Projects New engine or rebuild?

Age old question I know but here goes anyway.
I'm finally moving forward with my 60 Starliner and the first consideration is do I want to rebuild the original engine (352 Y-block V8) or replace with a crate motor. The original was running poorly when I got it but it was likely something with the fuel system and nothing with the engine itself (it ran fine but would not keep running). I'd like to keep it numbers matching and know that this series is a good engine. However, it's only rated at 300 hp and for a two-door weighing almost 2 tons that's not a lot of power. I'd like to see if we can get some more power out of the original engine. The shop that will be doing my restoration mentioned a range for a rebuild from $4,500-$10,000 depending on what I want to do. I know that a crate motor (something like a Coyote) would be in that range too depending on specs. What ever I do I want to keep it simple (for example no fuel injection).
So, new or old?

 

Just be sure to check out whatever shop you select in the archives.

Charlie Stephens

 

352 is an FE, not a Y block. I'd definately keep it FE! Cubic inch versions can be built up to 500ish with a stroker crank....
All it takes is money!

 

I misspoke. It's a Y code from the serial number. This corresponds to a 352 4 barrel engine.

 

I am not a "tradionalist" when it comes to my cars I just build what I like but that said I love old engines. I love the sound, the smell, the feel. It isn't the same with new stuff. I sold a buddy a 57 T-bird body, he put a coyote in it, I would have gone Y block with a shit load of of chrome. He an I differ on most everything and that's ok. I mean...I'm right and he is wrong but I still let him buy the drinks.

My point is, hell I don't really have a point other than put a nice warmed up Y Block or FE in it. Leave the coyote to the new OT's. Hey, you cant spell Coyote without OT. Add that to the quote page!

 

You won't receive any love on this site for swapping in a Coyote, being a traditional site and all.
The 352 can be built to achieve much higher HP then what it was in stock form..all it takes is cash.
Good luck with your build.
Any pics?

 

You can rebuild the 352 FE a lot cheaper than $4500.00. Depends on how much work you can do yourself. I would keep the 352. It's a great engine.

 

I’d keep the FE....390’s...427...all FE’s...my 2 barrel, bone stock, 352 in my 61 had no problems motoring down the highway at 75 mph..and no issues in day to day traffic..one of the best cars I ever owned...

 

That particular 352 is pretty good motor and I would keep it. I do understand your conundrum. I have a flathead car in the shop now. I hope they don’t run up a bill that costs more than an engine swap. For an upgrade swap motor, I would be in the market for an H.O. 352 FE like yours. Do you want a traditional rod or custom or a modern street machine? Both have their appeal.

 

352 is a nice engine... They sound nice with a pair of dual Turbo mufflers or some Porters and no tinny X pipe nonsense. Use a stock Ford performance street cam. A set of trips and there you go.. These old cars are not going to run circles around the new performance cars period. But who cares, no new car can cruise like these old cars can. Going down the road with the pipes bellowing a nice tone and the sun shining off the chrome with your arm out the window, there a certain feel to them that's like a high to me..

I always loved the sound of those early Ford starters. Back in the old days you could always tell a Ford starting up..

 

The 352 doesn't get much love, but people forget it was the first 'purpose built' production Hi-po motor to come out of Detroit. The 360HP 352 offered in '60 was built as a performance motor from the block out, not just a regular production base with bolted-on goodies that was normal up until then. So the heritage is there...

Even the vanilla versions can be made to run. 'Back in the day', I put a 352 PI version together on a short budget and it was competitive with similar-sized motors. Light head work, a second-hand aluminum 428 PI intake and 427 solid cam woke it right up. Beat the snot out of it, only trouble I had was exploding generators... LOL Those early blocks could usually take a big overbore (with sonic checking), if it could be bored .130 over you can build a budget 428 using stock parts. Step up to a stroker crank with a smaller bore and 400+ inches are easy. With the modern tech now available for these, 400+ HP should be easy to attain, without busting the budget.

The Coyote is a hell of a motor, but it makes it's power above 4K RPM, not a good recipe for moving that heavy Starliner.

 

It's been a slow build as my metal guy has been taking him time. No worries on my end as I'm not paying for storage. A few pics post blasting and some metal work.

 

I wish I had more know-how and time but I'm going to leave this part up to the professionals. The shop has a great reputation and I don't want to risk messing something up. Of course I'd like to spend less but I live in an area with not many options. This shop is more than an hour away as it is.

 

Yes...I had dual smitty’s ran out the back of my 61..beautiful sound going down the road..

 

Why waste money on a 352, when a 390 bolts right in. Build a 390 and get more HP for less than a built 352.

