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Projects New Project: 1953 Oldsmobile

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by EnragedHawk, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. pecker head
    Joined: Nov 8, 2006
    Posts: 3,937

    pecker head
    Member

    Thanks for bringing it out.
     
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  2. NashRodMan
    Joined: Jul 8, 2004
    Posts: 1,736

    NashRodMan
    Member

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  3. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 1,274

    oliver westlund
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    maaan i want your original 53 steering wheel!
     
  4. MAD MIKE
    Joined: Aug 1, 2009
    Posts: 690

    MAD MIKE
    Member
    from 94577

    *screams incoherently*
    Now that I've gotten that out of my system.
    We'll come back to the A/C in a moment.
    Raise that ON temp to 200°F.

    190°F setpoint the fan is going to be constantly running once the engine is warmed up. Not good for fan life nor is it really going to do any cooling because....
    We'll have to have a talk about that battery terminal*eye twitches*, but first...

    That duct, it does nothing useful.
    It ducts the air around the fan/fan blades, yes. But after the air flow gets past the fan that hot air can now do a 180° turn and superheat the radiator.

    When the air pressure inside the engine bay is higher/hotter than outside, the hot air will leak out wherever it can, including back out through the front of the radiator(reverse flow), which then it will be pulled back in via the fans and reheat the radiator.
    Like two Tasmanian devils on either side of that fan duct, just swirling around.
    A vicious cycle.

    Air will bounce around and go in whichever direction without proper ducting. Need to control that turbulence. Herding cats can be easier.

    Still gotta build that wall,
    Make cooling great again.™

    Adding a simple shroud to cover the radiator, such as
    [​IMG]
    Along with the fan duct would greatly improve cooling capabilities.
    Move the duct to the outer portion of the shroud to prevent blocking air flow inside the shroud.

    To aid in moving more air through the shroud when the fan is not pulling enough, one way trap doors/flaps can be added.
    Note the six trap doors(check valves) on this Derale assembly.
    [​IMG]

    This will provide greater cooling capacity and prevent backflow of hot air through the radiator.
    With the increased cooling capability this will reduce underhood temps and your running hot issues. You will also be able to remove the pusher fan which is costing you more energy(power) that you do not need to be wasting. The cabin will also be cooler as the engine bay will not be overly heat soaked anymore. Which in turn will require less cooling.

    When adding A/C, the improved ducting of the radiator fan will allow for proper cooling of both condenser and the radiator without the need for an electric pusher fan.

    I would not add an A/C system until AFTER the original cooling problems have been resolved
    Adding A/C will just compound the hot running/overheating issue.

    Adding more heat to an already heat soaked system is going to cause more heat related problems, not just hot running issues but electrical issues as the alternator will not charge correctly if it is overheating.
    This will then affect the electrical system including ignition. Which will then have the engine running poorly.

    Need to build that wall(and shrouding, and ducting)
    Make cooling great again.
     
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  5. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 5,135

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    I agree with all of this. Pusher fans are 25% less efficient than pullers, and the space in front of the motor on the electric fan is going to create a dead spot in the radiator where little air flows through. The goal you have is to get as much air through the entire core of your radiator as possible. A proper shroud will pull air all over, not just through where the fan happens to be in front of.

    Years ago when I stuffed a big Chrysler wedge in my 57 Ford, I had crazy bad overheating issues. The only thing that fixed the problem was a proper shroud, and a giant 7 blade fan from a Cadillac 500. I, like you, put a pusher fan on the front to try to help the problem. It did virtually nothing.

    You could also have a custom radiator built which would probably help you as well, since it might well have a better core design than what it is you're using. They're not as expensive as you may think. The custom radiator I had made from Superior Radiator in Michigan was under $400 and is super nice.
     
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  6. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Hey Mike!

    Since I replaced the water pump, the engine has been cooling perfectly. It rarely gets above 180/190. I put 350 miles on the car a couple weeks ago going to Pistons and Paint with no issues. I'll definitely keep that shroud style in mind. Once the summer comes back around, idling in traffic may become an issue again.

    The whole AC project is on hold right now anyway. I mostly wanted to get the bracket made. Once I hit my winter break, the plan is to rip out the interior, patch and seal the floors, add some door seals, and do a full rewire of the car with a Painless kit (trust me, that battery terminal bugs the shit out of me). When I get all of that done, then I can justify some more time and money on AC stuff.
     
