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"Newer" Hemi's

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by VonXulu, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. VonXulu
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 371

    VonXulu
    Member
    from Ventura Ca

    Has anyone used one in their project(s) yet? I got a line on a "newer" 2008 5.7 Dodge Hemi for CHEAP. Was thinking bout running it in a closed hood full fendered hot rod. What do you guys think? Can they look cool? If anyone has a pic of one in a rod, I would appreciate if they could post it up.

    Thanks.
     
  2. You can get carbed manifolds for them. That said, it'll never look "old".
    But I guarantee it'll haul- my 06 Ram sure does! ;)

    JK
     
  3. ol gasser
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 333

    ol gasser
    Member
    from here

    It is not a Hemi .It is a f head .The factory site will tell you that.Hemi in name only.
    Spark plugs in the middle of the head does not make it a hemi .
     
  4. VonXulu
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 371

    VonXulu
    Member
    from Ventura Ca

    Right, I knew that. They are just calling it a "hemi" for maketing puposes. But, stock it makes like 345 HP. Besides, this one I got a line on has two plugs per cylinder something called "Sure fire" or whatever. Will most likely be ugly and not "Traditional" but will haul ass and the price is right. Thats why my thoughts are "closed engine compartment". I dont know but it sure has stuck in my mind.
     

  5. f1 fred
    Joined: Apr 29, 2005
    Posts: 514

    f1 fred
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from mn

    My wife drives an 05 magnum with the hemi, its an awd car and still pulls hard the big motor cars are rated at 425 h.p. I think Hot Rod did an article, with some aftermarket bolt ons and tuning you could run up close to that. I would grab that motor fast!
     
  6. It's closer to a Poly style head than a true "HEMI", but it's definately not a wedge style.
    If someone could devise a valve cover that looks more "trad", it would be a really cool alternative to the SBC... otherwise it just looks too "new". But then again, a 426 style HEMI looks too new to me, too. :p
    JK
     
  7. holeshot
    Joined: Sep 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,519

    holeshot
    BANNED
    from Waxahachie

    VON...if it's CHEAP it's hot, and i mean that in 2 way's. hey brother it's your hotrod. and you did say CLOSED HOOD. i believe 1 can use any engine and still be traditional. hell the H.A.M.B. members just voted no.1 for a roadster that didn't even SHOW the engine!...POP.
     
  8. VonXulu
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 371

    VonXulu
    Member
    from Ventura Ca

    Lol, I know what you mean, but this one isn't stolen I would be buying it from a reputable garage. I think I am leaning towards doing it. It is just too tempting.
     
  9. Straightpipes
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,084

    Straightpipes
    Member

    Who cares what it is. If it's cheap and you can make it fit you are hotrodding:D Thats what this stuff is all about.
     
  10. 1931S/X
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 667

    1931S/X
    Member
    from nj

    i have been researching this for a while for my duster. the electronics side is expensive no matter what you do for fuel. they can be made to look older, some fools might mistake it for something old but it wont look like any other hemi. guys are doing all kinds of stuff to try to make threm look old. i think it iswhat it is, why try to fool everyone. if you think its a good deal, go for it.
     
  11. someone makes a timming cover to convert to distributer. take all the junk off the valve covers fill in the unneeded holes and have them cromed. or get vick elderbrock to make a nice pair.
     
  12. Earlier today I looked at a Street and Performance dressed out 6.1 in an early 30s Dodge five window coupe. Lots of chrome and polish. Not to my taste but impressive none the less.

    My understanding is that the aftermarket has been slow in bringing out wiring harnesses and stand alone ECM/ECUs for these engines. Mostly because Chrysler would not release the codes. This is apparently no longer an issue.

    If you like it then use it. There are several books out on performance improvement. And the MOPAR magazines have useful articles.
     
