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Newbie questions about getting a y block reliable/running sweet.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by arete, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. arete
    Joined: Jun 2, 2009
    Posts: 17

    arete
    Member

    So, these are potentially dumb questions and I apologize in advance.

    Setup: 63 Comet, 292 Y block (stock for all I know) , Holley Street Avenger 570, 3 speed toploader. There's an electric fuel pump just behind the rear axle and I just replaced the two inline fuel filters. The inline fuel gauge between the primary and secondary ports on the carb is kind of twitchy but is around 9 psi at idle.

    Issues:
    1) When cold it starts, runs for a few seconds then dies. Takes several attempts to get it running but always seems to, eventually. No issues starting once warm.
    2) Accelerator is way close to the floor - almost just an on/off button and only opens about 1/2 of WOT
    3) It you ease it up, the engine builds revs fine, if you mash the gas, it stalls.
    4) There are no (zero, zip, nada) vacuum lines hooked up to the carb.

    Plan:
    1) Pull the plugs and look at them.
    2) set valve lash to factory specs.
    3) Check for vacuum leaks - I was going to use the soapy water method to try and avoid setting things on fire.
    4) Set timing to around 10 degrees, and actually connect the vacuum advance.
    5) Baseline the carb (set floats, idle, etc)
    6) Connect PCV on the carb to the port on the back of the intake.
    7) Profit?

    Questions:
    1) The throttle linkage appears to be a single rod going to from under the pedal to the carb linkage - I don't really see any obvious way to adjust it apart from simply bending it - is there a better way to do it?
    2) Car was born a 6 cyl Merc o Matic. When I was looking for place to route gauges through the firewall I discovered that a PO had hacked huge holes for the clutch linkage in the firewall and inner fender. It looks like he used a school of angry piranhas or something. The plus is gauge routing was like running strings down a hallway, but there's two approx 3" cracks leading out from the corners of two of the holes (firewall, inner fender). Am I going to die If I don't fix it immediately? Do you guys usually find such awesome body modification?
    3) Am I missing something obvious in tuning to get rid of my problems?
    4) When is the weather going to stop being so damn cold here?
     
  2. fuel pressure is too high...should be around 5 psi
    mechanical distributor advance working?
    Bend it......
     
  3. marshallal
    Joined: Oct 6, 2009
    Posts: 37

    marshallal
    Member
    from amherst ny

    Rick has it right. I'll add may 17, 2014... Ten degrees might be too much. Check the specs for your mill. Is the acelarator pump ok ??....i make throtle rods from welding rod to the length i need. Patching with a piece of steel cut to size, put a slot in from one edge. Put a gromet over the wires slide it into the slot, mount to the wall with pop rivs, and sealer...mlmlml
     
  4. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,994

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    A Y block won't fit in a Comet. That is why they never had a V8 until they introduced the 221.

    Actually it was the 221 that grew into a 260 then a 289 then a 302. So, you don't have a Y block unless somebody did a real radical engine swap. It has been done but requires major mods to the fender wells around the spring towers.

    Could you check again and see exactly what you have? A serial # would tell the tale. Or a photo.
     
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  5. arete
    Joined: Jun 2, 2009
    Posts: 17

    arete
    Member

    It's a Y block. I'm a bit frightened of the shock tower hackage - the plan is to get an export brace/monte carlo bar in there asap, and notch the towers properly as soon as I get the opportunity.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  6. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,243

    King ford
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from 08302

    I had a 66 mustang once that some tool cut the shock and coil towers for header clearance, they were so weak the top a arm wiggled around when driving and the car would dart around on the road! I replaced the towers drove the car a few years and lost interest, it was a factory gt fastback! Wish I still had it just so I could sell it again and buy more cool traditional hot rod shit or another old truck( can't ever have too many)!
     
  7. Beebeebobby
    Joined: Sep 5, 2010
    Posts: 224

    Beebeebobby
    Member
    from Webb City

    yup, somehow that looks vaguely familiar....LOL!
     
  8. mixedupamx
    Joined: Dec 2, 2006
    Posts: 513

    mixedupamx
    Member

    I would look over the rest of the po's (more like POS!!!) work if they hacked the towers like that. I wouldn't trust my safety to their work! those cracks you describe sound bad would check them out for sure.
     
