty's book "Pontiac Muscle Car Performance" Pg 166...It's a B&W Pic, but the car is definitely White (Cameo Ivory) or Bamboo Cream, to use the official Poncho color designations!! Mystery solved !!
    BTW....Lowe ran 13.89 @ 100.13 in 303 4-Barrel configuration!!!
     
  7. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 562

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    "Looking at the first pic I posted in black n white, it appears to me that the Lic plate reads either BZ-5226, B2-5226."

    The "black-on-yellow" series of California plates consisted of identifiers that began with three numerals followed by three letters (as in 123 ABC). Those plates were completely replaced by the end of 1962. The 1963 plates (yellow on black) contained 3 letters followed by three numerals (my '62 406 Galaxy was "FHA 079," my '57 Corvette plate was "INL 109," while I believe that the Popular Hot Rodding magazine "Project X" car began its career as "INL 142.") In late 1969/early 1970 new yellow-on-blue plates (also 6 digits) appeared but the black plates were not recalled, hence the commonly seen reference to a "black-plate California car" in sales of 1960s era muscle cars. A seventh digit was introduced to that series in about 1980.

    "I just found an original picture of Lowe's '62 G.P...It's in Pete McCarty's book "Pontiac Muscle Car Performance" Pg 166...It's a B&W Pic, but the car is definitely White (Cameo Ivory) or Bamboo Cream, to use the official Poncho color designations!! "

    Thank you for going to the trouble to clarify that. Since I didn't follow the lower Stock classes all that closely until 1963, I couldn't remember Ramon's GP but I have found that Tony's ability to recall such details is exceptional and he was already pretty well hooked on Stock classes by that time. When we were talking about this topic last night he recalled the '56 Pontiac G/SA class winner, Danny Roberts, who, I believe was from Pasadena or nearby.

    Pontiacs were very visible in Division 7 during that era. A part of that was due to the support that GM provided to Mickey Thompson and the Cox family. Lloyd Cox was one of the least appreciated Stock/AFX innovators of the early 60s. It is my opinion that Mickey got a lot of the credit for the winning record of his stock-bodied entries that might well have gone to Lloyd.

    In addition to Ramon Lowe, Don Bennett and Jerry Young were regular Pontiac contenders on the local scene until it became popular to tow Stockers to the track. Seldom saw them after tow bars and hubs became the rage.

    Time to turn the day in a different direction. Thanks for the memories.

    c
     
  8. Troublemaker427
    Joined: Jun 27, 2006
    Posts: 1,829

    Troublemaker427
    Member

    Here are a couple better shots of Dad's current 390-401 car.

     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  9. Troublemaker427
    Joined: Jun 27, 2006
    Posts: 1,829

    Troublemaker427
    Member

  10. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    I completely agree with you on Lloyd Cox...I can remember after Carol's win in S/SA in her '61 389/368 SD, how magazines of the day were quoting Carol drove a M/T prepared car...NOT TRUE!! Lloyd quickly pointed out to anyone who would listen, M/T had nothing at all to do with Carol's car much less tune it !!!! But Mickey was the big name of the day and journalists back then (like today!) just wanted a good story !!!!
    Of course, Lloyd drove the famed M/T '62 Tempest A/FX with a 421/405 for power and dominated the class.
     
  11. that thing is badass! I love that truck!
     
  12. PONTIAC PERFORMANCE: 1955-1973½
    ARCHIVAL PONCHOS

    The Complete History Of Pontiac Performance
    by Joe Oldham

    This is the story you should read from the April, 1973 issue of Hi-Performance Cars Magazine. It details many of the early performance Ponchos that we all love and fondly remember. There are many other Pontiac articles on that site that you might also enjoy that are not H.A.M.B. friendly.
    Link is posted below: http://www.pontiacserver.com/ap1.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  13. Nice pics, Troublemaker427; wish I had an early Starliner that nice.
    Make mine black, with the red interior like your father's, on a rake, period style wheels, and Casler Cheaters. Give me the 390 thumper, 3-spd OD, and the 3.89.1 gearing. Let's hit the strip then go for a cruise...
     