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  7. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Well, the time has come. I tore into Baloo today.

    IMG_2772.JPG


    I ripped all the interior out to see what I had going on under the carpet.

    IMG_2776.JPG

    It ended up being worse than I wanted, but better than I expected.

    IMG_2774.JPG
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    I spent most of today cleaning everything up to really see what I had to work with.

    IMG_2778.JPG
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    I’ll just be using flat plate to patch the floor. I’m not a professional and this isn’t a show car. I’m picking up steel tomorrow. Any recommendations on what gauge? Currently planning to get 12.

    Once the floor is patched up, I’ll use sound deadening on the whole thing. Should be here Wednesday. Once all that is done, I’ll run up to Summit and get a Painless kit.
     
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  8. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 7,243

    BJR
    Member

    12 gauge is awful thick, might want to get something closer to what was used originally. Like 16 or 18.
     
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  9. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Yeah, after posting I had already changed my mind to 14 or 16. Only reason I want it thicker is because I don’t have a way to roll beads.
     
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  10. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 5,135

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    That's still too thick. 18G is the correct gauge. If you use too thick of steel, you can run into issues welding it in place where the heat you need to penetrate the heavier material liquifies the good floor you're trying to weld it to. Those floors look pretty good for the most part, it's not like you're putting huge patches in where you need to roll beads in the them. If you do get a section that oil cans, a few well placed hits with a ball pein hammer will take care of it.
     
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  11. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 3,228

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    It's not like you have to have great looking beads that would be visible when the repair is done, you can make a buck to hammer form a bead in it to stiffen the floor panel that will accomplish what you need.
     
  12. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    So, I managed to screw up my knee yesterday, so it may be a couple of days before I’m back on it. I did pick up the sheet metal today. Couldn’t find 18 gauge locally, so went with 16. I swear I used to only pay $45 a sheet. Good lord metal got expensive.

    IMG_2791.JPG

    Also trashed the nasty carpet.
    IMG_2789.JPG

    Thinking about either navy blue or black for new carpet. Haven’t decided yet. Still lots to do. Hopefully back on it soon. Might make the trip to Summit and get the wiring harness since I can’t get much done today anyway.
     
  13. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Trying to get at least the passenger side done today. Hardly professional, but better than it was when I started.

    IMG_2811.JPG
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    Trying to find the motivation to get the driver side at least started. I’m sore as hell right now.
     
  14. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Not as far as I hoped I’d get tonight. I’ll be back on it tomorrow.

    IMG_2819.JPG
     
  15. either way it is progress. It all takes time, often more than we expected initially. I always try to do something on the project each day no matter how insignificant at times.
    I will be glad to see that wiring rats nest eliminated, but that is another challenge:)
     
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  16. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Well, done. Sorta. Without a doubt the worst welds of my life. Thank god no one will ever see them. I’m gonna need you guys to do me a favor, no zooming in.

    IMG_2828.JPG
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    Now to clean everything up and add primer. My sound deadening came in today, but not sure I’ll have time to get started. Once that’s done, it’ll be time to go pick up a painless kit.
     
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  17. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Hey, what are these? They look like a relay and a resistor for ignition, but since I have HEI, I assume I don’t need them? I’m itching to rip stuff out and throw it away.

    IMG_2837.JPG

    My sound deadening didn’t come with a roller, and now they won’t be here till tomorrow. Got family stuff going on today for Christmas, so not sure I have time to run up to Summit. May have to be a burner/rest day.

    IMG_2838.JPG
     
  18. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 39,681

    loudbang
    Member

    Yes the one on the left is the ballast resistor not sure if with your new system if you need it or not. Can you tell us how your new system is wired?

    The one on the right MIGHT be your horn relay try disconnecting it and see if your horn still beeps.
     
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  19. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Yeah, I think I’m starting to get it figured out. I’ve been going through the wiring diagram from painless. It seems to answer pretty much every question I’ve had.

    IMG_2841.JPG
    IMG_2842.JPG

    It’s funny, I have been looking forward to the wiring for so long. Electrical wiring is how I got into cars in the first place. Starting to get a little intimidated looking through the manual, but not too panicked yet.
     
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  20. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Back on it today. Lots to get done in what feels like not near enough time.

