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Projects New Front Engine Dragster Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by blender, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 407

    carshopowner
    Member

  2. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,283

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    What? no reverse lockout? even though reverse wont engage unless trans brake is depresed you still need a seperate lock out device acording to the rules.
    Other than that --Kinda cool
     
  3. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,372

    bobw
    Member

    Yes, "kinda cool" The fastest and quickest flathead dragster on the planet is "kinda cool". I was standing near the starting line and it is one of the most impressive dragsters I've seen in my 55 years in the sport.

    Way to go Schnell Family.
     
  4. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    after all the hard work up to this point today I got to sit in the Monster. Even with a little blood on my arm it sure felt good!
     

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  5. I'm glad you decided to "go big" on the upper rail width. When I laid out the Wyo-digger (here somewhere on the HAMB), I made the upper rails WAY too narrow (19 1/2" O/C). I can squeeze into it, but it locked us into running a small-block. That was the original plan, but now there's no alternative.

    Yours is looking great so far. Good to see you taking a lot of Bruce's advice. He's very opinionated, but usually right!
     
  6. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    Yes the beast is big and wide, and so is the chassis. Bruce is the man I'm glad I have vonage because I call him a lot. I did a bog frame because it want it to as easy as my knees can handle. 7 operations and they just don't work like they use to. Now I am trying to figure out building the seat. Got any ideas on metal thickness?

    Thanks for hanging in there with me everyone!
     
  7. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,976

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    A guy sittin in his dragster with a cigar ,, It don't get any better than that :D,, Looks good Tim Jones
     
  8. I'm sure Bruce or Rooman would know if there is an actual spec. I've never seen one in NHRA rules... I'm using .080 because it's what we have. It probably doesn't need to be that heavy?
     
  9. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,283

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    3003 .050 easy to form hard to weld
    3003 .063 harder to form eaiser to weld
    get some heavy single layer cardboard, tape and sissors and go for it, if you can make one out of that stuff you can make one out of aluminum.
    Another tip---I have done many of them,all different and it takes a lot of time to do a nice one figure about 10hrs
    EX, This is the problem I have with schools, while using .080 is not wrong , why dont you teach them the right way and use the correct material?
    Story: When I was in HS metal shop I built an enduro go-kart . Came time to build the fuel tank and I designed a 5gal side tank all out of 6061, 8 peices and welded all the seams- not one bend.Knowing what I know now and what my skill level was back then, "IF" I where able to get that kart on the track I would be DEAD now. My teacher back then was only interested in drinking coffee and making sure no one lost any fingers. It would have really been nice to have some direction from him on the proper way to do things, is that not the job of a teacher?
     
  10. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    Its 4:15 the dark one, and with all that is going on in the shop, I am going to work on the seat and the steering box mount and cross bar, Prep 2 engines, get about 40 customer parts ready to powder coat and all of this before the guys get in at 8. BECAUSE ITS CLEANING DAY! I am going to be tired this evening, but I am positive they are going to be exhausted. Then I am on the dragster all weekend!
     
  11. Not arguing the point ONE bit, Bruce, and we've been down this road before... I'm the only one on staff that really cares about this project. There is NO budget, and the Street Rod class has .080 alum. in stock. That's the only reason for the material decisions I've been forced to make on this car. Hell, I had to trade some stuff out to get the .250 for the motor plate.

    We go through this same dilemma on a lot of different projects... I believe that the methods we teach are valid, and we do explain the differences in materials and processes the students might see in a "real" race shop. I guess where we disagree is that I believe that the experience, even being a little different, is better than no experience at all.

    Sorry Blender, hijack over...I think. :D
     
  12. tylercrawford
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 726

    tylercrawford
    Member
    from Buford, GA
    1. S.F.C.C.

