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History NHRA Junior Stock

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by colesy, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. Our57
    Joined: Nov 2, 2009
    Posts: 60

    Our57
    Member

    '67 Camaro factory torque arms were on the right. For '68 they staggered the shocks and were able to eliminate the arm.
     
  2. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 667

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7


    There's no doubt that this was way ahead of its time. For what it's worth, even with the Tri-Fives being reinstated in Stock Eliminator, this item would not be in keeping with current rules. Slapper bars or similar traction aids will get the job done as efficiently and they don't require welding on the housing.

    c
     
  3. thunderkiss65
    Joined: Jan 6, 2008
    Posts: 122

    thunderkiss65
    Member
    from Detroit

    The one on the right is in my 65 club coupe 442. Been there for many a year, and it jumps around a lot. Nothing a slap to the side wont fix.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Simon and Biebel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Simon and Biebel
    Member
    from N.J.

    I had a '58 Pontiac Rochester Fuel Injection unit, complete in my basement for a number of years. I wanted to build a '57 Safari wagon street car and use that F.I. unit on a '58 engine I also had. I sold the F.I. unit and junked the '58 engine. I put an ad in National Dragster and sold that F.I. unit for around $300 in the early 70's......I paid $75 for it and took it off the orginal car it came on. Thought I made a nice profit on it!....I would love to have a '58 Pontiac Stocker with F.I. or even a Tri-Power......Trans would have to be some sort of trick late model....

    Those cars were tanks but my first really nice car was a '58 Chieftain. I loved that car! I did race it a number of times and got it to run in the high 14's and it was street driven......
     
  5. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 667

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    It remains to be seen how or even if NHRA deals with the unusual things associated with the early bodies. Accommodations were made for the Tri-Fives in Super Stock but little things like the crossmember needed to support a transmission that doesn't have motor mount ears built into the structure will need to be addressed. If everything were to be considered, probably the best combinations would be based on the dual quad Corvette motors, either 1956 or 1957, probably the '57 4-speed version. Of course, the 'Vette didn't come with the TurboGlide that has already been designated a 3-speed transmission and would make the Metric 200 a valid piece for a sedan or station wagon IF the crossmember issue could be resolved. As it stands, I don't see how even an aluminum 'glide would work in anything but a 'Vette. Lot's of questions to be answered before anyone throws $20 or $30K at one of them.

    c
     
  6. Simon and Biebel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Simon and Biebel
    Member
    from N.J.

    Chuck I don't think the crossmemeber issue would pose much of a problem. All the later model GM torque arm cars have add on crossmembers. The new "bogus" Drag Paks have a fabricated rear suspension that is more akin to a SS'er so there would be no big deal adding a crossmember. Those little engines would definately need a 3 speed to keep pace with the late models.....
     
  7. X-TECH MAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2009
    Posts: 317

    X-TECH MAN
    Member
    from Florida

    IHRA has been allowing the "Tri-Five" crossmember up dates and old cars for years in S/S, Stock, and Pure stock. I wonder what took NHRA so long to see the light?
     
  8. henry's57bbwagon
    Joined: Sep 12, 2008
    Posts: 677

    henry's57bbwagon
    Member

    Could it be dwindling numbers of both racers and spectators? (ex stock racer div 1)
     
  9. JrFuel
    Joined: May 22, 2007
    Posts: 116

    JrFuel
    Member
    from USA

    Here's my personal favorite - Ramon Lowe

    Larry
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 667

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Rich,

    My LT1 F-body has an added crossmember to permit the mounting of the torque arm but the rule book is silent on the issue of crossmembers to be added to mount non-stock transmissions. We've both been involved with NHRA long enough to know that all requests for rules variations are initially denied. They may be eventually approved but it takes time for the Rules Committee to process a request and issue a statement. One of the really open thinkers in the NHRA Tech Department is Dave Ley who lives somewhere in your area. I would begin any conversation directed toward having the addition of a non-stock crossmember to mount a non-stock transmission with Dave.

    At this time, as I read the current rulebook, a three-speed automatic transmission would not be accepted in any Chevrolet small-block car EXCEPT for models originally equipped with a Turbo Glide (that abomination of a transmission used from 1957 into the early 1960s), a TH350, or the TH400 (in late 60's Corvettes). The substitution of a modern transmission for the TG was approved a couple of years ago. If a modern 3-speed automatic had been legal in my 1968 Camaro, I would still have it instead of the fuel injected car. If 1957 cars had been legal in Stock all these years, I would still have my Junior Stock Corvette. But, I digress!

    Cheers,

    c
     
  11. POPSTAGE2
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 70

    POPSTAGE2
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Chuck,
    It was a pleasure meeting you and talking with you. It was truly awesome listening to all the stories from the past!
     
