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Next project - 38 fiat topolino

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by maddog, Mar 22, 2007.

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  1. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    and now for some line work.

    fuel lines first;

    all the lines are stainless steel and these pics show most of them before I painted them black.

    my brother does some really clean tight bends with SS which is NOT forgiving, you either hit the mark dead nuts or start over, and at $3 + a ft for this stuff missing the mark was not much of an option : )

    pic #1 is the shorties from the fuel regulator to the carbs, super tight multiple angle bends

    pic #2 is looking from front to rear across the d/s of the carbs and shows just how close everything is up there. The throttle cable etc.

    pic #3 side angle

    pic #4 fuel line running under d/s floor

    pic #5 from the fuel pump over to the frame, around the corner and down the battery support

    pic #6 another angle from the fuel pump to the fuel filter and forward under the d/s floor.

    I ran an aeromotive fuel filter with a large stainless steel filter, and yes I painted it all black
     

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  2. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    a couple more fuel line pics and then a few trans lines pics

    pic #1 from the fuel cell inlet across the top, down the back, under the tank , and over to the rail and into the fuel pump. from the fuel cell inlet across the top up thru 3 spirals, back across the top, down the back, and further down to the carbon canister (better pics of the back to follow in later wiring pics) the 3 spirals allow any fuel that might burp oout of the cell along with vapor to drain back into the cell when the bubble bursts going up thru the spirals.

    pic #2 the plate with the two holes to the left is the throttle pedal assembly mount plate, beyond that will be the firewall, beyond the firewall
    you see the brake booster vaccuum line directly below the throttle plate, going from right to left across the top is same line in "hard" form running up to the back of the manifold. the line running straight down that has some red showing (not for long) is the fuel line from the carbs, the other line dropping down (the right side) is the overflow line from the water neck to the tank, via wrapping around the block. the two little line clamps are mounted to the coil mounting bracket, and yep its the coil on the right. it all looks a bit dirty in the pic but its tasty in person.

    trans lines;
    pic #3 trans lines; from the case at the left side of the pic, across the front of the trans and down the d/s and then into the braided lines that run to the trans cooler (yes those to are black)

    pic #4 trans lines from case, and dip stick tube that needed a wee bit of shortening... also shown is the mounting bracket similar to the coil bracket and the engine block to frame ground strap.... in case you are wondering what is one the trans case at the bell housing area I touch on that in a few more posts

    pic #5 from left to right and top to bottom.... the speedo sensor is on the top left... the small line is brakes, from the master to the rears, right under it is from the master to the p/s front... the large one in front and below is the fuel from the carbs back to the pump... there's also the two trans to cooler lines as well as the cooler which runs its own fan. At the top right you can see the lines all go in their own directions and there is also the 2 gauge battery cable thrown in because I had a lot of extra room...

    it has been really difficult to NOT tear it apart and sand the primer and paint the frame... I buried this frame in a hardened primer and intentionally did NOT paint it because I knew that I would be making a ton of changes to the frame as more parts were adjusted and things were added etc. and while its a good decision its still hard to not have a shiny painted frame

    pic #6 all the same as #5 from a different angle... like a freeway overchange
     

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  3. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    brake line time;

    pic #1 the fuel lines in and out of the filter and in front is the brake line from the master to the pressure switch and up to the T which then splits to the calipers (everything with a cool little clamp)

    pic #2 top view of #1, the blue thing is the IN to the fuel pump. You can see the pressure switch and the line running left to right then it turns skyward and jumps to a braid line to the rearend

    pic #3 close up of a pic from the last post... a bit tight on space but nothing touches, everything is clamped and doing its thing.... and my frame that irks me that I ought to jump in there and sand it and ahhhhh, just follow the original game plan, ok ok moving right along with the blog

    pic #4 coils out of the master (for vibration) and back thru the frame, along with the trans to coller lines, and one line coming forward to the d/s front caliper

    pic #5 I mounted the front calipers on the "under and back" location... I can't stand calipers right up on top with a big line swinging in the breeze that is visible a mile away... these braid lines are tight and mirror the axle and work within the allowable parameters for bend without an under or overbend in steering lock to lock... (I think I blogged on the big wilwood brakes front and rear already, love the speed wired together thing)

