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Next project - 38 fiat topolino

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by maddog, Mar 22, 2007.

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  1. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    black
     

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  2. claymore
    Joined: Feb 21, 2009
    Posts: 896

    claymore
    BANNED

    O shit that is going to be one Nasty topolino when you drop that in there.
     
  3. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    engine is rebuilt, trans is done, 3 weeks of bodywork is done, nose pulls off, body is primered, all suspension components are primered, rearend is primered, frame is primered, other misc parts primered... everything with a heavy catylized primer.. very flat BLACK... engine & trans with flat black high heat paint....

    assembly starting tomorrow.... main computer died, 50+ pics to be posted over the next few weeks....

    600hp 520 lbs/ft torque < 1900 # < 8' wheel base
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
  4. Mat Thrasher
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,106

    Mat Thrasher
    Member

    Wow, how did I miss this thread. You do great work keep it up.
     
  5. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    get ready for a deluge of pics..... middle of the month at the latest.

    getting ready to fire the engine next week.

    fuel lines are plumbed with massive aeroquip filter, brake lines are 80% plumbed, trans lines are 50% plumbed all with stainless steel.... painted black
    it takes some time to design how to run all the lines since I don't want anything going under the frame, everything has to go thru the frame... and the car being sooo small if I didn't map ALL the lines out before starting to bend lines it would have been a nightmare. fyi my brother is THE reigning world champion of line bending.

    battery installed and wired using 2 gauge wire (black for negative and black for positive) also wired in remote lugs for easy access to charge.

    didn't like the fuel cell inlet neck plate that I bought... the angle was wrong and blah blah blah so I built a new one... filled the cell with blocks of correct foam after I used a gnarly resin type sealer inside the tank... better by far than "por 15", also used it to coat my radiator tubing.... not a fun job but didn't want any rusting action if I ever had to put tap water in the system (currently has anti freeze and distilled)

    front shocks literally fell apart last week (came with the project) soooo a few hours of research to find and buy the correct shocks for the front and springs for all 4 corners.

    put the car on scales..... front to back weight distribution is 50.5 - 49.5 and left to right side is 50.2 - 49.8

    cooling system is in and filled... designing a cool overflow bottle, actually a two part canister from an aluminum fire extinguisher that will hang in front of the oil filter on the side of the engine block...

    spent another 8 hours sanding the headers.... once your eyes adjust to the fine scratches in steel you can go to town, but until then good luck.


    I could go on and on but I'll leave it for the pictures... everything is shown, rebuilding the engine, what happened with it to need a rebuild, what happened to the transmission and what was the resolution with that.... what Curry forgot to do to the new axles I had built and all the other thrills that have been going on of late.
     
  6. jfrolka
    Joined: Oct 4, 2007
    Posts: 897

    jfrolka
    Member

    cant wait to see pics!!!!
     
  7. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    today was mapping out the seats day... I installed the throttle and brake pedal now its about finding the perfect balance spot of how high the bottom seat, and what angle, how high the seat back and what angle, where does my foot rest when driving, where does my arm rest relating to the roll cage and on the other side in relation to the bomber seat edge as I work the shifter, and the 5 point harness shoulder straps need to be at a specific angle 0 -10 degrees neg. to their mounting point... sooo like balancing on a ball... the seat back is an old bomber seat part that I removed 6" from the center of... the seat bottom is my own design made from carbon fiber / kevlar and thick weave fiberglass.

    designed a new steering wheel last weekend for the rod, sending drawings to machinist next week.

    built a flywheel shield yesterday from a carbon fiber kevlar weave.... that along with the trans blacket and the trans is covered.

    building another 2nd driveshaft loop (have the rear loop now working on a new front one) had custom driveshaft built... over kill to handle 850hp.

    had to build my own oil dipstick and tube and rework the trans dipstick and tube that I bought. had to remachine bushings for the throttle pedal assembly I bought... .007 tolerance on a moving part that needs to have .001 tolerance have to machine new bushings that reduce the slop.

    looking a lot like the engine fire up will happen this weekend, going to try and get some video online. getting closer to posting tons of pics on this blog....
     
