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New Skool 331 Caddy Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by c322348, May 20, 2013.

  1. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    Getting near the end of the process finally! Still working on the intake manifold fabrication for the 4 Weber 45DCOE carbs.

    You'll note I'm not taking the route most travelled on any of this stuff. It would have been so much easier to do a stock overhaul!
     
  2. sproadster30
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 120

    sproadster30
    Member
    from Natick, Ma

    Great to finally see more progress! Nice work!
     
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  3. clunker
    Joined: Feb 23, 2011
    Posts: 1,613

    clunker
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Boston MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    Right on. Thanks for posting and keeping us up to date.
     
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  4. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    I've been more anxious than you, trust me!


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  5. Hendee
    Joined: Sep 12, 2009
    Posts: 155

    Hendee
    Member

    Following along for some time. In the end if possible, it would be great to know all the shops used for the work and a one-post list of the manufacturers part numbers you used and what mods were done for their use. I realize that would need to wait until you are done, but would be invaluable info to others trying to follow a similar path as you have. Might make the difference for many guys to make an attempt. Really great to watch this come together and waiting anxiously to see how it all works.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
    Roothawg, loudbang and ls1yj like this.
  6. some great ingenuity in this thread.

    What was the offset on the crank grind?
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
    ls1yj likes this.
  7. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    All will be revealed in time! I made it harder on myself with the 331 block. It took some doing to get the 390 crank in there. Much easier to start with a 390.
     
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  8. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    I don't have the numbers in front of me but it you can subtract the BBC journal diameter from the Caddy journal diameter and divide by two. It wasn't much but I didn't want to weld on the journal to offset more. The rod clearance looks adequate to do that if you wanted.
     
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  9. Hendee
    Joined: Sep 12, 2009
    Posts: 155

    Hendee
    Member

    Much appreciated that you would do that. I realize asking you to put together a summary is asking a lot after you've already given us a great thread. It will be nice to have the total picture to follow for a future build of my own.
     
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  10. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    I'm a data geek, no worries!
     
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  11. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    Good news/bad news...

    Good news: Upgraded valve springs are on their way! The heads should be buttoned up shortly.

    Bad news: The rod bolts (remember, aftermarket 7.1" BBC rods) are interfering with some of the Steve Long Racing Cam lobes. Bottom end coming apart to grind a little on the bolt heads. We had it mocked up with an old timing set and the stock cam and there was plenty of clearance! Good thing the engine builder is meticulous and checking everything three times!

    In other good news, the bottom portion of the log manifold I'm fabricating for the Weber setup got welded. It is mostly done from the intake flange to the log. Now I have to figure out how to mount the Webers which will be on the outside of the valve covers (over the exhaust).

    Never a dull moment with this complicated build!


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  12. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,914

    Roothawg
    Member

    I can't remember if you said, but what did you do with the mains? Studs? Align bore after?
     
  13. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    Align bored, stock bolts. Engine builder thinks that is more than enough. Dyno should verify!


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  14. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    Another tidbit of info. I talked to Steve Long about a hydraulic roller cam for this build. He said you need a billet cam for that to get hard enough lobes. The cast iron blanks the grinders use won't work with a roller cam. With a max of 6500 RPM it probably won't matter much anyhow, I'll just have to run Rotella diesel oil or Valvoline racing oil for the high zinc content. You shouldn't run modern oils with a flat tappet cam/lifters because the zinc is omitted for pollution prevention.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  15. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,914

    Roothawg
    Member

    Would he spool up and build blanks for a Hyd roller cam? Just wondering how many cams he would have to have commitments on?
     
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  16. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    You'd have to ask him but I got the impression a billet cam would be north of $1,000 plus the cost of the roller lifters, and then you have to guess which lifters to use and perhaps modify them and maybe the block. I felt I was already in enough uncharted territory on this build!


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  17. ls1yj
    Joined: Sep 14, 2011
    Posts: 472

    ls1yj
    Member
    from Kentucky

    Check with Joe Panek at Rotofaze. He may have billet blanks or a source for them.


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  18. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    I see the light at the end of the tunnel!

    The tin has been chromed, should be another couple of weeks until I can pick this bad boy up.