    IMG_2893.JPG
     
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  21. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Ok, how on earth do I remove the light switch? Every other knob has a set screw except this one. Any ideas?
    IMG_2899.JPG
     
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  22. gatz
    Joined: Jun 2, 2011
    Posts: 1,601

    gatz
    Member

    Should be a small “button” on top towards the back of the switch. (Or, it could be on the side as it looks like from your pic; the switch is about 90 from normal). Press it down while gently pulling out the knob. It may stick a little due to age, just keep working it. You’ll feel it click.
    Then the bezel will unscrew from the switch stem.
     
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  23. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    That was it! Thank you!
     
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  24. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Ok what the hell. I was supposed to start putting stuff back together. Instead I keep taking shit apart.

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    I did have some good help today though!
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    I plan to go with vintage air eventually. Is there any advantage to me keeping or having the original heater core repaired? What about the manual heater control?
    IMG_2904.JPG
    IMG_2903.JPG
     
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  25. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 7,243

    BJR
    Member

    If you get a Vintage Air with heat, cool, and defrost, there is no reason to keep any of the old heater parts except for the defrost ducts at the top of the dash.
     
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  26. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    I’m not running a ballast resistor, so I don’t need to hook this up, correct?

    IMG_2942.JPG
     
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  27. no ballast, no wire. You are doing good.
     
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  28. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    First test of the new harness works! Engine bumper over (didn’t try for a full start). Brake lights, headlights, turn signals, and flashers work (didn’t have those before). Going to wait for daylight to try out anything else.

    Still a ways to go. Need to add my fuel pump and wire up the gauges still.

    I’m more confident in my ability to get Baloo back up and running than I am my ability to clean up the garage when I’m finished.

    IMG_2944.JPG
     
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  29. The best thing about a harness kit is that it forces you to do things THEIR way. I gutted my Ford, even had the dash out which made it simpler.

    Take some measurements and build a harness "board". I started with the steering column as zero and went out both sides from there. Get a piece of 1/2" plywood or flake board. I still have my board, it is about 18" x 36". I used finishing nails to route the wires.

    So I broke out anything that goes to the dash switches, separated out what went thru the firewall and to the back of the car. I made an excel wire list of anything special that came up.
     
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  30. pvfjr
    Joined: Apr 28, 2020
    Posts: 159

    pvfjr
    Member
    1. Hydro Tech

    I just read this whole thread. It looks like you're learning a lot as you go, and have shown a lot of perseverance. It won't always be this difficult. It's always the project you cut your teeth on that seems like a major basket case. You'll be spotting more things before they go wrong over time.

    That ground up parking brake bracket...was that on the same side that you mentioned having a wheel bearing with a bit of drag to it? I wonder if that's what you were feeling?

    Don't beat yourself up on the sheet metal welds too much. It's way harder than welding heavy tubing and such. Anything hot enough to penetrate well and "look good" will be prone to warping. Continuous beads are out. Blowing holes is easy. It's just a tough job. I say if you can stand on it, and it keeps the rainwater out, you're good to go.

    Nice job on the AC bracket, that looks like it came out great from here! Hopefully you get to use it someday.

    I'd add another vote for a proper clutch fan with a proper shroud. You're spending more effort chasing your tail and pontificating upon other theories. Electric fans are weak--if they're not, then they draw too many amps and will burden your charging system. Fixed fans rob power and economy when they're not needed, and they're obnoxious! Choosing a well matched, quality clutch is key. I've got an Olds 455 pulling an 11k lb motorhome with a 4k lb boat over mountain passes in the Cascades in the summer. PO had a fixed fan in there that drove me nuts, but lacked a shroud and it still ran hot. I swapped in the proper shroud, fan, and clutch and no more problems. And, I can hear the engine purr, and we can have conversations in the cab.

    I've been there with the oil leaks on the 455 intake. I listened to the wrong advice and tried to use those end seals; the one in the back blew out. I must've used a 3/8" bead of Permatex Ultra Grey after that. Let it sit overnight--no more leaks. Hopefully your double-stacked gaskets last a long time.

    I had to go full custom with the oil pressure sender plumbing at the front of the motor too. The PO had a setup that was difficult to tighten, and interfered with the timing cover. A trip to Ace for some generic parts had that leak fixed as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021

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