    pic #6 on the p/s the braid is the same fitment. I posted previously about the pan hard rod coupler I had machined and then weled to the axle bolt... to keep the bolt from rotating in the event the pan hard rod is "motivated" to relocate, I fabbed a plate that I welded to the front of the coupler and it has the king pic lock bolt pass thru it and then the nut locks everything in place

    pic #7 all though it looks like we have sprung a leak its not the case, I sprayed some cleaner and forgot to let it dry, ok moving along... this pic is from the d/s looking across to the p/s and its the hard line running down the frame rail then jumping to a braid line and then jumping to a hardline to come out the front arm to the caliper, doesn't have clamps installed in this pic
     

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  4. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    and more brake lines;

    pic #1 d/s brake line runs along the inner frame and up over the booster assembly then drops straight down where it jumps to braid line and a 90 the jumps to a hard line to run along the arm to the caliper. behind the braid line is the fuel line dropping from the carbs and running back to the pump, the brake pedal lever arm is behind the fuel line

    pic #2 p/s caliper from the back side view, where you see the hard line pop up from under the shock collar there is a clamp at the union

    pic #3 d/s different angle

    pic #4 the unions I bought were to big on the OD and held the lines out away from the front suspension arms to I cut them down and milled 2 flats

    pic #5 running along the p/s arm to the caliper.... and of course the required double oil drain plug set up

    pic #6 the up line from the pressure switch line to the rear end and then going both ways to the calipers. you can also see the pan hard rod mount I weled to the housing, one radiator line, the rear driveshaft loop /ujoint cover (more to come)
     

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  5. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    last 2 brake lines and 2 on gauges


    pic #1 from across the top of the axle tube this line turns towards the back of the car, arcs arcoss the top of the tube then turns out and around the 4 link brackets then back to the axle tube and a final turn to the caliper... ** this is an early pic... where the line travels across the 4 link brackets there is a brace welded in and the line is clamped to that. I'll get a current pic later

    pic #2 and of course the same thing on the p/s... should have shot these pics at the same angle so you can tell that they are exactly the same

    pic #3 I did some math and layed out the gauges with the space I have left over with the steering column mount in place. if they only told me in school that I would use the math for hot rodding....

    pic #4 speedo, tach, oil pressure, water temp, volts, fuel level... going to dial them so each gauge is reading correct if the needle is pointing straight up. once the body is mounted I will mount the gauge plate
     

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  6. Rob Kozak
    Joined: Aug 18, 2005
    Posts: 442

    Rob Kozak
    Member

    Fanfuckintastic!!!
     
  7. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    trying to stay focused these days... was working on the limiting straps and bump stops yesterday, doing finish bodywork on the steering wheel last night... decided to start wet sanding the primer today..... tired of having three cars in a two car garage (body is on a cart, frame is on dollies, and my magnum wagon) makes for a tight squeeze parking the magnum at night so I was trying to get the frame wrapped up so I could place the body blah blah blah

    Here's some assembly detail pics;

    pic #1 no words needed I think

    pic #2 radiator and fan mounted in assembly frame (fyi, these fans will
    lift a skirt at 50 paces)

    pic #3 radiator mounted... a good view of the extra plates we welded to the frame at all the joints that carry load

    pic #4 the stuff that makes a gas tank into a fuel cell (or at least one of them) this foam is great, cuts easy, fits nicely, not affected by fuels. I filled the tank completely with about 8 bars of it. I think it was $12 a bar.

    pic #5 on the right is the inlet plate I bought... everything was too oversize, on the left is the plate I made that later turned into my inlet plate with the correct fittings for my application.
     

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  8. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    a few more;

    pic #1 this is the stuff I coated the inside of the fuel cell with. Its a two part resin that actually is used to fix por15 when that stuff fails. I also used it to coat the inside of all my radiator tubes... that was fun. I had to tape one end closed, then pour a bunch in the tube and spin it around for a bit then pour it out and keep turning it as it cured.... woo hoo party.

    pic #2 top view of the rear pan hard rod. you can also see the breather for the rearend... I have since changed the breather location... it comes out and then up, so the breather is straight up and about 8" higher than in the picture.

    this pan hard rod was tricky because I did not have the room to bring it forward at a 45 degree angle nor did I have the room to run it under the rearend... sooo I had to do some math.

