new solenoid=constant starting. cure?

just installed a new solenoid and now the starter won't disengage on starting--the motor fires fine but the starter keeps cranking until i cut the ignition. i guess it's just a bad solenoid, stuck or something. that sound right? anybody have a remedy for this or am i going to have to wait three days until the parts store can ship another one? it's the four prong remote firewall-mounted type used in sixties up fords.

 

if it didn'tdo it before you installed it then the component is either installed incorrectly or faulty.

 

pretty much no way to install it incorrectly, they universalized the solenoid, to cut costs i guess, and i've done probably fiteen of these things before without a problem. i'm definitely thinking the switch is bad, just wanted to know if there's a fix or if the car is parked until i can get another.

 

you could manually jump the solenoid with a screwdriver if you really wanted to....

 

Make sure you don't have the wires for the S and I posts switched. The S post wire should be lt. blue with red stripe.

 

Cutoff switch on the energized wire out of the solenoid?

 

I recall that you recently posted another thread regarding the wiring in your car. Based on that I suggest an alternative possibility IF (1) the solenoid is not faulty and (2) you have the solenoid wired correctly.

The thirs possibility is that you have something wired incorrectly further back, for example if your ignition switch is sending power to the S terminal on the solenoid when the key is in the 'run' position.

Easy to trouble shoot your problem:

(1) Disconnect all the little wires from your solenoid, but leave the fat wires connected.

(2) Take a jumper wire and connect from the + on your battery (or the fat terminal on the back of your alternator) to the S terminal on the solenoid. Keep the ignition key off.

(3) The engine will crank. Does it stop cranking as soon as you disconnect the jumper wire? If yes, the solenoid is fine. If not, the solenoid is bad.

IF THE SOLENOID WAS GOOD:

(1) Find the little wire that connected to the S terminal on the solenoid.

(2) With the key off, see if there is 12v at that wire (connect a voltmeter or test light between that wire - which is still disconnected from the solenoid - to ground).

(3) There should not be 12 v present. If there is, you have something really hosed.

(4) Next, do the same thing, except this time with the ignition key in the run position. Do not start the engine. See (3) above.

(5) If there was no 12 volts present when the key was on 'run', then you had the solenoid wired properly.

Next, repeat this procedure, but with the key in the 'start' position. (Might need 2 people.) This wire should be hot. If not, you are, again, hosed.

Do the above detective work and let us know. Then, we can take it from there.

 

let me guess a solenoid from C&G i got 2 of those mine sticks when you push the button on the unit almost run my car into awall the first time and with the 2 one it almost blew my starter up staying stuck on.

 

just take the solinoid off and test continuity between big post, done........it's probably bad, i've knocked them around a little and got them working again

 

Can't blame the solenoid for the wall problem, that's why a neutral safety switch is important.

 

plym49, that wasn't me that posted about wiring troubles recently, haven't had any. maybe you're thinking of my signature? in any case, there's virtually no way it's a wiring problem. nothing was switched around when i changed out the old one, and the old one worked fine until it just went bad with age and stopped working entirely. i have to think the fault is with the new solenoid unless the old one was somehow different internally or magically corrected existing wiring problems of which i was unaware because everything functioned as it should have. thanks for the help though, everybody. i think it's just back to the parts store to roll the dice on another one.

 

well, looks like i was wrong. went back to the parts store, then to another parts store to switch out the suspect solenoid. installed the second new one, same problem. so i took the original switch, bashed it against the wall and reinstalled it. the car now cranks with the old solenoid but has the same problem, the starter stays on. so now i'm fairly convinced it's not a malfunctioning solenoid that's the problem,i guess it has to be wiring. i can't really understand what the problem could be, since i'm absolutely certain i changed nothing about the configuration of the wiring from the original solenoid, which worked fine until it quit totally. guess i'll dig in with the test light.

it does look like sombody definitely messed with the underhood wiring at some point--the large positive contact on the solenoid has the normal positive lead wire from the battery and then a wire leading presumably to the ignition switch, which is just a piece of monofilament copper looped around the terminal. i know it's making contact if only because the starter won't crank without it connected. it's the only one that's a mystery to me (probably just my own ignorance), the others are the starter wire from the outlet terminal on the solenoid, and small terminal s and i wires to the ignition switch. wish i had a diagram for this blasted thing. maybe the ignition switch is bad and not cutting off power to the solenoid?