  14. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    I have always loved these sleek Skyliners and bought one at the 2009 Mecum Auction in St. Charles Ill.
    It was Red and looked completely stock except for the 427 SOHC under the hood !!! I knew the motor alone was worth 50-60K and I didn't want to spend 100K on a car, so I was bidding just for fun. Was I surprised when the car hammered sold at 42K....I stole it.....Or did I ????
    It dawned on me , this is the primer Muscle Car Auction of the year...Am I the only smart guy here?? Nervous, I made a few phone calls and found out aftermarket suppliers are making reproduction SOHC aluminum heads !!! Worst of all, the will fit any FE block, so my exotic "cammer" could very well be a pedestrian 352 with fancy heads !!!!
    My friend said to put a magnet to the head, because all the "REAL" ones are steel. Frantically seeking a magnet, I was approached by Dana Mecum himself. He asked if I would consider passing on the deal, because a good friend of his really wanted the car, but missed it on the block....Hmmmm.
    Seeing my hesitation he offered me $8K to walk away from the deal...I took it.
    To this day, I don't know if that car was real !!!!
    Do you know of these repro cammer heads and if they work???
    Better yet, does anybody know of a '61 Starliner cammer and is it real !!!
    You can see the car on Mecum Auction Results 2009 St. Charles Ill Lot F-118
     
  15. Apparently DOVE has sold SOHC heads for years now and they actually work according to many sources. I believe that DOVE was the first aftermarket company to source complete inventories of all Ford head: from LR to TP, CJ, CDN CJ, SOHC, etc. I have an older ad that I will dig out and post it shortly.

    Through the years, I have seen or heard of several SOHC 'Liners that used the real deal 427 SOHC block and heads. First I ever heard of beside Ford's own version '64 Galaxie's, was a street racing gentleman living in Bloomington, that owned a '61 SOHC Starliner back in the mid-to-late sixties. He raced the beast on Woodward Ave., and belonged to the High End Club.

    You might want to contact this fellow: Dr. Eric M. Schiffer, a frequent contributor on the PY Online Forums. He is the owner of the infamous 68 Pontiac ''Blackbird'' Firebird street racer that you may have heard about.

    Mr. Schiffer grew up with all of the big-time Woodward Ave street heros of the day, including Jim Wangers, and the Royal Racing Team, all whom he knew personally. He is still a regular at the Detriot street racing haunts, and can probably point you in the ''right'' direction for SOHC powered Fords, including the Starliner.

    Here is a link to the Woodward Ave, Silver Bullit vs Blackbird forum. Yes, it's the Jimmy Addison 67 Plymouth GTX ''Silver Bullit'' Hemi that is referred to in the thread.

    Included in this thread is the ''real'' behind the scenes deal concerning most every publicized road test ever done on the early to late sixties (Pontiac) musclecars, and how they were modified and manipulated in the press. It's a 41-page long thread and very informative for anyone with an open mind, and a love for Pontiacs.

    LInk: http://216.178.81.108/forums/showthread.php?t=652803&page=35
     
  16. CDXXVII
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 134

    CDXXVII
    Member
    from Vermont

    Good story. Anything is possible but I would guess the auctioneer made a mistake and was feeding you a line. The 427 SOHC was produced by Ford starting 1964 (over the counter only), long after the Starliner was done.
    Ford built iron and aluminum cammer heads. There are (were?) several aftermarket sources for the repro heads including an Australian guy. I don't believe cammer heads will fit a small bore 352. The big valves would hit the sides of the bores.

     
  17. Troublemaker427
    Joined: Jun 27, 2006
    Posts: 1,829

    Troublemaker427
    Member

  18. 64 Thunderbolt
    Joined: Feb 8, 2011
    Posts: 277

    64 Thunderbolt
    Member

  19. Offset
    Joined: Nov 9, 2010
    Posts: 1,599

    Offset
    Member
    from Canada

    Good to see this thread coming back to life. Brings back a lot of good memories of some really neat and quick cars.

    My friend, Brooke DeShaw RIP, ran a dark blue 63 Impala that was and ex Park Lane Motors (Sarnia, Ontario) F/S car. Anyone have any pictures of the Park Lane sponsored cars. The one thing I recall about this car was the headers came out almost straight above the front tire, cannot recall how they routed around the suspension. The engine was built by Dynamic Engines in Detroit.
     
  20. Gree5ndf
    Joined: Jun 5, 2013
    Posts: 8

    Gree5ndf
    Member
    from usa

    Those were some serious battles on the track. Guys that were slamming gears and having a great time.[​IMG]
     
  21. The older photo shows my '61 390/401 Starliner prior to my ownership at National Speedway in NY. I bought the car in 1989 after it sat idle outside for 20 plus years. I got the engine running and after replacing the valve springs that broke after all those years at rest and some body restoration, I took it to Island Dragway and it still managed a 13.8 on that tired old motor.
    This car had a very early intake which had the un-drilled kick-down linkage bosses at the rear as Ford at the time of the first castings was still contemplating whether or not it would be used on auto trans cars.
    Sold this car in the mid 90s to fund another project. Wish I still had it.
     