  13. As someone who has two and someone who has built engines and taught the discipline i will tell you it is very much a Hemi in the full sense of the word. It does have a ledge or quench area at the outside of the chamber but to not call it a hemi is foolishenss. Jag sixes which are also (XK series sixes, not AJ6 series)a hemi were very similar in design as far as the chamber went. "This it is not a hemi" stems from a desire of folks in love with the old 331-392 series and even 426 series to discredit the new one. I have had and enjoyed both though and have no problem with the new one. The valves are oppossed and inclined , The chamber is like 1/2 a grapefruit skin. It is a not a fully machined chamber like the earlier designs (and may not be absolutley perfectly symetrical because of that although an afternoon in my mill could take care of that in short order) but is is hemispherical in shape and has all the right stuff to take advantage of that design. It is not an F head by the way. that is something entirely different from the far past(Willys Jeep). I can provide pictures with in the hour if you like.There are four 5.7 heads sittng in my shop right now. To define this revised and improved design as "not hemi" is just sour grapes. We, us Mopar guys, should be on these like dirt on a pig because they are plentiful, powerful, inexpensive and have unbelievable potential. But no. We engage in a war of semantics over whether this is a hemi of something else. Well it isnt a wedge. it isnt a pent roof. It isnt a poly It isnt a flat head or an F head. Call it what you will but it is oppourtunity just waiting for us to take advantage of it. Cylinder head flow on 5.7 can be easily brought to 340 CFM. That is unbelivable for an engine of this size and production castings. Aftermarket heads for many engines do not flow that much even now. 6.1 heads are regularily reachng 370 cfm after cnc porting. That will support at least power levels to 760 hP with the right camming and compression. (normally the exreme is about 2.2 Hp per cFm but I used 2 because it is always better to figure conservatively. )To my knowledge so far there are no solid roller cams or adjustable rockers avaialable yet but already many shops are already exceeding already 600 Hp on hydraulic roller set ups. (Race engines) The bottom ends are completley crossbolted, The Oil pump and oil system very serious design. Extreme effort has been made to stop oil windage from interfering with power production.
    Saying it is not a Hemi is akin to saying a 68 and later 440 mopar is not a wedge since it also has a added quench area or relief around the outside edge of the chamber(probably for the exact same reason). I think we should be drag racing and street rodding these new hemis rather than playing word games about them. They are a gift!
    Don
     

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  14. chevy57dude
    Joined: Dec 10, 2007
    Posts: 6,586

    chevy57dude
    Member

    You aren't going to find a lot of love for them around here.That said, I love the 6.1 in my wife's Charger. 425 hp & 420 lb/ft torque in a comfy tight handling family sedan that tops out at almost 170mph. 8.78 in the 1/8 mile in a 4000+lb car. Too bad half of the car is plastic!
     
  15. Gigantor
    Joined: Jul 12, 2006
    Posts: 3,825

    Gigantor
    Member

    I have a Dodge Ram with the 5.7 and it HAULS ASS. If you could figure out the electronics, that alone would be admirable, but if you were running it in a closed hood I'd say go for it.
    Trying to dress it up into something it'snot is akin to putting rocket rocker covers on an SBC or worse yet, flathead looking covers on an SBC. Why bother? If you're ashamed of it, don't do it.
    Did I mention my truck HAULS ASS?
     
  16. DE SOTO
    Joined: Jan 20, 2006
    Posts: 3,857

    DE SOTO
    Member

    I just hope its not gonna end up in the '41 Pick Up Custom :eek:

    Skratch already did enough to that Car that was never there before.

    Anyrate, I would Leave the Late Hemi to the Street Rod Gang, Buy it Cheap & Sell it to someonr like Justin at Scott's ... Maybe he can use it for his next AMBR build.
     
  17. As for the look. What is wrong with this.

    Easiest way to get a dist is use a BB chev style MSD belt drive unit. (or make one.) There is already a hole in the timing cover where a dist could be put but it would require some careful work to do. The belt drive is quick and easy and good. Speedways sells complete 5.7s for under $3000 and the matching computer for $299.
    Those were bone stock valve covers just sent to he local metal polisher. Verns idea. I would have taken the posts off and smoothed them out . I even thought about blocking one of the plug holes since dyno reports tend to indicate the second plug does not add power. (same with and without so i have been told) Then in a real freaky moment I thought what about blocking the opposite holes to get that old Ardun style pattern for plugs, if it doesnt matter which plug you dont use, that would be cool.
    (like oo oo rather than o o o o) Of course nothing wrong with a 16 plug hemi either. Timing cover is easily cleaned up and trimmed to look decent.
    A small piece needs to be welded in on the one side to close off the water passage but it is minor. By using an external water pump the distributor could be mounted and drven from the camshaft end too just for another thought although there is nothing wrong with a ingition computer system either. A distributor is not a necessity for rodding or racing. Ignition computers and waste spark systems have been around since Bel Engineering and Accel worked together.
    Another possibility is to fabricate a bracket with four reluctor pickups for the balancer. Using a single pole on the balncer it would trigger each set of 4 double coils ad there you have a cheap practical home brew waste spark set up for some work and junk yard parts. Each coil set could use a old mopar electronic box. Four in total , one box for each pickup/ coil set. No it isnt high tech but it would work and be inexpensive. Make the 4 pickup mounting plate movable and you can have retard for starting with a cable or even solenoid conected by linkage and wired to start on the ignition switch. The possibilities are endless.
    Don
    That is BTW a real 5.7 not an early hemi although once the covers are polished it looks very much like one. No mods were made to the covers , they were just polished. They looked pretty darn traditional to me. More so in person too.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  18. I would do it!!!
     
