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History NHRA Junior Stock

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by colesy, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. 67 W-30
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 350

    67 W-30
    Member
    from N.E. Ohio

    Thats right --- around here if you go below 7.50 a roll bar is required. Thats why i want mine just a little slower than that! Right Now i have a set of 9.0X30 M/T drag slicks on it (non-DOT), but I thought with the 4.10 gears I may be losing some ET over a set of drag radials about 26.5 dia! ??
    Got my new ULTIMATE converter via UPS today . Cant wait to get it in and see what difference it makes for me. Its gotta be much better than the ATI i have in there right now!!
    Tweed
     
  2. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    Member
    from Indiana

    Tweed,

    Your car looks beautiful!

    Just curious, you mentioned earlier that your engine is built as it was "back then". Could you now run the new 7" M&H slicks that are said to be built along the lines of the originals? When your car was raced in the 60's did you hook with the 7" tires or was traction an issue? Is current torque converter technology/performance what dictates the need for a modern slick? Kevin(BadNews) mentioned the weight savings of the radial slicks - another thing about them is I don't believe they grow down track as the bias slicks do - but I don't think they are made any shorter than 29.5 inch. I'm sorry for ramblin' on but what your doing is so cool I just wanted to get the opinions from someone who is gonna race the same junior stocker that they raced back then. The time machine colesy mentioned ealier has been found.....you have it!

    Eddie
     
  3. Islandworker
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 165

    Islandworker
    Member
    from Illinois

    :cool:Perfect paint scheme for Memorial Day
     

    Attached Files:

  4. DW31S
    Joined: Mar 4, 2009
    Posts: 145

    DW31S
    Member
    from Sparks,MD

    Could one of you guys PLEASE do this for me (PRETTY PLEASE)? Please post the video of my shakedown practice at Capital. Just Google "David Siltman Nostalgia" and the Youtube video should pop up. I would do it myself if I knew how. The run was a VERY easy one----left at 4500, shifted at 4500, and left the exhaust on. The track was rental day, so needless to say it wasn't prepped too well. I also left the slicks and air bags hard on purpose because I just wanted to make sure everything went straight and stopped O.K. I plan to run a little harder at the Cecil County Nostalgia event on June 11. Anybody else going to be there? If so, make sure to stop and say "HI". Thanks in advance, and, until next time..... Dave.
     
  5. 67 W-30
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 350

    67 W-30
    Member
    from N.E. Ohio

    I am going to get a set of the "new" repop M&Hs to use on the car for show. I will race it with the modern day tire for best 60' times. I am currently running a set of the original 60s style Goodyear FRontrunners on those original Cragar S/S 15x4" wheels. Traction was big issue then on those 7" tires. Converters were just coming in vogue at that time --- Remember it was John Barkley winning 68 Winternationals with his A-1 Converter that set the stage for the "converter revolution"! A "new" hi-stall converter for the TH400 was way beyond my budget then (about $450) - What would that be in 2011 dollars??? I gained the most "measure of success" with my car by use of the "neutral start"! I could run close to .3 quicker than leaving in gear with my stock "switch-pitch" converter wired on "hi". I was one of the guys that NHRA pointed their finger at when they "outlawed" the NEUTRAL START. After that, I continued to get away with it at local tracks but never at a National event. The best the car ever ran back then was a 12.62. The first pass I made last week was a 12.48. Need i say anymore about tires and converters!! LOL. I just received a NEW ULTIMATE converter and will hav it in for the next outing.
    By the way -- I raced the same transmission for three years using "neutral start" and NEVER blew the trans. I eventually sold the car with that same trans having never done anything to it other than installing a shift kit!! Usually would "drop it" in gear at about 5500-600 rpm and then shift 2nd at 5800 - acted just like "dumping a clutch"!!
    Tweed
     
  6. Bob W
    Joined: Sep 14, 2008
    Posts: 687

    Bob W
    Member
    from Here

  7. DW31S
    Joined: Mar 4, 2009
    Posts: 145

    DW31S
    Member
    from Sparks,MD

    Thanks Bob W. I owe you one. I guess you can see (and hear) that I granny shifted and took it easy. We figure that car can run somewhere around 12.00--12.20 with a good track and a good tune. I'm more interested in having fun than setting any land speed records and I am trying NOT to be too hard on parts. 350 Olds, M21, 4:33. I'll try to keep everybody "up to speed" now on. Thanks again Bob.
     
  8. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,408

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    Uhhhhhhhhh, We need more video as soon as poss. That car makes a beautiful noise!
     