  8. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    its official..my Mac G5 has an "end of life" situation.... such a pain in the ass... going to put off pics another week or two.

    all the lines are finished... brake lines, fuel lines, trans lines, overflow lines, carbon canister line (yes it even has a carbon canister)

    its amazing just how much $ gets spent on stainless tubing, A.N. fittings, and stainless braid flex...... 1000's.....

    and then of course I had to paint all that stainless and braid... black.

    looking forward to posting the line work my brother created, its really f ing amazing the work he does.

    looks like we are going to wire it this weekend... bought an 18 circuit fuse block from painless... had to buy specific wire (my brother is fanatical about his wiring... and his line work.... ) here's a link to the only wire he'll use http://wesbellwireandcable.com/UL1015.html

    I have a few days worth of brackets to built to finish securing all the lines, and one for the fuse block, and the carbon canister, and a few other things.

    I think there's a good chance of starting it after that... famous last words... (now I get multiple calls every week... "is it running yet?"
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  9. fiat gasser
    Joined: Sep 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,572

    fiat gasser
    Member

    good things come to those who wait. I am really looking foward to seeing your work and progress. Thanks for the update:)
     
  10. 35mastr
    Joined: Oct 26, 2007
    Posts: 1,899

    35mastr
    Member
    from Norcal

    Standing by for pic's and the burnout video.
     
  11. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    working on the seat frames currently... sort of burnt out from working on it every single day for the last couple months....

    figure if I push I can wrap it up in about 4-6 weeks.....

    here's a teaser pic from before all the lines went black

    note the aluminum canister behind the header.... overflow tank... it has a cool check ball that rises with the level in the tank.
     

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  12. GaryB
    Joined: Dec 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,530

    GaryB
    Member
    from Reno,nv

    truly bitchin ! thats a chunk of amazing work .can't wait
     
  13. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    here's a sample of my brothers line bending work. this is a view standing over the drivers side rear tire looking towards the passenger side rear tire.

    the fuel cell neck I built from scratch as the one I bought had oversized
    fittings which by the time I reduced them to my line size the fittings where sticking up 4".

    the line on the left goes down the back of the cell and under then over to the frame rail and feeds the electric fuel pump... the line on the right goes to the carbon canister. the three coils allows for any "burped" fuel to have the air bubbles released which lets the fuel flow back into the tank and the vapor to then get drawn thru the carbon tank.

    ...and then there is the sending unit which is for marine usage since my cell is entirely full of sponge material a float type sender just isnt going to work.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2010
  14. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    if things go according to some plan... I should be able to start putting pictures up by next weekend. The Mac died, the pc was dying but managed to straighten it out and tune it up... found a program to let my pc read all my mac files (pics) and an extenal "card reader" that actually utilizes a complete drive instead of a card....

    I currently have over 400 pics to go thru on the progress of the rod...

    going to finally get to wiring this upcoming week. Will be wrapping up the remaining lose ends on the little rod (minus the body)... while my brother wires everything (ought to take 3 days)... the following weekend I will start blocking the primer on the body, then either reprime reblock or spray the final satin black... and put the body back on the frame.... then get to the remaining interior needs, windows, wipers, headlights, etc.

    its a "finish it this month" thing going on.... we'll see how it works out
     
  15. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    ok.... I got the pc to read my mac drive so now I can start putting the pics up here.... I'll start with what happened with the engine and trans...

    the engine and trans that promoted as a fresh rebuild.....