  19. Left Turn
    Joined: Nov 13, 2009
    Posts: 634

    Left Turn
    Member Emeritus
    from Omaha, NE

    If I had one I'd use it... electronics to me aren't a big thing, but I work with new cars everyday with 'em... I wouldn't dress it up as an older engine though.. and I wouldn't put it in a "traditional" hot rod either... Maybe a truck, maybe a more modern look at an open wheeled roadster, or an old dodge wagon.. or a jeep... A Jeep would be cool,like the Willys wagon that was in Hot Rod..
     
  20. I agree with Don, heads that flow like Niagara Falls, super potential, looks cool with the valve covers polished, it IS a Hemi, so let's shut up and run it. Best of all, it is Mopar.
     
  21. llonning
    Joined: Nov 17, 2007
    Posts: 680

    llonning
    Member

    A customer of mine was on the development team for the 5.7. I was told that they ran the engines for something like a million hours, with only a re-ring. They also overheated them, then quenched with cold water. No catastrophic results at all.

    With all of the other things he has told me, it just reinforces my faith in Mopar engines. I never heard of a Chevy or Ford engine going through the same thing.
    But then I have been wrong before, and will be again.

    We also have 2 5.7s, one in a Charger LE and a Ram2500. Love them, decent mileage, even in the truck. The Charger has the MDS, you don't even know when it drops the cylinders or when they kick back in.
     
  22. Not trying to sound like a jerk, but... I find it mildly humorous that people who call themselves "hot rodders" worry SO much about what everyone else thinks before they build their cars or buy a part for one. Isn't that the REAL (and yeah, TRADITIONAL) nature of hot rodding to mix & match pieces from all sorts of cars & trucks to build YOUR creation the way that makes YOU happy? My dad said that they'd use Buick this and Chevy that and DeSoto other things to make their cars unique, but it was mainly because they had to scour around and put "CHEAP" at the top of the list of requirements.

    That being said, have fun! Put the new Hemi in your rod and drive the hell out of it! If anyone gives you hell about it, tell them that you'll put in whatever engine that they want, as long as they pay for it and help you fab the brackets and wiring harness to help you put it in.

    For the love of Pete, how many ways can someone build and decorate a Flathead or Small Block Chevy...?!?!? I think that I've seen just about EVERY way, in case you're taking notes.
     
  23. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,504

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

    The only Hemi worth really arguing about :D

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Little Wing. Been there done that! Even have the hat and the Coffee mugs . Still is an awesome engine but so is the new one.
    As to what to say to someone who is critical of your engine choice. I only ever used three words. "So beat me!"
    It usually finished the discussion. Same BTW for my V10 ram when i first got it i got stopped all the time by gazoonie birds who thought their chevy or ford could beat it. After about a week i started carrying a logging chain in the bed. Whenever one of these idiots would start pontifcating on how their Chevy or Ford was stronger I would just walk to the back of the truck and reach in and hold up the chain and hook. "Well back her up" I would say "and we shall see." Not once, not ever, in the 15 years since I bought the truck did i ever have a taker. Never even had any back talk.
    Don
     
  25. superjunkman
    Joined: Jul 21, 2006
    Posts: 965

    superjunkman
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    I've got a good friend in Pasadena (Texas) that put an early (04-05?) 5.7 Hemi in a 70 Coronet. It looked great and ran like a scalded dog. I'll try and dig up some pics. He said his only regret was not using a manual tranny. There was some initial disagreement between the computer and my buddy about when to shift, tire size, etc. It was all happily ironed out.
     
  26. Theo:HotRodGod
    Joined: Nov 23, 2009
    Posts: 565

    Theo:HotRodGod
    Member

    I don't have any pic's but yes I have seen both the 6.1l and the 5.7l stuffed in rods and customs. The two spark plugs are waste spark emmissions control implement not of any power gain. Also the 5.7l was the mds system "multiple cylinder displacment" The lifters in this engine were designed to collapse when oil pressure was killed to four of them via four solenoids mounted under the intake manifold. The 5.7l runs on four cylinders at idle and throttle tip-in and eight cylinders loaded. keep this in mind if you do install a 5.7l in another vehicle. Remove and plug off the ports to the mds solenoids, and change out the lifters. Huge after market support for both engines. The 6.1l srt engine does not have mds, But watch the info some will have a varriable timming phaser on the front of the camshaft-too much wiring for a clean engine compartment.
     
  27. impalabuilder
    Joined: Oct 6, 2007
    Posts: 106

    impalabuilder
    Member
    from NJ

    if you can tune a carb engine, turn on a laptop, and read this sentence, you can set up killer electronics on this motor for pennies (relatively speaking)

    http://www.megasquirt.info/MSINTRO.htm
     
  28. VonXulu
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 371

    VonXulu
    Member
    from Ventura Ca

    Yeah, no. The 41 is safe as is. It is going to get a McColloch 39M pancake blower though! As soon as I can find some parts.
     
  29. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,702

    Abomination
    Member

    AGREED.

    You can order the parts and put it together yourself, too as an option!

    ~Jason

     

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