  9. X-TECH MAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2009
    Posts: 317

    X-TECH MAN
    Member
    from Florida

    Since you have a 4:10 gear I would use a shorter tire. Not a 26 inch. The bias ply 30 inch tire is growing way to much. The radials do not grow much. You can get a 29 (or 30) inch tire in 92 and 94 circumferance. The 88 inch circumferance tire would be better but Im not sure it comes as a radial. When I back to backed radials vs the bias ply tires it usaually ran about .12 quicker with the radials on every run. If they spin they wont recover like a bias ply tire though.
    There a lot of power to be had in some minor head work also. Since no one can see it anyway I would consider looking into some bowl blending and filling the heat riser. I doubt you will be driving it in the winter in snow and ice so the filled heat risers wont hurt the day to day driveability. Of course when you fill the dual heat risers the open header sound will sound like a chevy insted of the clucking sound of an olds or Pontiac engine......LOL. Dont forget to back cut the valves. Head work alone is worth about 3 to 4 tenths and about 3 MPH. I used to do a LOT of that type of work for bracket racers like the late Bob Maxey and his customers in the past. Its worth a LOT on Old's, Pontiac, and 440/383 MoPar engines.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  10. X-TECH MAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2009
    Posts: 317

    X-TECH MAN
    Member
    from Florida

    Heh Heh thats how my late friend Gene Collins won C/SA at the Nationals in INDY back in 1966. The starter (Buster) was watching the Super Stockers and not the stockers and he beat the C/SA MoPar of Pete Prestion ( a Jenkins powered car) in the class final.
     
  11. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    Member
    from Indiana

    Tweed,
    Thanks a bunch for the reply. Kinda feels like I'm bs'n with you in the garage or in the pits! Three years out of the trans with all those neutral starts is amazing! Really had no idea that it took $450 to buy a converter then - that's $25 less than I paid for my first "running" 55 Chevy in 1974!
    Your so fortunate to have gotten your Olds back! Best of luck and FUN to you and I'll be staying tuned to this channel!
    Hope you and other's don't mind an occasional question.
    Thanks again.

    Eddie
     
  12. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Matty K,

    The Centolanzo Brothers ran several cars before the 1968 SS/A Hemi Barracuda.
    They started off in 1965 with a D/SA 1965 273 Valiant, and
    a 426 Street-Wedge in A/S.
    They were based out of Highland Falls, and ran under Ron Pelligrinelli's shop sponsorship 'Mountain Garage'.

    In 1967, they bought a new 1967 GTX 440, and ran it in SS/EA.

    At the end of 1968, they bought Joe Arvay's 'The Pacifier' (Michigan)
    1967 R/O SS/DA Hemi Belvedere.
    That car they ran from 1969 thru 1971.
    Belvedere.
     
  13. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    Member
    from Indiana

    Dave,

    Cool video!
    You show great self restraint going down track!
    Understandable considering the historical significance of your Olds.

    Car looks beautiful and sounds great!

    Eddie
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  14. judge
    Joined: Aug 29, 2009
    Posts: 3

    judge
    Member
    from pa

    COLESY, i seen charlie lutz tonight and that was his biscayne .he sold it to bob chaivinsky. keep those old pictures coming.. they are great.
     
  15. 67 W-30
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 350

    67 W-30
    Member
    from N.E. Ohio

    Dave - you can sure tell that the car is way undergeard with that 4.33. you need to get the shortest tire possible if youre not wanting to go any lower in gears. That 3.50 can stand a 4.88 or 5.13 easily but that takes it away from streetability too!
    Looks lioke you got the front suspension loose enough since you pulled that wheel that easy!
     
  16. 67 W-30
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 350

    67 W-30
    Member
    from N.E. Ohio

    NHRA didnt ban neutral starts till either 67 or 68 - cant remember for sure(probably 67? - it was AFTER the mopar ( maybe Mancini or Wren exploded the tran on the line at Dallas??) there are pix out there of that car with all the parts laying in the track - I dont have the pic but im sure someone can supply it!! -- and thats when at INDY Nats they first displayed the little round sign on xmas tree that said - " NO Neutral starts"!! Buster watched EVERYONE then!!
     
  17. 67 W-30
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 350

    67 W-30
    Member
    from N.E. Ohio

    I do have the passages blocked and the siamese ports filled as well as some bowl work. Im gonna try the new converter before changing anything. It should be pulling wheels a little but it isnt right now! Gotta loosen the front susoension a bit too before i take it out again!!
     
  18. X-TECH MAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2009
    Posts: 317

    X-TECH MAN
    Member
    from Florida

    It might have been 67???? It was a long time ago but I do know he would have been out run if he had not neutral started it. That Jenkins powered Plymouth was fast. I thought it was 66 as the Mustang was a 271 HP 66 model.
     
  19. DW31S
    Joined: Mar 4, 2009
    Posts: 145

    DW31S
    Member
    from Sparks,MD

    Thanks for the interest everybody! And Tweed you're 100% correct. I run 27x9 MH tires. My good friend Jerry MacNeish did the M21 and tried to convince me to change first gear to a 2:52----I should have taken his advice. I had the 4:33 in mind because the the car does see a little street driving, but I think 5:13 or 5:38 or even 5:57 would make a world of difference. As for the front end, what you see is the 1969 set-up with a new pair 90/10 front shocks. The guy who did that front end was a line mechanic at the dealership and I spoke to him and showed him the car when I bought it. He said it remained in that same configuration so all I did was take it apart clean and paint it and re-install everything as it was. The rear suspension is a pair of 50/50 shocks and the tried and true Air-Lift bags. I also installed new rear control arms with adjustable uppers, but as of yet have not made any adjustments other than the stock length. Boy! Does that car work good!!! Until next time..... Dave.
     