    Yeah, this would really be its own thread but as a former student in a motorsports program you took whatever you could get. We had leftover cars from the Richard Petty Driving Experience to learn fab on, high speed steel everything for the 1 mill and 1 lathe we had in the motorsports shop (almost every lathe tool was a hand-formed tool), and material was sourced from everywhere and most often scrap from local shops for tax purposes. Very rarely did we have new shiny parts and it was usually only the bolt selection as we had a deal with industrial depot and had their signs up in the bays.

    Bruce, have you donated time/materials to the school you went to/your local technical college or just complained about it on the internet?
     
  13. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,283

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    My school no longer offers any industrial arts classes, And yes I did show a group of bodyshop students from a local college how to use a English Wheel to make complexed patch panels for a rusted out VW, somthing that the instructor was unaware that it could even be done.
     
  14. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    Hey everyone how are you ,I'm tired as hell its 2:30 everyone called in sick today so I GUESS MY GUYS ARE FOLLOWING THE BUILD! IF you are following have a great weekend and your FIRED!
    Now after getting that off my chest just destroyed to boxes, I told my wife I need some large cardboard and she took it on her self to help me get that. I was in the shape of a dresser, Not the route I was thinking but it looks great in the house.
    I am going to cut and tape if I have to to get the shape I need and see how it comes out. No problem on the hi jack, I was a Auto Mech High school student and that is what has put me on the crazy racecar path all of these years. And it made me think about a reply and I wanted to contact my old school and see about helping out and like Bruce I found that my school had cut out those programs about 5 or 6 years ago, I'm trying to think what happened about that time that could have ended the program. And then it hit me, but I'm not going to mention the idiot in the White Houses name. As to not be political. But back to my dragster. I am looking at the specs and I am going to use a 1" .058 tube for the steering box mount and wonder if any of you guys may have a picture I could look at to get a better idea on mounting it. I was planning one using 2 motor tabs on each side and fishmouthing a tube in the 1" and run a bolt in on each side. Oh yeah another thing I'm running a 9" rearend and not sure of the anti rotation mounting any ideas on that would help as well So Thanks and Mr. Bruce I will be on the phone with you tommarrow Im sure. EvERYONE HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!
     
  15. Blender,
    In case you haven't seen it, there's an excellent build thread on Glenn Lever's (carshopowner) FED on here. Glenn also has his own site with more detailed photos:
    http://www.leverfamilysite.com/2010_Front_Engine_Dragster_Root.htm

    The car was built by Rooman. The pics might answer some of your remaining questions. I know they helped me out a lot.
     
  16. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 407

    carshopowner
    Member

    From the tread.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Note how the steering box and linkage swings up to allow "easy" removal of the transmission

    [​IMG]

    Another good place for FED questions is

    http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
     
  17. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    I really like that I am building the swing up style as well, It help me to look at the Lever Build and see how he mounted the support on the steering box mount bar, I case you haven't realized I am not sure what everything is called so I make up my own names for things. Everything is going well on the chassis and the shop is hammered busy so I dont get to post as much as I first did when I started. One of my friends came in when I was working on the seat and said as old I was I should just put a rocking chair in it. I am having a little trouble fitting the roll bar by myself so I need some ideas on a jig or something for that if anyone has anything. Thanks Again for looking!
     
  18. Sorry it's not shown in this picture, but we built a simple fixture that clamped to the upper rail and held the center upright hoop in place (if you look closely, it runs all the way to the front, and the side hoop is split into 2 pieces). Once that center piece was up, we just measured from the rear reference fixture in the photo down each rail the same distance to locate the mounting points for the side hoops.

    I'm sure one of the gurus probably has a better idea, but it worked.
     

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  19. dwrfab
    Joined: May 21, 2006
    Posts: 407

    dwrfab
    Member
    from Dallas TX.