    while cleaning the engine it appeared the rear main seal was leaking so I split the engine from the trans... and there it was.... 454's have a counterweighted flywheel... there is a 7th hole on the flywheel to locate the correct position for the weight in relation to the crank... there is suppose to be a dowel pin in the crank but almost all of them have been lost, however it is very clear to anyone with eyeballs how to correctly locate the 7th hole.... this flywheel was 120 degrees off from where it needed to be. (1st pic) upon seeing that I put the engine on a stand, drained the fluids, removed the pan, and rolled it over to remove the main cap.... (2nd pic) all the main caps where worn to copper on the sides and thru the arc of the cup they where chopped in as many as 10 places... basically indicating that the out of place counterweighted flywheel set up a harmonic vibration thru the crank that literally hammered the bearings.... we decided to roll it back over and do a leak down test on each cylinder... ugh.. on the 2, 4, 6, 8 holes you could literally feel the air flowing out of the exhaust port... all of those valves were not even close to seating, on the 1, 3, 5 , 7 holes you could hear the air flowing out but not feel it at the exhaust ports... nope, they where all flowing past the rings... ugh... well, next we pulled the rod caps and yeah all those bearings where hammered and coppered as well so we decided a full rebuild was needed. it is a true wonder how this engine ever ran at all? valves that don't close, rings that piss and if that's not enough, it had a solid tappet cam with hydraulic lifters? after the tear down the block and heads went out for a hot tanking and then to the machine shop for inspection. the crank was new but still had it sent out for magnaflux, the block is a virgin '71 hipo 454, decked once but all the original plugs still in place, original bore numbers, the pistons were new and had press in pins which require heat to press them in place and that requires holding the rods in a fixture as NOT to damage them..... guess what? yeah ALL the rods had dents across the i-beams which sets up a stress riser... no bueno the heads turned out to be 366ci heads, truck heads for the 454, no bueno I was in touch with maddog when all this started to unravel and he went after the guy he got it from ? not sure the outcome there but he and I are working it out, and he actually had the correct heads for the engine sitting in the back of his shop.... and while they needed a ton of work to fit, new hard seat, guides etc. it was the correct chamber size for the pistons to make compression.
     

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  16. maddog
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 693

    maddog
    Member
    from So Cal

    All true.
    Zoomer, I feel bad. That is beyond messed up.
    You have been real cool about it.

    I did a boat load of work to get that motor and trans. Stupid me. I believed my young friend when he told me it was a fresh, well built motor. Obviously, BS.

    Zoomer and I are currently negotiating to even things.
     
  17. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    pic #1 shows the original steel rear cam plug... all the freeze plugs on the sides of the block were pounded into place with a socket extension (almost dented clear thru the freeze plugs) I had the block dipped and ALL the plugs removed and replaced (even the tiny 3/16" ones)

    my brother and I did the rebuild over a couple weeks at night when we both had the time (mostly me assisting my brother, he's amazingly detailed about EVERY SINGLE STEP)

    I bought a new harmonic balancer and sent the crank, rods, pistons, pins, flywheel, harmonic balancer out to the balance shop...

    the heads needed a bunch of work, hard seats were needed along with valve job blah blah blah since I needed new valves I had them grind the new seats for larger valves. stainless steel swirl finish valves. Changed the valve springs to meet the new cam specs. Obviously new rings, new bearings etc. The roller rockers and push rods where in great shape and straight so I kept them.

    new rods, new cam just about 600 lift 330 duration, new lifters... actually got one that was cracked from the side oiling hole up to the top and down into the center.

    During assembly we also blueprinted the engine so we knew exactly how everything was fitting together.
     

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  18. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    more pics for the last post..

    note the 4 bolt mains
     

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  19. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    and then there was the issue of the oil pan... the pan that was on the engine was hammered and a new one was disgustingly expensive so I bought two steel oil pans and built exactly what I wanted, a deep 9 quart pan, with 2 drain plugs : ) at a later date I will detail what I went thru to build a dipstick and dipstick tube.
     

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  20. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    and then there was the cleaning and grinding off of all the casting slag and "stuff" I didn't want left on the engine before painting

    every company name was removed prior to paint... the intake needed a lot of grinding to get the names and excess material off... and to make the casting actually look good

    what kind of power does it make now? that's a good question, I have the answer but I am curious what you all think..... I'll reveal the hp and torque later on....
     