  12. 56 Pontiac I/SA
    Joined: Oct 17, 2008
    Posts: 746

    56 Pontiac I/SA
    Member
    from Maryland

    I JUST got the latest "Raleigh Classic" (car auction) catalog in the mail. Lots of potential GM & Mopar Jr. Stockers -- see ... www.raleighclassic.com .

    I luv the '57 Buick 'Caballero Estate Wagon' (pp 7). Have to wonder what class that the 4000 lb 'nailhead' behemoth would run in.
     
  13. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Cheap-Joe,
    The 1968 Road Runner could be purchased with a 383/335HP and/or a 426/425HP
    Street Hemi, ONLY.
    440 Super Commando's were not available in the 68' cars.
    As for classification in 1968, the 383's were classed in E/Stock, or if you were foolish enough to try, SS/F.
    Of course on the street, they were respectable, but on the track, the 383 struggled
    mightily.
    That 335HP rating was too high.
    The 1968 426 Street Hemi Road Runners were classed in SS/C in 1968, and could not run in the Stock class.
    PC
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  14. JrFuel
    Joined: May 22, 2007
    Posts: 116

    JrFuel
    Member
    from USA

    I just received these tires and wanted to show that they are in fact available in 15" wheel diameters with the correct nostalgia lettering and carcass. (look back @ my previous post #7623 for other sizes avail).

    Man these are narrow!!!

    Larry
     

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    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  15. Bob Rice
    Joined: Oct 25, 2008
    Posts: 366

    Bob Rice
    Member

    <big>Found these pics a few weeks ago on another site and received permission from the owner to post them.
    Bob Rice</big>
     

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  16. Simon and Biebel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Simon and Biebel
    Member
    from N.J.


    Chuck your right as usual with your post here my friend.....Dave Ley is a very good guy and loves racing, period. I had an LT-1 Firebird Stocker for a short period a few years ago and ran one of Dave Leys East Coast Stock /SS Assoc. races. Had a lot of fun and went a few rounds....Dave and his wife Gloria are at all the Div 1 races. They do some Tech and work the scales and help out wherever they can. I could not really see myself staying with the Firebird and sold it. I would rather run Stock or SS for sure as that is where my roots are.....but a duel duty bracket type car fits a lot better for me and thats what I have raced most over the years. The endless cost to keep up always drove me away from the class cars....Brackets cars can also be very competitive in one of the Super classes and thats where I always end up....NHRA should really stand for No Happy Racers as they are really passing a lot of garbage down to the racers these days.....I personally have had enough and stay local and bracket race. No rules hassles, a day of racing fun with my friends and I go home.......NHRA racing has pretty much become racing for the Rich and Famous/ retired/business owner.....with way to much time and money on his hands......To many days, to few runs and way to many issues to deal with anymore for my taste........Rich
     
  17. X-TECH MAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2009
    Posts: 317

    X-TECH MAN
    Member
    from Florida

    Dave and Gloria are good friends of mine and I agree with what you said about the "Junk" in class racing 1000%. I went to the Dutch again this year looking for a car (stocker) to buy :rolleyes: but I might have changed my mind after this trip and I wasnt even towing. The track was junk and several cars almost hit the wall in the right lane. Thursday had water coming up thru the track at the finish line. Its still the best race to go to for a class racer junkie. NO alcahol dragsters or Ha Ha cars. I saw that Bob Lang had brought some snow sleds in the show taking up track time from the real race cars. It was bound to happen sooner or later after several years of just sportsman cars. I drove and it was about 1200 miles up and 1200 miles back :eek:......UGH ! It makes local bracket racing and maybe some (SSSSA) circut stock/Super Stock racing seem very attractive for a retired old fart. :cool: I wish there was some nostalgia Jr. stock racing closer to where I live.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  18. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Cheap-Joe,
    The 1968 Road Runner hardtop weighed #3450 lbs. with the 383/335HP.
    It ran in E/Stock in 1968.
    That engine is now rated at 300HP by the NHRA today.
    With an 11.50 wt/hp factor, in 1968 it would have been classed in H/Stock.
    With that HP rating in 1968, it would have been a good car to run.
    Most Mopar racers would agree, that the 335HP rating by the factory was
    an over-rated fabrication. If you look, it is hard to find any successful
    383 Road Runners that were dominant.
    PC
     
  19. Simon and Biebel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Simon and Biebel
    Member
    from N.J.

    One of my younger friends bought a RoadRunner new in about 1970. All black 383 4 speed. I did some work on it and we raced it once. I drove it to a class win in G/S that day. 13.87 at about 101-102mph. We had some igniton problems and it was missing at any rpm over 5000 or so. I shifted it as soon as I heard it start to miss. Put a holeshot on an AMC 390 Scrambler for the trophy. He was running 13.6's so I must have really nailed him good.....That was a fun day and my buddy still has the trophy....
     