    I'm thinking the second roll hoop should be at least 1" off of the lower upright.
    dwrfab Don Ross
     

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  20. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    Today started laying out the roll bar I used 1 5/8 .095. I Have my front rollbar set at 20 degrees and then went ahead and did a 6 point cage I still have a couple of parts left to put in I am using streamline tube on the top between the secondary hoop. A little confused about the the sfi specs as far as where bars are suppose to be I am thinking my size and long legs may cause me some problems on positioning. I have the front roll bar and the forward set upright 6" between the two. and I am about inch ahead of the other upright with my secondary bar, But I am way above the spec for the chassis and I have to make it fit me, not the inspector. So If I have to slow the car down and only run local tracks so be it. I did something interesting with the seat and will post pics of it later. Thanks for checking out the build. Mr Bruce thanks for the help yesterday.
    All in all I have to say it looks really good! I'm getting excited.
     

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  21. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    OK I want to know which one of you sick, twisted, sadistic chassis builders came up with the idea if fitting streamline tubing in the roll bar? I have been cutting and filing and sanding and grinding for hours and cannot figure it out for the life of me.
    I am a pretty smart guy and this is driving me crazy!
     
  22. Hey Blender...if it makes you feel any better, that tube is directly behind another tube, so the benefit of stream tubing is pretty much out the window...

    Punt.
     
  23. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,052

    rooman
    Member

    The biggest benefit is the extra room above the driver's helmet.

    Roo
     
  24. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,283

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    If it was easy , we chassie builders could not charge as much as we do.
     
  25. Ahh, good point from the expert! That's cutting it close! :eek:
     
  26. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    Streamline has its benefits and looks great in the roll bar, I have just never fitted it before. But after 2 cigars, and a little cussing and a few sailing pipes I figured it out and once I did I couldn't get over how easy it was. I was just trying to make it harder than it was. Got to get my Halo bars bent and its done. Getting ready to start running the front rails and axle.
     
  27. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    Well I got the roll cage almost complete. STREAMLINE TUBING included. Mow I will run over to Boogie Scott's shop in the morning and have him make the bends in my 1" Halo bars, I don't have a die that small with my bender. And that will almost have my backend of the beast finished. I started making the swing bars for the steering after looking at Rooman's chassis. I will set the front bars up on my jig so I can start laying out the front frame rails and get the axle attached. I am using one of the Mark Williams front axles that was given to me by Steve Nicholl. If I can get this layed out by the weekend I can get the front wheels and tires on and maybe get the rearend setup and put it on the ground in the next week. Shops been slow his week so I have spent most of my time on the dragster. Its 7 o'clock and I think I am going to call it a day! Thanks for checking in!
     
  28. FYI Blender, you can buy the 1" 6R die from Speedway separately for about $80. I picked one up and modified it to work in our JD2 rotary draw bender...don't know what type you have of course.
     
  29. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    Well today was kind of a half watching the Saints and working on the seat. I have got the carbon fiber seat to work in the chassis but I am going to have to remove a couple of uprights and change the angle. I see a area in the seat that concerns me so I am going to do add another layer of cf in the center of the seat. I am also going to have to make some adjustments to the seat formers and do those a little different for bottom support, I wanted to thank everyone for following the build It just hit 6000 views so that's just crazy. Got my front axle out and started mounting hardware on it with the wheels and tires to get ready to start laying out the front end. Since I am using a MW front axle I also have to rethink the way I am going to mount it and want to check to see what my ground clearance is on the front end. It was designed to mount in the lower tubes with the bolt bungs already welded in the axle so that may be the only way I see mounting it. Well going to spend the rest of the day with the scotts bright going over the tubing and oiling it a bit, this LA humidity makes it surface rust over night.

    Thanks,
     

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  30. blender
    Joined: Sep 24, 2006
    Posts: 56

    blender
    Member

    Today started working on setting up the front axle, bearings,seals and wheel. All went pretty smooth. I had to do a little machining on the washers that the spindle nut goes in it was a little to thick for me to get a cotter pin in. I am wondering if there is a set length for the radius rods, a formula or something for the wheel base which is 160". I only have 4 " of clearance from the bottom of the tires to the bottom of the axle so it looks like mounting it in the lower tubes if going to be only option.
    When I filet the upper and lower tubes should I weld a plate on each side of the tubes to make them stronger?

    Thanks
     

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