  9. Beebeebobby
    Joined: Sep 5, 2010
    Posts: 224

    Beebeebobby
    Member
    from Webb City

    To be honest I have seen that kinda thing done to one of these shock towers before. It wasn't such an uncommon practice. As far as linkages and such. It would prove interesting to look at and see how things are linked. Post a few more pics if ya can of the cracks and linkages. Look for vacuum leaks and check plug wires and hook up your advance and she might just run a bit easier for ya. I can see that the manifold is not hitting the shock tower but still would be interesting to get a better pic of that on either side.-Bobby
     
  10. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,994

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I'll be damned. Why would anyone do this when a 302 fits right in?

    You might get away with it if the towers were boxed and reinforced. And, heavier springs and suspension installed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  11. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,994

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Starting prob sounds like choke not hooked up. But that is the least of your worries. It sounds like the car is an unsafe, cobbled up mess. It might be possible to make a safe, decent running car out of it but would it be worth the work and expense?

    I've fixed up some prize heaps but I would pass on that one.

    Suggest you go over the car carefully and make a list of everything that needs to be fixed. Get prices on all the parts, and estimate the time involved. Double the cost of parts, double the man hours and double them again.

    If you can look at this estimate and say "Yeah, it would totally be worth it to cruise in this fine machine" go ahead, fix her up.
     
  12. Beebeebobby
    Joined: Sep 5, 2010
    Posts: 224

    Beebeebobby
    Member
    from Webb City

    Heck my cousin had a 351 stuffed in his falcon but he was running it gasser style with a tube straight axle. Lot's a stuff can make it worthwhile or not worthwhile considering what kinda pocketbook ya have. Have fun whatever you decide to do. Be safe-Bobby.
     
  13. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,994

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Soapy water won't help you find vacuum leaks. Pressure leaks but not vacuum leaks. This and other questions suggest to me that you are a newbie when it comes to working on old cars.

    This particular car may be too tough a fight for you at this time. You might do better to sell it and buy something that is in better shape, running and driving, and does not need major work and engineering to make it safe.
     
  14. arete
    Joined: Jun 2, 2009
    Posts: 17

    arete
    Member

    Yep, newbie when it comes to old cars. I've had a few old bikes, but this is the first old car.

    I always had an ok time finding vacuum leaks on the bikes with a shock pump and squirt bottle of soapy water and watching for bubbles. Took longer and required more attention than carb cleaner, but no fire.

    Here's some photos of the holes I was talking about, where cracks have formed is circled in red:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The linkage was tough to take a comprehensive photo of but here's a go at it. You can see where a piece of the brace was hacked off too.

    [​IMG]


    The rest of the car is relatively clean, new interior, not much bondo anywhere, it's just the hacking for the engine install.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  15. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Why would anybody stick a Y block in there? The front end weight would make the suspension sketchy at best without being cut up.

    My advise; buy a boat, use the y block as an anchor for said boat, build a nice 302 for the Comet.
     
  16. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,166

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I remember seeing pictures of a Y block shoved in a 60 or 61 falcon back when it was new.
     
  17. I agree with the 302 swap, but will hold back on the boat anchor part. It just doesn't belong in that car. Good looking car by the way.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  18. big bad john
    Joined: Aug 11, 2010
    Posts: 4,727

    big bad john
    Member

    I think a 302 motor would be a better match to the car with less problems..the y block just doesn't look right
     
  19. arete
    Joined: Jun 2, 2009
    Posts: 17

    arete
    Member

    I agree with you all,

    My plan for the car is
    1. 5 lug disc conversion up front with 65 Falcon steering.
    2. I bought an 8.8 rear from an Explorer with 3.73's and trac loc, along with a second short side axle to use once the long side is narrowed 3"
    3. Intending on a T5 trans.
    4. SBF based engine. In my brain it's a 347 stroker, but we'll see what the wallet allows for.

    It's my first old car and hindsight being 20/20, I should have got one with a small block already and less poorly done modification, but I probably would have found something else wrong in another car (at least that's what I'm telling myself).

    Finding the hackage for the clutch linkage was a bit of a downer. I spoke to a mustang shop here and they didn't seem terribly surprised - Their advice was to run export/monte carlo bars for now to stop the front end twisting any further, and repair the shock towers once I know exactly what engine is going in.
     