 

Yep ! take a close look at the ign sw. They do fail.

 

roadrunner-did you bother to read the last thing i posted? i've bought one solenoid, and that's it. i'm trying to avoid "throwing parts at the problem." which is why i'm going at it with a test light. which is what i said in my last post. i did bother to read what you posted and i've done your jump test and the s wire to the ignition is definitely connected properly.

 

Take both small wires off the solenoid (starter relay in my book) and jump the S terminal to the large battery terminal. This will check the solenoid to see if the engine cranks. If the engine cranks the stops when the jumper wire is lifted then the solenoid and starter are OK. If it still continues to crank, then the solenoid is bad.

If the engine stops cranking with jumper removed try connecting only the S terminal wire to the S terminal and try the crank test again. If it cranks properly (in the start position) then all so far is well. If the starter cranks in RUN position, then this is the I wire and the other wire is the S terminal. If after getting the correct wires connected to the solenoid and the same thing happens then it is time to look into the ignition switch.

 

Hey buddy,
Snag a medium sized screw driver. Fire the bugger up, then take the screw driver and give the soloniod a whack with the handle. If it stops spinning then the soloniod is sticking.

Any Ford remote soloniod will work BTW. They were all pretty much universal.

 

thanks pork, i'll try that in the morning. i'm thinking it's not the solenoid that's the trouble though, since i've had two different brand new ones in there in the past day (thought the first must be faulty so i took it back and the second one did the same thing). thinking now it might be the ignition switch not cutting the power to the solenoid after the engine fires up and the cylinder slides back into the run position. that's how it's acting anyway. i gotta check the leads with a test light and see what the switch is doing tomorrow.

 

Installing a wiring harness isn't all that bad....tracing and repairing a hacked up old wiring harness really sucks, on the other hand. I think you're on the right track, between a test light and a screwdriver you'll figrue it out.

Could be a $10 chinese ignition switch from pep boys, too, causing the problem. Never know what was put in there before you got it.

Anychance it could be aproblem with the starter rather than the solenoid? If I have the money, I'll replace those as a pair, but then I really really hate getting stranded, so I'll spend a little more if I think it'll help.

Good luck whatever you do and keep us posted.

 

While it is possible that some slim shady technique like smacking the solenoid upside its head can free a stuck solenoid - indeed, this can work on a solenoid that is stuck either open or closed - the fact that the problem has persisted over a couple of solenoids is an indication that the problem is elsewhere.

You have one wire - somewhere - that is not hooked up correctly. No need to install a new harness to fix one wire.

I take you at your word as posted in your tag line: "I hate wiring". Follow the step-by-step instructions I posted in my prior post. The only way to fix something like this is to use good troubleshooting technique that absolutely rules out one thing at a time. Otherwise it just random "try this" "hell, try this" "ok, try this instead". If you hate wiring then that is a good way to hate it even more. Start at the begining, go step at a time, and in 15 minutes you will know where the problem is. PM me if you want to call me on my cell and I am happy to walk you through it.

 

I had this happen too, in my case it was a bad ignition switch. Old solenoid required LOTS of current to pull it in - however the NEW solenoid required very little - what this cause was that inside the ignition switch it had arced over the years to build a carbon path for the electricity to follow - however it had soem resistance enough so that it would NOT pull in the solenoid however once the juice was flowing it would continue to "make the contact" as the current rode across that carbon path inspite of the key being turned off.