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  21. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    and then came the transmission.... when I cleaned it for paint something said drain it, flip it and remove the pan... YIKES!!! not just a crispy burnt smell but worn copper shaving everywhere indicating the bsuhing are gone and this "freshly rebuilt trans" was in the same condition as the "freshly rebuilt engine"....

    what to do? I research what I wanted and what the parts would cost me and then the couple of days to go thru it, then I got quotes for store bought trans'... wow just a stocker was over $1500....

    thankfully I am still somewhat connected. I spoke with the guys at Art Carr and they agreed that a TH400 is 35# heavier, takes more hp drain to run it, is larger, and is NOT stronger.

    That said I had them build me a bulletproof TH350 good up to 900hp, extra plates, hd clutches, 700r4 parts, big drum, sprag gear, hd pump, deep pan etc., reverse manual valve body, trans brake, 3100 stall converter.

    pic #1 is the old 350 pic #2 is the new 350

    I have to admit I was a big rusty when it came time to doing the math ie: tire height, gear ratio, cam lift, compression, torque curve, stall speed etc... and yet its a complete waste of time and money if you don't sit down and match all your components to each other BEFORE you throw down the cash...
     

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  22. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    and then there was the final welding of the frame.... after I had built the roll cage and changed a few things to the lower rails and had heavily tacked everything together making sure it all remained square I pulled my bro in for a day of welding as he is a certified frame welder.
     

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  23. GaryB
    Joined: Dec 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,530

    GaryB
    Member
    from Reno,nv

    that really sucks about the engine&trans, but now know exactly what you got ,drive the shit out of it
     
  24. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    lets talk brakes....

    pic #1 shows the booster master cylinder from outside the frame rail. this pic shows how little is hanging below the frame itself, I did bring it up into the floor to accomplish this however I'm happy with the balance of above and below.. not to mention I hate seeing boosters hanging down below a car... the four sockethead cap screws run thru the frame into the mount I built.

    pic #2 is a side view from inside the car with the trans tunnel (and trans) not installed. the floor panel IS inplace giving the "above and below" the floor view

    pic #3 is more of #2 from a diff angle

    pic #4 is the linkage I had to built... now here's what had to happen

    there are 5 bolts in this picture, two across the top, one in the middle, and two across the bottom... the main brake arm used to mount on the upper left side bolt, the problem was I needed a long arm for leverage but at that mounting point the brake pedal would have hit the dash... sooo I built a new arm lever that looks like an "L"... then built a lower pivot point which allows a long throw with a brake pedal at the right height in the car... the original pivot point has another small "L" pivot arm. when I press on the brake pedal the lower leg of the "L" moves down, which "pulls" the smaller "L" which "pushes" the the rod into the booster.

    I bought a booster master mount / pedal assembly for a mid 50's Ford PU and then rebuilt it 3 times : ) the only remaining part is the flat plate that the booster actually bolts to.

    have to throw up one more pic at some point, the lower left bolt and the upper left bolt are now both speed wired to the booster mount frame... didn't want to allow for any movement.
     

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  25. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    did I ever mention that ALL the hardware ie: nuts bolts washers screws etc. are new grade 8....
     
  26. fiat gasser
    Joined: Sep 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,572

    fiat gasser
    Member

    Damn nice work! Great planning and thought are making for a first class build. Keep us posted.
     
  27. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    will try to post 1-3 topics a night until I am caught up. still have 300 pics on my camera I haven't even looked at. little rod is being wired currently (started thurs, maybe done sat or sun)
     
  28. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    well I sorted the 300 pics into folders and while that takes them out of order as to how things were built it does allow for a much more complete record of each part from start to finish. (ex: the overflow tank was in the works for 2 months, that would have been a painful constant update)
     

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  29. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    can't get this site to upload pics
     
  30. 35mastr
    Joined: Oct 26, 2007
    Posts: 1,899

    35mastr
    Member
    from Norcal

    Looks bad aas. Now we need a vid of the burn out.
     
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