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Technical New hemi owner

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Omarsvette, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 219

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    i have a few questions about my new 331 hemi. It came out of a 54 newyorker. 4barrel and no trans housing. I'm going to put it in my 31 ford and I plan on using a 727. As I'm shopping around I notice that some say big block or small block 727. Is hemi considerd a big block? Which 727 should I look for? I understand I will an adapter.
     
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  2. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 8,932

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    The small block 727 may be hard to find but the smaller case would be a plus.
    The kits are referring to what 727 transmission you are trying to adapt to your hemi.
     
  3. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 219

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    Ok so your saying any 727 will fit with it proper adapter?
     
  4. I’m not sure what’s available for adapters for an early Henie but small and big block transmissions are definitely different bolt patterns, contact 73RR here, I believe he may sell adapters or at least will steer you in the right direction


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  5. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 1,970

    Budget36
    Member

    I sold a 727 from a LA 360 to a guy who was going to put it behind his hemi
     
  6. gatz
    Joined: Jun 2, 2011
    Posts: 1,320

    gatz
    Member

    I used a Hot Heads adapter. This was the price in Aug 2012

    upload_2018-10-31_22-30-0.png

    Bought for a '56 331 HEMI to "small block" 727. To me it appears that the lower half of the adapter need not be there in the sense that there's no strength gained by having the adapter a full circle; the bolt pattern ends just below crank centerline anyway. Some of it could be cut out making a large inverted "U" to allow easier access to the flex-plate-to-TC bolts, which is a slight PITA.
    BTW, IIRC, the bolt pattern for the TC and flex-plate only clocks or matches one way.

    You might consider an A518; the overdrive version of the 727, if you plan on a lot of highway use or have a high ratio rear-end. A 727 can be converted to an A518 if necessary.
    If that's your choice, PM me and I'll forward an article by Jim O'Clair about it.

    Some basic dimensions comparing the 904- A500 & 727-A518 xmsns
    727 vs A-518 Dimensions.JPG


    This is the 727 transmission I used. An A518 would be the same view from this end.
    Note the "flatted side" on the passenger's side (at left in pic)
    and the 1/4-20 dust shield holes at the bottom

    727 bellhsng view_1a.jpg
    I modified the lower casting between the tapped holes for wrench clearance.

    In comparison, this is a pic of a "big block" 727 grabbed off the 'net and cleaned up a bit.

    727 Big Block.jpg

    I have drawings of both Small and Big block bolt/dowel patterns if you need them.
    gatz
     
  7. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 536

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Congrats on being a new hemi owner! The small block 727 bolt pattern is mostly the same as the early Hemi, except for a few bolts that don't line up. So you use a sbm trans and an adapter.
     
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  8. 392
    Joined: Feb 27, 2007
    Posts: 825

    392
    Member

    Small block 727 is what you need, and a alternative would be a 90-95 518 or known as a 46rh overdrive and can use the same adaptor plate as the 727
     
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  9. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 219

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    Thanks guys. So small block 727 it is. Are they all created equal? Car to truck. Mind you, I'm not racing, I'm keep my coupe a stock cruiser. Do they have the same first gear?

    I never heard of the 518. What cars came with those? I assume since its o/d it's got a low first?
     
  10. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,555

    4tford
    Member

  11. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,484

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Also make sure the small block 727 you get has a slip-yoke output shaft. 1965 or later I believe had this. The earlier versions used a ball and trunion joint, were cable shifted because of the push-button shifter, and also had the parking brake built onto the back of the transmission.
     
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  12. F.O.G
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 258

    F.O.G
    Member
    from Pacific,Mo

    You can also use the 904 Torqueflite, they can be built cheaply to hold 400 hp. A neat trick is
    to use low gear planetary from a jeep CJ, 2.72 ratio compared to 2.40, makes a difference. The 904
    takes up less room if that is an issue. They were used behind engines up to 360 from the factory.
     
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  13. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 3,783

    sunbeam
    Member

    X2 on 73RR adapter
     
  14. The A904 doesn't work with early Hemi's due to the higher starter location on the the transmission.
    The adapter from 73RR aka Quality engineered components is highly recommended.
     