    I knew that I wanted the rod to sit as horizontal as possible at ride height so as it moved up and down with the rearend the arc it traveled thru would be as small as possible understanding that at a certain point at the top and bottom of the arc the pan hard rod would bind by pressing the rearend against the 4 link bars.

    After the bump stops were installed so I knew absolute up travel of the rearend, and after the limiting straps were installed so I knew the absolute down of the rearend, (all calculated based on the shock shaft limits and the spring rate) the pan hard rod starts to bind the rearend 1/2" above and 1/2" below the allowed travel of the rearend. So as long as I don't drive around without the limiting straps or bump stops I'm good : ) Its always nice when the time spent planning stuff out actually works out as the numbers indicate they should.

    pic #3 another angle
     

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  9. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    and the wiring begins;

    pic #1 built a nice bolt in box for the painless fuse block (of course my brother had to get inside the fuse block and swap out a few wires he feel sthey use too small a gauge wire on

    pic #2 remote lugs mounted to the frame... can't easily access the battery when the body is on and the interior panels are installed

    pic #3 the frame rail on the right will not be exposed when the body is on so you can tell how much of the remote lugs will be exposed. The large black cylinder in behind the red cap is the carbon canister in the center of the frame

    pic #4 on the left is the positive coming from the starter to the terminal and coming in from the remote lug. On the right is the ground to frame. ...and of course my 1300 amp battery : )

    pic #5 starting to map out the switch panel

    pic #6 and the back side not 100% on this panel as yet... and for those of you with a keen eyeball... the right side of this panel actually sweeps back at more of angle... gives a nice look when mounted in place. (thought the e brake handle might be going there so it WAS form following function, but now its just form for form sake)

    I'll be posting some further wiring pics with everything wrapped and tied and orderly, but for now... enjoy the carnival : )

    pic #7 just an earlier front view shot... you can see the water neck coming out of the front of the intake manifold and the radiator cap on TOP of the intake manifold.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
  10. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    the shifter mount... I blocked the shifter in place on top of the trans tunnel and taped it in place... now, to transfer that location I bent up a piece of cardboard to get the height and angle and then messured from the firewall to get location, then I could remove the shifter and tunnel and start fabbing

    pic #1 shows the cardboard and the mount, which I lowered into the tunnel a wee bit more.. I built the first one then remembered I needed room under the mount for the trans blanket... this is mount #2

    pic #2 using the tail shaft cover mountign points

    pic #3 the main bracket, then there are two cable brackets on the right side that use the cable wanting to straighten out to hold itself in the bracket... there's the lever to the transmission shaft... and the cable stabilizer that mounts to the trans pan bolts on the back and side of the case.

    pic #4 shows the path of the cable... used the blue tape so I didn't scratch the cable casing (its annoying when that happens) if you look on either side of the white wire (trans brake module) you can see the same cable brackets working. the large bolt directly under the shifter is now replaced with a correct length bolt.

    pic #5 shows the lever in place and the cable end stabilizer in place, also shows the notch in the trans x member for the cable as shown in the next two pics

    pic #6 I had to notch the trans x member for the cable to slide under the floor

    pic #7 cut and welded a slice of tubing in place to keep the strength
     

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  11. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    pic #1 the shifter with the tunnel in place... in 3rd (reverse manual valve body... Hurst pistol grip

    pic #2 in park

    pic #3 starting to build the box

    pic #4 more box
     

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  12. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    pic #1 and still more box

    pic #2 the aforementioned "switch panel"

    pic #3 mounting tabs etc....

    ok the first pic didnt post but its not needed...

    I'll do the driveshaft loops in a day to two along with the head rest bar.
     

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  13. Rob Kozak
    Joined: Aug 18, 2005
    Posts: 442

    Rob Kozak
    Member

    Forgive me for not reading more but you mention baffels on your zoomies. Did you make them or purchase? OK I WENT BACK AND READ!!
    Now more questions
    You used 2" pipes, what was the wall thickness?
    I noticed you had a bit of trouble with fitment. What ID pipe were the baffels for?