  20. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,166

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    If you were closer I would trade you a small block for that Y block.
     
  21. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,264

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    Till I saw the pic I doubted it had a yblock but there it is. You should be able to go to a hardware store & pick up a couple small heim joints & a threaded rod to make new linkage for the carb. Sounds like a choke problem on the cold start as mentioned. 10 degrees is not too much timing for a yblock. If you have a timing light see if it's advancing then figure out why if it's not.
    All that said, it seems like a waste of a good yblock in that car. I'm a yblock fan but in this situation I vote for a sbf in there. If you go that route, don't trash the yblock. If you can't sell the whole engine it may have some valuable parts on it yblock guys are looking for. 4v intakes, 57 exhaust manifolds are just a couple of things that bring good $$.
     
  22. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,994

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I remember it too. It was in Hot Rod or Car Craft, one of the popular magazines. The install was done by a leading race car constructor like Holman and Moody and it was a bitch. They had to cut and box the shock towers, modify the suspension and steering, they had to make a special wrench for removing the spark plugs, there was no way to get at them except by removing the front wheels and going in through holes in the inner fender.

    The car was nose heavy and hard to drive.

    It must have cost somebody thousands of dollars. A few months later they came out with the new V8 making the whole thing a waste of time.
     
    fiftiescat likes this.
  23. GEEZE,,,that's a mess.,,,the original Falcon/Comet V8's had heavy duty cowl to tower braces and a tubular tie bar under the motor. You need to pull that motor to fix that stuff.
     
  24. A local man here in town has a Mustang with a similar front suspension. He removed all of the shock tower setup and put a Mustang II front end on it which gave him a lot more room in the engine bay.
     
    sunbeam likes this.
  25. Stevie Nash
    Joined: Oct 24, 2007
    Posts: 2,999

    Stevie Nash
    Member

    Get her down closer to the ground...
     
  26. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,738

    missysdad1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Maybe I'm just an old weird guy, but I kinda like stuff that's off the beaten track - NOT like everybody else's. This car certainly qualifies and I'm not seeing anything that a little fixing and a little common sense won't cure. And...there's a wealth of suspension/ engine swap information the op can draw on: just look under "Mustang" instead of "Comet". Same flippin' car.

    Tend to the basics first. Remove the engine is your first step. This cannot be avoided to affect the changes that you must make. Then close up the holes cut in the spring towers and fabricate and weld in structures that will reinforce the areas where the firewall braces have been cut out. This is not rocket science and can be accomplished by any competent rod shop if you can't do it yourself.

    The Y-block weighs about 165 lbs. more than a 260/289 and about 240 lbs. more than the original 6 cylinder (http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/engineweights.html). While this is significant it's not like stuffing a Chrysler Hemi (745 lbs. - which HAS BEEN DONE, by the way!) in there.

    It would appear that the springs have already been changed to compensate (maybe even over-compensate?) for the extra weight, so it's just a matter of stiffening up the compromised areas of the front body structure and then approaching the build as if it were a '64 1/2 - '66 Mustang.

    Heavier gas-filled shocks, a good aftermarket anti-roll bar (sway bar), a bar between the shock towers and improved brakes would go a long ways towards making this a better handling and safer car - even with the marginally heavier front end load.

    Am I a closet Y-block freako? Hell, no, but like I said I really like weird stuff - and this car qualifies in spades. I'm just trying to keep the op from changing a really interesting car into just another "same-old same-old" conventionally boring kemp that everybody else seems to be recommending.

    Is my way the easier way? Again, hell no, but it's the coolest.

    :cool:
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
    fiftiescat likes this.
  27. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,994

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    If I ever took the Y block out I sure wouldn't put it back in. I would fix the hack job the last owner did and put in more modern V8.

    But, I would probably just sell the car and buy something that did not need all that work.
     
  28. fiftiescat
    Joined: Jan 22, 2013
    Posts: 108

    fiftiescat
    Member
    from NY

    So... how are you making out with the comet?
     
  29. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,332

    sunbeam
    Member

    I like the mustang II idea It would let you clean up the shock towers and get you more room.
     

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