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Technical New wagon...loses power on ANY incline?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SpazTaztic, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    Unfortunately not- yet. I have been working 6 days a week and since it isn't at my house, it makes it more difficult. I am waiting on another paycheck before I start ordering parts to convert to 12v- including a new starter. Will be easier to find stuff locally for 12v (bulbs and such) vs the 6v.

    If the solenoid on the starter went up in smoke... literally... do you guys think i should try to bypass it to start her up and see if the vacuum issues are fixed? It will be a bit before I get all the parts and time to do the 12v conversion.

    (Plus if I bypass and starter is good- then I can pull a solenoid off a parts car I have to hold me over. I just don't want to short anything further.)
     
  2. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 670

    RMONTY

    Well #1, I don't believe you need worry about getting a "12 volt" starter. I have had several vehicles that were originally 6 volt that were either already converted or I converted myself. A 6 volt starter turns very well with 12 volts applied. If I were you, I would find a local automotive electrical shop that rebuilds starters, yank that sucker off the car, run it down there and ask them to check it out. It may only need a new solenoid. Be sure to tell them you will be converting to 12 volts.....they will know how to fix you up! It should be at a minimal cost as well, and it is local.....
     
    loudbang and bobg1951chevy like this.
  3. What did you do to fix the vacuum issues ?
     
    harpo1313 likes this.
  4. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    As far as I know it was just the fuel pump, but havent been able to start it since to test it because of the starter/solenoid issue.
     
  5. Without going through the entire thread, how did you determine a "vacuum leak" was present ?
    A fuel pump will not repair a vacuum leak.
    If you, in fact, had a vacuum leak before the pump replacement, it will still be there.
    A "dual function" fuel pump will feed fuel, plus add necessary vacuum, for better vacuum wiper operation.
    A 6 volt starter will work with a 12 volt system, some opt to use a 12 volt starter solenoid, with the 6 volt starter.
     
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  6. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    The vacuum leak was to the wipers- new dual function pump to fix to get inspected. The dia. was ruptured my guess... there was fuel in the vacuum ports for the wipers. Also- the loss of power on incline could possibly be attributed to the fuel pump sucking air and not providing constant proficient amounts of fuel.

    So that is what I want to test before I start throwing extra money at it- fuel pump (do I still lose power on incline) and vacuum for wipers. Now I need to see if it is starter or just solenoid as well.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  7. You'll let us know how the fuel pump replacement has worked out for you.
     
  8. displaced_kiwi
    Joined: Nov 20, 2005
    Posts: 243

    displaced_kiwi
    Member

    If you buy a new starter, keep in mind that there are different ring gears for 6v and 12v Chevy starters and they need to be correctly matched. Its not a problem running a 6v starter when you do the 12v conversion. I did a quick search and this thread may help (or confuse!), but it might save you future head aches.
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/53-chevy-car-235-starter.117443/
     
    loudbang likes this.
  9. Had a old dodge truck do that. Turned out the flex line between fuel pump and frame would collapse going up hill. Changed it,problem solved


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  10. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    I am going to bypass the solenoid to see if the starter is still good. Then I will know if just a solenoid or the whole starter. Will be next week hopefully when I can get by to test it. It is rough not having it at my place, but I would rather it be in the climate controlled garage where it is vs in the open carport I have at the house for now!

    Will keep you guys posted!!
     
    loudbang likes this.
  11. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 1,614

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Any agriculture tractor dealership should also have just about any battery you might need, 6 or 12 volt. From small batteries for lawn tractors to 8D size for heavy equipment. Usually good quality too, as they're going into a naturally rough duty service.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  12. This almost answers my question with out starting a new thread. Will it wreak a 6 volt starter if I bump start with a 12 volt to get compression readings on a 235? I know nothing about this engine other then it looks to be good.
     
  13. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 670

    RMONTY

    Absolutely not.....bump it all day long with 12 volts....no harm done!
     
  14. Thank you
     
  15. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    Starter needs rebuild- had it towed to local shop to try to have running for Valentines Day. My girl asked me last week when she would get to ride in it. So will leave that as a surprise- show up to pick her up in it. Will let you guys know how things run in a week.
     
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  16. harpo1313
    Joined: Jan 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,307

    harpo1313
    Member
    from wareham,ma

    If the diaphragm is toast you have a vac leak ,cap the line off and try it .
     
  17. IF which diaphragm is toast ?
     
  18. harpo1313
    Joined: Jan 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,307

    harpo1313
    Member
    from wareham,ma

  19. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    wipers do not work through old vac assit on old fuel pump, but DID work when bypassed directly to manifold. So new fuel pump was installed- just untested for now.


    * I dropped off my new fuel sending unit yesterday to get the shop to install it while on their lift too! I don't have access to a lift anymore, so floorjack and jackstands only in the limited time I have to work on it these days. I should have it back next week.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
  20. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    Talked to the shop yesterday. Starter went to an old guy in town on monday- said it was in rough shape and needed to be rebuilt. Was supposed to have it done by last night, back to the shop by monday, and the shop said they will have it back to me late Monday- but guaranteed to have it back to me before dinner on tuesday as promised!
     