    Please keep updating!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
  14. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    I went back and could not find where I wrote about pipe size? anyway, I measured and I actually used 2 1/4" OD tubing for the pipes with a .075 wall thickness.

    the baffles (there is a link to them somewhere on this blog) were a bit of a hassle, I ended up cutting most of the flange off of each end of the baffle, I have no idea what ID the baffles were made for but once I cut the flanges mostly off they went in well, the only draw back being the screw for fastening them in place was removed with the surgery.... then again they weren't really going to come out easily anyway.... I drilled two holes in each pipe for a spot weld to hold the baffle at each end.

    They do cut the sound... sort of... actually now that the engine has about 30 minutes of run time the pipes have gotten quieter at a noticeable level, of course its still LOUD but that's what hot rods are all about right?
     
  15. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    lets talk drive shaft loops

    pic #1 is a top view from over the rearend, I built two loops that encircle the driveshaft while giving it a full range of motion

    pic #2 shows the tip I put in the front loop to match the angle that the drive shaft runs in

    pic #3 I added these "fingers" (only tacked in place in the pic) that extend out over the u-joints.... no no not paranoid, just overly prepared. 1/4 " plate

    pic #4 after welding in the fingers I layed up 4 sheets of a carbon fiber / kevlar weave mix to create a protective cover for the u-joints
     

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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  16. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    more protective work;

    pic #1 I masked off an area on the trans case to lay up a flywheel protective shield from the same carbon fiber / kevlar weave.... you need
    a really big industrial pair of scissors ($54) to cut thru this stuff

    pic #2 3/8" of material layed up and then trimmed and cleaned up

    pic #3 the trio of protection... with one more to come

    pic #4 one trans blanket coming up... I am always amazed at people that build small vehicles with power and assume that the trans tunnel and floor are bullet proof... perhaps its denial?

    I am protected if the flywheel comes apart, if the trans comes apart, if either u-joint comes apart, if the driveshaft twists up.... basically the entire length of moving parts that run thru the passenger compartment are encapulated in case of failure under stress.
     

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  17. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    I figured I throw these in here... there are more interior pics to come

    pic #1 is looking at the firewall (guess I don't really need to say that)

    pic #2 is looking at the rear panel

    I almost cringe when I look at these.... its such a long time ago. 7 days a week for 5 month was starting to show today as I stumbled around trying to figure out which end is up... figured out the paint I am going to use... no one will ever believe it.
     

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  18. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    the seats / harness dilema

    first off the seats are NOT finished as yet, so there will be pics later of the changes that have occured even since these pics.

    when laying out the 5 point harnesses and reading the instructions for correct installation I noticed that is said they wanted the shoulder harnesses mounted "as close" to the shoulders as possible.

    pic #1 you can see from this pic that the harnesses had to reach back 10" to the rear roll cage bar and that was too far, also it got really busy by the fuel inlet tube and lines.... so I mocked up the bar running across the front and top of the fuel cell as an idea. I figured out quick that I if I welded the bar in I would never be able to get the fuel cell out. time to design and machine.... again

    pic #2 my brilliant little scribble

    pic #3 what my brilliant little scribble turned into.... a bit overkill but that's the way I do it.

    pic #4 the cross bar is a bit thicker than the roll cage tubing @ .125 wall
    the ends are spaced out of the tube a bit and with a taper for solid weld penetration... the ends are 1" into the tube ends.
     

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  19. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
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    pic #1 cross bar set in place dialing in the clearance above the fuel inlet

    pic #2 then there was the tabs for the harnesses... they generally want the tabs pointing forward so the stress is pulling directly on them, I had to calculate the proper angle on the back side so the stress was still pulling directly into the tab. (it made for an even tighter fit at the fuel inlet... in fact I have to bolt the harness strap for the outer passenger in place first and then bolt the cross bar in place) I used grade 8 bolts and cut the heads off then welded them in the tabs from the bottom. (I used grade 8 for everything on this rod, at what point does it become a sickness?)

    pic #3 head rests.... looks simple, look closely and you will see a slight arc in the tube across the top... I wanted to run inside the harnesses, however the height was not enough. I left these in place and actually today I worked on a secondary "floating" upper structure to finish these off (will post those pics in the future)

    pic #4 nice little lay back tip as well....