  20. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Rich,
    That 13.87 ET @ 101 MPH sounds 'right on' for those cars, with some modifications.
    That 10.00 - 10.49 weight bracket was very popular at Dover, New York back then.
    Always a good 10 to 12 cars in that '4-speed' Stock Class, every Sunday.
    I do remember the basic stock 68' 383 Road Runners with 3.23 gears running 14.90's.

    In mid-1968, the NHRA E/Stock minimum was 12.70
    And the E/SA record was 12.79.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  21. Simon and Biebel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Simon and Biebel
    Member
    from N.J.

    Paul.....I "cheated" the carburetor up some on that 383 RoadRunner....added headers and had a pair of 7" slicks from our racecar.

    The shifter was probably the longests 4 speed handle ever produced!!! If you were not carefull your hand would hit the dash going to third.......

    It was a really nice car and was cheap to buy. I think right around $3000....another friend had a 340 Duster in black and I really liked that car. It went low 14's and it also suffered from missing issues at the track.

    In the era before MSD ignitions it was a must to put fresh sparkplugs in a car that was driven to the track and especially if the headers were opened up!

    I think the RoadRunner needed better points and the Duster needed better plug wires and both needed fresh sparkplugs at the track.

    My buddy ran /MP cars from the eraly 60's and he always warmed his engine up first with old plugs and tuned the carbs and then put fresh sparkplugs in it to race.

    I have an "old school" buddy today who jumps on his spark plugs the instant he hears any kind of a miss in his seldom raced '67 Chevy II......it runs low 9's at 145+ with a 420cube small block, t-ram with 2 alcohol carbs. Big wheelie car....and thats how he likes it.....
     
  22. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Rich,
    You 'cheated' correctly.
    Biggest problem with that 383, an under-sized carburetor, and a single-point distributor.
    That 625 cfm Carter AVS was good on the low-end, but starved for fuel and air on
    the Top-End.
    The long-throw shifter, probably the horrible 'Inland' unit they utilized on the
    early 68' Road Runners. Possibly the worst piece of junk shifter ever manufactured.
    Paul
     
  23. BadNews
    Joined: Dec 7, 2009
    Posts: 96

    BadNews
    Member

    Larry,
    Those look great! They'll look so cool on your wagon! What did they set you back including shipping? I've thought about a pair....
    Kevin
     
  24. Bob Bender
    Joined: Sep 13, 2009
    Posts: 71

    Bob Bender
    Member

    Give me your info on the car and I will tell you.........
     
  25. 56 Pontiac I/SA
    Joined: Oct 17, 2008
    Posts: 746

    56 Pontiac I/SA
    Member
    from Maryland

    Thanks Bob ... Here's an image of the (auction) car ... notta clue what engine it has.



    [​IMG]

    ... just thought it would make a really-interesting Jr. Stocker!
     

    Attached Files:

  26. TMcCrea
    Joined: Aug 13, 2008
    Posts: 578

    TMcCrea
    Member
    from Maryland

    Terry - When you told me that you had driven from FL I did not realize you are living there. That's quite a drive!

    Tim Bishop was chatting with a guy when I arrived at the track. As he walked away, Tim told me it was the guy who bought his '68 Z-28 race car and had come from Vancouver, or someplace out there, to attend the race. Said he had never seen so many Stock and Super Stock cars.
     
  27. TMcCrea
    Joined: Aug 13, 2008
    Posts: 578

    TMcCrea
    Member
    from Maryland

    Rich,

    Back in 1972, after Brad Watkins sold his G/S '69 Z-28 to the Wheatley's, he talked me into making the '65 Chevelle I was building for the street into a bracket car. He was always a small block racer and wanted a high revving 4 speed car. I wanted one that would run in the fast ( 12.50 and under) bracket with little effort and maintenance.

    I built a 375/396, TH400, 4:88 rear, Winters 3500 converter and 10" tires that ran 11:60's @ 121 and hardly ever tuned it. There was a "big money" race in Sept. and we had run the same N65Y Champions all season so I figured I'd replace them. Damn car slowed a tenth so I put the old ones back in!

    The maintenance was such a joke that one Sunday I asked Brad if he had put some ice in the cool can and he said "I just put some in there two weeks ago!"
     
  28. Bob Bender
    Joined: Sep 13, 2009
    Posts: 71

    Bob Bender
    Member


    Give all the information u can about the car and i will do the best I can..........Hey Terry can U help ?????????
     
  29. BadNews
    Joined: Dec 7, 2009
    Posts: 96

    BadNews
    Member

    Any thought to throwing the idea out to the NMCA? I thought some years ago, they had a Nostalgia Junior Stock eliminator. I would certainly be in favor of it. I'm a member of the NMCA and run in Nostalgia Super Stock only due to the fact that currently there is no Nostalgia Junior Stock. I think if we can get enough people together, it might work. Any thoughts?
     

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