  20. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,408

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    I was standing right next to a mopar at Kilkare Dragway in the late 60's that exploded like that. It was AWSOME! It sounded like a grenade went off!
     
  21. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    Member
    from Indiana


    colesy,

    Were the torqueflites the only trans that was having issue's with the neutral starts or just the most likely? Tweed has stated his th400 went through three seasons of neutral starts without any ill effects.
    Hi stall torque converters sure made life easier for the clean up crews.
     
  22. HPB43
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 14

    HPB43
    Member

    We neutral started our SS/EA Camaro for most of 1967 until NHRA outlawed it and had no problem with the TH400. With RPM as high as 7000 the launch was no more violent than just letting the clutch out in a stick car. All that is happening in the TH400 when low gear is engaged is that the low gear clutch is applied which was actually quite smooth. The torqueflites used an entirely different method of applying low gear and they would not tolerate very many neutral starts.

    After the neutral starts were outlawed we went to work on converters and camshafts and were able to qualify number one in Super Stock at the World finals in 1967 without neutral starting.
     
  23. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    Member
    from Indiana

    Thanks HPB43!
    That's detailed information a person could only get here! So you started using a hi stall converter in 1967? Would that have been from Marv Ripes at A1 or were Art Carr or others already producing them at that time? One last question, when you were on the line with the hi stall converters say in 68 or 69 were you at a low rpm and shocking the converter or were you on it hard? Sorry for all the questions but back then I could only learn what I read in the magazines. I've used hi stall converters since the 70's but I'd really like to know what it was like for you racers to use them back when they were new to everyone.

    Eddie
     
  24. HPB43
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 14

    HPB43
    Member

    Eddie,
    The converter that we used in 1967 was not high stall by todays standards but was a step in that direction. Our TH400 was built by Bill Waddill who also built the converter. We were able to stage at about 2000 without pushing the front tires through the lights which was a step in the right direction, and allowed the camshaft and Quadrajet to work without a huge bog. At launch the converter flash stalled at about 2500 if I remember correctly which should have been higher but it worked. I'm sure that Marv Ripes was a few steps ahead of that as far as stall speed and general converter development went.

    Herb
     
  25. Hi Herb!
    I am Bill Waddill's daughter; and just wanted to acknowledge your post about him.
    Kathy
    email krandart@comcast.net, if you want
     
  26. Simon and Biebel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Simon and Biebel
    Member
    from N.J.

    I saw Dick Aron's at one race with a Camaro Convertible.....396 auto..using a launch technique where he got the back tires turning as the tree came down......Back of car was kind of hopping but it seemed to work.....He was running SS/EA....That was at Maple Grove late 60's I'd guess.....
     
  27. HPB43
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 14

    HPB43
    Member

    Rich,
    Your memory is correct about spinning the tires. The SS/EA Camaro had to run the quadrajet and it was very difficult to be consistent because of the air valve. After NHRA outlawed the neutral starts both Arons and our car used the spinning method until many tracks outlawed that. On very hot days some asphalt would not hold up to it and we did some damage to the starting line. That made us get to work on the cam and carburetor package and the converter.

    Dicks car in 1967 was a hardtop and I believe he ran that in 1968 also. If he switched to a convertible it was probably in late 68 or 69. There is a picture of his 67 in the Tulsa write up in my photo album.

    Herb
     
  28. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    Member
    from Indiana

    Herb,
    That's exactly the kind of information I was hoping for!
    Thank you so much again for your detailed replies and your time!
    Information like this - is truly priceless!

    BTW Fantastic pictures in your album - the cars of SHAKER ENGINEERING!

    Thanks again,
    Eddie
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2011
  29. Simon and Biebel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Simon and Biebel
    Member
    from N.J.

    Herb....My partner and I raced with a T/K built engine and we were around their shop many times in 1969 and 1970. We also were at the original location Ralph worked out of....a gas station. We were at their newer shop when they were building and then running the Chevelle Convertible. I really liked SuperStock eliminator when it was put in as a seperate category from SS/A to SS/J and was usually out around the starting line if possible when those cars ran at a big event. We had a local SS group and very often some really big names were racing those events. Can't recall what event that was that Aron's was at....but I know it was Maple Grove and I think he went to the final round....Back end hoppin up and down every run....Automatics all were limited by the converter technology of the day....
     
  30. ahra vette
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 17

    ahra vette
    BANNED

    Guys, i just joined this fabulous website...have been looking at the pictures and replys for over 2 days...My claim to Fame with the "Jr Stock" was with the AHRA...ran the Grand American Series from 71 to 84...won 77 National Class win, 15 Eliminator titles, AND 12 runner-ups...That makes 27 out of 77 races in the Stock finals...we loved every minute of it...I have pictures of the car ..you would have to Google SPENCER & KNAPE RACING to read the write up and photos from Vette magazine...If some kind soul could look that up, and post one of the photos, i would sure appreciate it...I know nothing about cut and paste!..look forward to visiting to a lot of you...
     

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