So if this is a possibility for yours what you would need to do is measure the resistance between the contacts of your ignition switch - they should read obviously OPEN or CLOSED - not inbetween (ala carbon resistor) - you might be able to do this with a test light but I'm not sure it will be as fool proof as a regular VOM (meter)

 

thanks much for the help guys. i'm convinced it's not the solenoid at this point, for the reasons stated before. it has got to be either a wire or the ignition switch. i'm thinking it may well be the switch because when i connect the s wire (confirmed) to its pole, the starter continues to crank, when i pull the wire it quits and when i reconnect it (no i haven't done this very much, i realize it's a pretty dumb idea with current flowing, me not wanting to blow the solenoid) it starts to crank again, suggesting that the ignition is still putting power to the solenoid. so your problem sounds like it might be in the same ballpark, rambler. wish i had a voltmeter. luckily it's not that complicated a circuit. updates to follow.

 

Got a Harbor Freight nearby, voltmeters are $2.99.

 

harbor freight it is.

 

ok, looks like it was the ignition switch after all. ran all the current tests again and got the same result, voltage running to s wire with key in run position. so i pulled the ignition switch and found that the spring around the body of the switch was almost totally collapsed, the coil that contacts the bezel/cylinder spacer was bent out of shape so badly that it was almost tucked under the coil below. i have no idea how the spring could have worn this way, doesn't seem like you'd be able to work the key if it was installed as crooked as it must have been. and i can't explain why the ignition action didn't feel looser, i guess there was just enough tension left in the spring that i didn't notice. anyway it's off to napa for an echlin switch and i'll let you know how it goes after install. thanks for the help boys.

 

Good job! I see that now you love you some wiring.........(not)

 

wirin' is a peace o' cake!

 

alright, this is getting ridiculous. away from the car for a couple of days, finally got a spare second to work on it so i intalled the new switch. same problem, current running to the s wire with key in the run position, starter cranking until ignition is turned off completely. it's gotta be wiring now, right? or a faulty switch? i thought before that logically it would have had to be the ignition switch and, after i removed it, it was clear it needed to be replaced. what are the chances the new one is faulty? it's the best quality one i could find around here, made by echlin.

 

Use a test light/VOA meter and hook up ONLY the power supply wire to the switch. Then check each of the other terminals for power in each of the switch posistions. If the terminal to energise the sol. has power in any possition other than crank you have a bad switch, if not it has to be in the wiring. Maybe 2 wires shorted together in the harness or ?? Try running temperary jumper wires from the switch to the ign and solinoid . Does the ign. sw. have any wires that go to the alt. connected to it? Also when trying the jumper wires disconnect any resistor bypass wires at both ends. Idea here is to eliminate all current wires in the start/run circut . I feel there is a short in the harness causing a backfeed at this point.

 

440 Roadrunner: I see our thoughts are running in the same direction. You type faster than my 2 fingers.LOL

 

roadrunner-
i was talking about the ignition switch in my last post, not the solenoid, i've basically eliminated the solenoid as the problem. here's the condensed version: when i tested the solenoid and it became apparent that it was not the problem, i removed the old ignition switch, the one that came with the car, and saw that the tensioner spring was almost totally collapsed. logically, once the solenoid is eliminated as the problem, it would either be a faulty ignition switch or a short in the wiring causing power feed to the solenoid constantly in both the crank and run positions of the ignition switch. you're right about that and that's was my reasoning as well. since i saw the ignition switch obviously needed to be replaced when i pulled it out, i replaced it. so the ignition switch is new, i haven't bought any new solenoids past the first one, if that's what you're thinking.

what i'm trying to do now is to figure out whether the problem is that the new ignition switch is faulty or whether some wiring somewhere, as you said, it shorting. with the key in the run position (not crank, not off, not acc, but resting on run) the s wire to the solenoid is drawing current. i turn the key to run, i take the s wire off the solenoid, the starter quits. i put it back on, the starter cranks. i stick a test light into the connector with the key on run and it shows current flowing into the s wire. HOWEVER the test light glows weakly, not full-bright like it would if drawing a full twelve volts. so i'm thinking it is in fact a short, not the new ignition switch. does that sound reasonable?

going to do the tests on the ignition switch now, thanks for posting that.