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  22. This '62 Galaxie, which I owned from 1985 to 1994 was a very early "M" code 390/401 hp, bench-seat, four-speed. You have to look in an early '62 manual to find the "M" code listed. Not the same as the tri-power T-Bird "M" code cars. I was the second owner of this car which had 32,000 miles on it when I purchased it and 42,000 miles on it when I sold it.It now resides in Texas.
     

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  23. We used to tow my brother-in-laws '65 360hp, four-speed GTO to the track with my '66 GTA. The "Goat" ran 12.9s at 108 in D/S. I would run the Fairlane in F/Pure stock at 15.0 and hook up the GTO for the return home. The Fairlane ran the 15.0s if I just put in drive and let it shift itself, it went 15.1 / 15.2 if I manually shifted it. Go figure!
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 562

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    A year or two after I arrived in California, I met Rod Enriquez, a salesman at a local dealership, Montebello Ford just east of Los Angeles. Rod had a 427, '63 Galaxie fastback that he raced in the 1/2 mile drags. I recall that was in the latter part of 1963 and into early 1964. It was a bit difficult for me to get my head around that activity since we were beginning to become active at Lions, Pomona, and San Gabriel with a 1/4 mile Stocker. San Gabriel had closed its doors in July 1963 and Rod urged us to consider the half-mile at Riverside. I recall that most of those guys had been part of the dry lakes racing that flourished during the 1940s and 50s. I never heard much about that continuing after 1964.
     
  25. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    "Slammin' gears and having a great time"....Thay's what got me hooked on Nostalgia S/S.
    In 1999 I was running a 1965 Corvette with a big block in Super Comp (8.90 index) This is bracket racing.....go too fast you lose, 2-speed Powerglide, throttle stop, electronics up the ying yang ... YAWN!!!
    Then I saw a 1962 409 Chevy with a 4-speed power shifting down the track and I was pumped... Whats that I asked...He said it's a new class Nostalgia S/S... Just like the old days,,, first guy to the end wins...That's for me !!!
    I sold my'Vette and bought a 1961 Pontiac with the original 389.....N/SS required a full bodied car with the original type engine, but you could modify it internally Carbs, intakes, etc. had to be what it had in that model year.....In other words, it had to LOOK like a 421 Pontiac but heads, cam, bore could be improved.
    I built a my '61 389 to a 466" (1/2 " Stroker) and overbore, Crane Roller cam and a lot of headwork. I used a Muncie M-22 "rockcrusher" 4-speed ....I was ready to go out and bang some gears !!!!
    The car took me about 18 months to build and I was ready for some test runs.....When I got to the track ( Moroso Motorsports Park in West Palm Beach, Fl ) I didn't see any other N/SS cars. When the tech inspector asked what class I was running I proudly said N/SS....He asked which one ??? What?? He informed me, it's no longer first guy to the end wins..... it's now a dial in class..9.50. 10.00 10.50, ETC...... FREAKIN" BRACKET RACING !!!!!!
    It seems , the cars were so highly modified, some guys could run in the low 8's and it just wasn't competitive . The "spirit" of the rules were violated with teams using hidden nitrous set-ups, massive cubic inch aluminum motors, and other tricks....I packed up and went home and never made a pass!!! The fun ended in the 60's and can't be resurrected !!!!!
     
  26. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    You are right!! I had an "M" code '63 T-Bird. It was a Tri-Power 390 with 406 Heads and a hot hydraulic cam...It was rated at 340 Horsepower.
     
  27. pontiac421
    Joined: May 31, 2013
    Posts: 35

    pontiac421
    BANNED

    I am very familiar with this car and watched it run many times at Atco,York and Cecil County,Md. In 1961 Bob Harrop ran S/S but later switched to Dodge in 1963 when GM banned racing. The car was sold locally and ran as a B/S terror under the name Expeditor....I saw it sell at an auction about 8 years ago for 88K.
     
  28. Offset
    Joined: Nov 9, 2010
    Posts: 1,599

    Offset
    Member
    from Canada

    Benchracer thank you for posting the ad (never seen that before) and the pictures of Bob Burch's car. Do you know if that car became the Cal Pon (sp) racer. He lived in Etobicoke and owned the car for many years, it certainly looks like the same car.

    Thanks again.
     
  29. cornelius#2
    Joined: Jul 4, 2012
    Posts: 26

    cornelius#2
    BANNED

    any one heard any thing lately about the restoration of tokyo rose ? been a while since ihave seen any post.
     
  30. OldColt
    Joined: Apr 7, 2013
    Posts: 504

    OldColt
    Member

    I heard, or read sometime back that all the Tokyo Rose cars went straight to the crusher after they were retired to save the speed secrets in them. Maybe I am wrong and there are some survivors. --- Steve ---
     

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