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  21. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    Should be getting the wagon back today. Shop said they were putting starter back on now and then will do a test drive to make sure the fuel pump fixed my original issue.

    Do you guys know if the lock on the rear hatch is supposed to be the same key as the doors, or is it keyed to a second key? I know the one key I got with the wagon doesnt fit- but if it should be the same then I can get it re-keyed.
     
  22. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    So starter is back in- fuel sending unit was not the right one and nobody has one like what is in it. SO...will have to order a new tank with the pickup line NOT going through the sending unit. Points were off, got those set and still lack of power. Said it appears the dist is not moving- so advance has gone out too. So no go on having her back in time for the Valentines dinner. But I want it done right and not rushed. They are trying to get the parts and get her done by 5 tonight to still give me a chance to make it, but does not look like it will happen.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  23. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 670

    RMONTY

    First thing that comes to my mind....lack of vacuum....loss of vacuum advance. Do you feel like the shop where you took it is well versed in 65 year old technology? Are you confident in them?
     
  24. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    They have a few classics in their shop now. The older gentleman working on it has a 53 chevy pickup. So hopefully. This is the first time i have used them.
     
  25. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    Update on wagon:

    *Fuel tank is right size and shape, but pickup is indeed coming out of sending unit with the sock at the end. I can't find this sending unit anywhere so far. Anyone have any leads? Otherwise I can use the sending unit i got from chevs of the 40s if I buy their tank that the pickup comes directly from the tank- no sock.

    * points were way off- the guy there set them where they should be. Had to reset the plug gaps and timing as well as all were way off. Test drove and still lack of power. Took carb apart and found some things sticking- so claned it out and got everything working fine. Test drove again and still lack of power- gets to roughly 50mph and just kind of hesitates and wont go higher. He said on the last test drive her heard a pop while he was going 50 and the wagon took off up to 65 with no more hesitation and had great pickup just as he turned back into the shop to check what the pop was. It was the belt popping off... The pulleys for the water pump and generator almost line up and are for the smaller belt size- the main pully on the crank stick out ALOT farther and is for a wider belt. The water pump and generator spin freely by hand(I went by after work to put my hands on it and check that tank while on their lift). Maybe one of those are binding under load? Belt popping definitely by pulley misalignment, but the power coming back after the belt was off- any thoughts on that?

    *vacuum is excellent with no leaks

    *Starter is now working- but not working right. So sent back to the one guy in town to rebuild it...again. If it comes back wrong again- I will buy another for it and take it somewhere else to have rebuilt. Problem is there is only one guy in town that will rebuild the older ones.

    Still have an issue with the seal on the rear of the trans coming loose too. That's where the fluid on the garage floor came from. Seal comes loose and then just pours transmission fluid out.

    After getting to talk to the tech longer this evening- I feel confident in his ability to work on it. Very knowledgeable and knows his way around those engines! Several classics there other than mine too.
     
  26. 55Belairretrorod
    Joined: May 2, 2013
    Posts: 56

    55Belairretrorod
    Member
    from Australia

    1953/54 should have narrow belt. Sounds like it has the earlier bottom pulley.
    Re loss of power, I've seen cars lose power under acceleration due to a loose baffle in the muffler sliding back and blocking exhaust flow. Another option perhaps?
    Cheers,
    Arnold.
     
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  27. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    Exhaust has already been checked and ruled out. It is either the water pump or generator pulling the system down. Within the 7 minutes of driving without the belt, the radiator puked a little coolant from the overflow- so leads me to believe it may be the waterpump. The gauge never showed it to be running hot wither. Sound like something that could happen? It spins freely by hand- but under load it may be seizing?
     
  28. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    Had someone find this for me:

    http://www.bobsclassicchevy.com/1953-1954-station-wagon-fuel-tank-send-unit-sedan-delivery.html

    The right sending unit like what is installed but not working. Got it ordered on my lunch break. They did narrow down the power drain to the water pump binding under load. So last I heard they were going to rebuild. Still no eta on getting it back yet. Every time they fix something, there always seems to be something else hiding... other than the drive home from Tyler(with major problems and mainly going 35-40mph) I haven't gotten to drive her since I got her. Its got me pretty bummed out right now.
     
  29. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 670

    RMONTY

    I have never heard of a water pump binding so bad that it bogged an engine down. I will admit that I haven't heard of everything, and stranger things have happened....but something just doesn't sound right with the whole diagnosis thing on this one. But I'm not the one under the hood so I can't be critical....rebuilding a 235 water pump.....hmmm....why not just order a new one?
     
  30. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 1,294

    Truck64
    Member
    from Here

    They are gonna be ornery for a while after being woken up.. Keep at it, keep tuning it, replace what needs it, get the grease gun out, check for excessive play on linkage, balance the wheels, check u-joints, run through the brakes.. There's a million things on these it's to be expected. You'll have a great ride and be able to hop in it and go anywhere.
     
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