    Need to finish up the intake which is about 1/2 done.

    Looking for a place that can dyno this. Either that or I'll have to wait a little longer and use a chassis dyno.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  19. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    Valve guides have been machined for Viton seals and valve spring retainers are SBC.
     
  20. cretin
    Joined: Oct 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,866

    cretin
    Member

    Awesome. Very interested in seeing this engine finished. I also have dreams of a 390 in 331 clothing.
    Thanks for the informative thread.
     
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  21. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,914

    Roothawg
    Member

    Awesome. Thanks for the updates.
     
    c322348 likes this.
  22. Looks great! What timing chain set are you using?
     
  23. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    Stock chain. No double roller available. I believe the setup came from Egge.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  24. Interesting I'm subscribing , I've have a 400" Crankshaft Co. stroker kit in my 331 Caddy but I built it back in the 60's . Still running strong . I think your 49 Ford rear will grenade with the torque of Caddy ! I glad to see that your using a Caddy always liked them !
     
  25. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    It's done! Now I have to pay for it, pick it up and then figure out what to do with it.

    Once I have the invoice in front of me I'll post a parts list.

    Still fabricating my log style intake manifold. Have to go through my La Salle too.

    Aluminum valve covers are temporary. I'm saving the chromed ones until everything goes together for good.
     
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  26. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,914

    Roothawg
    Member

    Very cool. Whose valve covers are those?
     
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  27. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    Not sure! Got them with a 390 I bought years ago.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  28. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,914

    Roothawg
    Member

    If you ever want to part with them, let me know.
    So, are you chroming the original parts?
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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  29. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    Yes, the original covers have been chromed by Buena Park (California) Bumper and Chrome. They did a great job on my parts! Show quality.

    Buena Park Bumper & Chrome
    Telephone: 714-670-7803
    Address: 7425 Orangethorpe Ave., Unit C, Buena Park, CA 90621
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
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  30. c322348
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 312

    c322348
    Member

    Picked up the engine yesterday from:

    L&R Engines (https://www.facebook.com/LREngines/)
    13731 Bora Dr, Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
    (562) 802-0443

    Derek was great to work with and put up with all my oddball requests!

    Parts list:

    Part #; Description
    CHP-1D; Bore, Hone & Deck Block
    2-454-7100; Scat 7.1" Connecting Rods
    90458; Ross Pistons
    Labor; Grind 390 Crankshaft- Custom
    3767; Rear Seal
    710P; Main Bearings
    Labor; Bush Rods to SBC .927 Pin Size
    Labor; Narrow Rod Width
    Labor; Drill Crank for Pilot Bushing
    Labor; Balance Crankshaft
    CLE-CB-743H; Narrow Rod Bearings
    Misc; Heavy Metal Slugs for Crank
    DYN-S-256; Timing Sprocket
    DYN-S-255; Timing Sprocket
    DYN-C-499; Timing Chain
    SPW-E-251K; Piston Rings
    Labor; Valve Job
    Labor; Surface Heads
    Labor; Head Porting
    Labor; Flow Heads
    Labor; Assemble Shortblock
    ELG-I-1294; Stainless Intake Valves
    ELG-E-1277; Stainless Exhaust Valves
    578G; Head Gaskets
    VL5; Lifters
    ELG-PR-21; Push Rods
    Labor; Install Heads
    Misc; Rebuild Oil Pump (Egge Machine)
    22018; Oil Pan Gasket
    18004E; Valley Pan Gasket
    GS8083Z; Valve Cover Gasket
    Steve Long Racing Cam (I'll add the grind number later)
    Valve Springs (I'll add the specs later)

    Egge and Elgin provided a lot of the old Caddy specific parts.

    A lot of this is extra work I created by putting the 390 crank in the 331 block, drilling the 390 crank for a manual trans pilot bearing, putting in longer (BBC) rods with forged (SBC) pistons, porting and flowing the heads, etc.

    This took a long time and I'm satisfied with the result, but I'm not yet sure when it will run. I have a few other things to finish first. Once the car can move under its own power I do have a chassis dyno run in my plan. I want to see what it will do with all these mods as much as everyone else!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
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