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  15. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 4,567

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I got a real nice adapter from Hot Heads for my 330 Desoto running an A518 transmission. they have adapters for everything hemi.
     
  16. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,120

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Look for 1992 through 1995 Dodge Dakota's, Ram's, and Vans for a A518. They are the same bolt pattern as a small block 727. They have a small u shaped hole on the top for the speed sensor used on the Magnum V8's. That won't affect function, it's just a opening for the crankshaft sensor. They have a similar shaped oil pan as a 727, only much deeper(I used to make a adapter to lower the oil filters in 727's and mount A518 pans on them as a cheap Deep Sump set up. But now I think a kit is made). So look for that, so you don't grab a A500 by mistake(it's the 904 version), which has a fairly square oil pan with one diagnal corner.

    The torque converters have Lock Up as a feature. There is a three pin connector at the driver side rear behind the shifter lever on top of the case above the oil pan. The center pin is 12V positive, the front pin is negative grounded to engage OD, the rear pin is negative grounded to engage lock up. NOTE:. A518's have a symmetrical bolt pattern on the Torque Converter, the 727's were asymmetrical. Make sure to get the correct 8 bolt hemi flex plate. Otherwise, you may be able to just drill that one hole to fit it...

    The 1996-2002 will work, BUT you will need to use a computer as these are fully electronic.


    PM me if you want to, I am a walking encyclopedia of useless Mopar information... I am always happy to help!

    -Jack H.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  17. paintman27
    Joined: Apr 23, 2011
    Posts: 234

    paintman27
    Member
    from new jersey

  18. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,120

    classiccarjack
    Member

    That thing isn't street friendly... Can you imagine cruising through a school zone revving away? LOL

    I hot rodded my daily driver in my twenties. Everywhere I went, the engine revved... Big can and 4000 RPM stall.... It got old quick! Listened to a much older friend, re-cammed the engine, put a 340 converter in it, fell in love!

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  19. paintman27
    Joined: Apr 23, 2011
    Posts: 234

    paintman27
    Member
    from new jersey

    Yea 38800 is kind of tall. I was talking more about the trans itself.
     
  20. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 880

    deucemac
    Member

    You can also by an adapter from Patrick at Wilcap. Hot Head adapters are mad by Wilcap. Patrick carries Hot Heads stuff and Hot Heads sells his adapters. Works out well to buy everything in one place depending where you live. Patrick told me this when I bought my adapter from him and mentioned that I needed to contact Hot Heads for a timing cover. Bought both from Wilcap.
     
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  21. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,120

    classiccarjack
    Member

    That's good to know, thanks for the tip.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  22. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,120

    classiccarjack
    Member

    When you do your build, are you willing to take pics and post your progress? I am really interested on how this will look. The place covers are going to be wider than the firewall(bonus).... Very cool!

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  23. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,120

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Spell check is not my friend!!! VALVE COVERS NOT PLACE COVERS... If I type too fast the auto correct doesn't do me any favors. Sheesh...

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  24. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 219

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    yes i will post pics, and show progress. in a couple weeks i will be driving to bakersfield to pick up the chassis. im choosing between the stock valve covers or m/t covers. the cost doesnt concern me. i think ill keep the original 4 barrel intake but im going to consider others.

    thanks guys for the answers it helps.

    classiccarjack i will PM you some basic question about my hemi im too embarrased to ask on this forum haha. im a bbc or sbc guy so this is new.
     
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  25. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,120

    classiccarjack
    Member

    It's all good... We all are about learning a thing or two...

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    CudaChick1968 likes this.
  26. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 4,567

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am learning that there are 3 different 518 transmissions of the non fully electronic genre. The lock up, with that U cut in the bell, a light duty with no U and no lock up but the same flat right side pan rail, and a HD that has a bulge on the front right corner of the pan.
    @classiccarjack , do I have that right?
     
  27. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,120

    classiccarjack
    Member

  28. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,120

    classiccarjack
    Member

    The diesel or 5.9 L Cummins had a non lock up version without a notch in the top for the crank position sensor.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  29. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,120

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Non lock up transmissions have a 2 pin connector, one for OD.

    Lock up transmission has a 3 pin, one for lock up and one for OD

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  30. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,120

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Note: the other pin not mentioned above is for 12V power... FYI

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     

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