    I need to sand the headers again since the engine break in colored the pipes and I now have "clear" hi heat paint to spray. Also going to wrap the pipes about 30% with heat wrap, black of course, also decided to put a pressure valve in the radiator overflow tank.

    the brake pedal drops on first pump after its been sitting... bought 3 residual valves today that have to go in the system. The calipers are just slightly above the master cylinder so we are getting some bleed black into the master.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  20. Rob Kozak
    Joined: Aug 18, 2005
    Posts: 442

    Rob Kozak
    Member

    Is that a "store bought" tunnel around the trans? If so where?
     
  21. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    the tunnel was bought from Alston chassis, add to that about 20 hrs of work and you have whats in the picture. : ) www.cachassisworks.com

    the trans tunnel and drive shaft tunnel are seperate purchases and not that expensive, the trans tunnel is two "sides" that meet in the center... they are rather wide (or maybe its just that my rod is really small?) then I had to trim the centers, trim and build for the trans case, change the angles here and there etc. the driveshaft tunnel is several pieces that I sliced and altered to allow for the tunnel to drop lower in the center of the car....
    it was all probably the basic metal slow dance to make something big fit something small.

    in hind sight I'd probably just start from scratch if I were doing it again, but I'm NOT doing it again. the floors have a support along the edge that the tunnels screw to, and the firewall and rear panel and floors all screw into place so I can completely remove the interior if I really needed to..... or if I follow the plan to disassemble the rod next year and paint everything.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2010
  22. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    well my initial thought for a paint direction didn't work on larger areas soooo I did a bunch of research on the different "satin" finishes out there and it seems that most of them react the same way... ie: the more paint you apply the shinier the finish becomes.

    I know from past experience that if you have acrylic enamel (centari) you can mix flattener right into the paint and control the level of shine you want, after adjusting the mix it never gets more shine no matter how much paint you apply. Of course the only problem is acrylic enamel is no longer available in Los Angeles county.... it would be great if only I could find a company in San Diego county that not only has the product I need but also ships it everywhere... hmm if only... I guess the only downside is that it would probably cost about $450 for everything I'd need.... if only...
     
  23. Holly monkey!! That thing has come a long way. It seems like only yesterday that I saw the body hanging around Maddog's shop.

    It's looking pretty good. Can't wait to see the final product. Keep up the good work.
     
  24. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    I based the rod with black to make sure I had enough flattener to get it done... it looked so good shiny... and since all the test panels I did for the satin finish just didn't flash 100% consistent I stayed with the gloss.

    here's a few pics in the booth.... after it cures for a week or two I'll colorsand it polish it then I will probably lay some flames on the nose and doors and have my striper use my flame pattern as a guide and have some dark blue flame tip outlines.

    fyi pics are from my phone
     

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  25. kma4444
    Joined: Sep 24, 2008
    Posts: 197

    kma4444
    Member

    Beautiful project. Just read the thread all the way through. Nice
     
  26. claymore
    Joined: Feb 21, 2009
    Posts: 896

    claymore
    BANNED

    YAY that shinny black paint looks GREAT. It will really compliment the great work you did getting all the seams "just right".
     
  27. fiat gasser
    Joined: Sep 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,572

    fiat gasser
    Member

    what he said x2! The Fiat looks soooo good.
     
  28. Tarlo
    Joined: Dec 7, 2008
    Posts: 186

    Tarlo
    Member

  29. Zoomer
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 222

    Zoomer
    BANNED

    thanks for the coolness:
    hot rod Michelle
    kma4444
    claymore
    fiat gasser and
    tarlo

    I appreciate it... every little bit helps as I try to finish this little rod up...

    working on the air cleaner the last 2 days... probably another 2 to go..

    figure on getting the air cleaner, head rest bar, and seats wrapped up by the

    weekend...

    the rainy weather and a friends wedding sort of got me a bit side tracked
     
  30. GaryB
    Joined: Dec 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,530

    GaryB
    Member
    from Reno,nv

    really want to see this bad boy on the road
     
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