 

Don't dump on the FE, there's more to power than just a peak HP number that guys like to throw around in the HP pissing contest. The FE, especially the 390, has loads of torque and low end grunt, which is exactly what's going to get your yacht moving. If you can find a 390, throw a set of Edelbrock Performer RPM heads on, a decent cam and intake, and you'll making some serious HP that will be reliable and fun to drive. Even in lieu of a full engine swap, if you want to stick with the 352, you can certainly free up some HP with the basic bolt ons of intake, headers, good 4 bbl carb.

 

Rebuild what you have. Crate motors are a crap shoot.

 

Plus all the stuff you will have to change to put a coyote in there. Mechanical and electrical. Lippy

 

How bad is the engine? From your description there may be nothing much wrong with it, find out why it won't keep running and fix it. Do a compression test and check the oil pressure. If it has good compression, good oil pressure, and runs without any bangs or knocks you can save thousands of $$$$ bucks by not rebuilding it. Could be a sharp tuneup, oil change and a few breaking miles are all it needs.

If the engine is worn it may be possible to freshen it up with new rings, bearings, timing chain and a valve job for not much money. Summit and others sell overhaul kits for this purpose, not too expensive. If you do this you can put in a mild cam, add a 4 barrel intake and headers and pick up an extra 30 or 40 HP .

It all depends how fast you want to go and how much you want to spend. For a nice cruiser the 352 should work well and have plenty of power for all practical purposes. If you really want to burn rubber, and gas mileage is no object you could go to a hopped up 460 but be prepared for 10 MPG or less.

If it was mine I would give the 352 a chance. If it runs half way decent why not try it out, if you are not satisfied with the performance you can always change it later. But don't forget, a different engine is only the beginning of the expense. If you go that route you will need a different transmission, possibly a driveshaft, radiator, etc etc.

 

I swapped a 352 for a 302 in my 67.
Should have kept the 352. Needed a rebuild. The 302 is not the torque engine the FE is. I kept the 352 in case I drop it in my mercury.
And I know an older 302 isn’t a coyote.
That 352 4v could be a lot of fun and look great for a period build. If your doin big wheels and brakes, drop the new stuff in it. If doing a resto/older style hot rod, I would rather have the FE.
If you do a little looking around you might locate a 428.
An upgrade would be adding an OD trans. Adaptors are available for both a GM and Ford OD auto.
Starliners make killer customs.

 

Thanks.
The engine was running fine when I got it but as soon as you took your foot off the gas it would stall out. It might have been bad gas from sitting (the car was outside for about a year). The odometer was at 60K but that may have been 160K as there is no hundred thousands place on the dial. Once I started working on it the transmission and oil seals all started to leak.
I've got it in my mind that the current motor is going to be underpowered, given that this was a pre-muscle car and as I've said it weighs almost 2 tons. So I was hoping to be able to upgrade to get more umph. If I could do that would minimal effort as you suggest then that may be a way to go. I'm also installing air and I know that can eat some hp. If I could drive one with an original 352 I'd get some sense of how much more power I think I need. I have no frame of reference. I know I don't want to be merging onto the highway and having to struggle to get to 75 before getting knocked off the road by a semi.

As far as I know it's all original so a new chain, rings, bearings, etc. are likely needed anyway.

It has a 4 barrel but I've always thought about a newer cam.

 

I want to go a little larger on the wheels (it has 15 all around, probably go 16 in front and 17 in the back to improve the stance) along with adding disc brakes in the front. It will be resto-mod but more on the cruiser side (I don't want a 700 hp beast!).

 

People drove them 70 mph when new. Pretty sure it will do a burnout. Why do you think under powered? Are you going racing?

 

I honestly just don't know what it's capable of. The only time I drove it was the 4 miles to my house from where it was dropped off by the freight truck. I had to keep on the gas so it would not die on the road (it did anyway, several times). Once I had it in the garage I started taking it apart so I never drove it when it was working well.

It could be fine as is and just need to be freshened up. I honestly don't know. I would hate to get it done and decide it needs more power after I could have done some work while it was apart.

No, no plans for racing. Passing, merging, etc. on the highway with no fear is what I want. Our speed limit down here is 70 mpg so of course everyone is going 75-80.

 

2.91 rear gear. No overdrive needed. Plenty of power . 360 hp with 4 bbl. When rebuilt like new it will be fine. Plenty of guys with same power to weight ratio are having a blast. Big car big motor. Look at the model a builds. Little v8's . Little power. But same power to weight ratio. Factories build them to drive.

 

Check power to weight of newer vehicles. A lot of them are in your range. most cars are built between 10 to 14 lbs. per horsepower. Your at 11.5 .

 

Thanks for this.
I've got a email out to my neighbor who has rebuilt some engines. If he can help me rebuild it perhaps I don't need to do much else.

 

Hummmm???
Maybe if ya did I’d right

 

There are several unanswered questions here.

Number one, what are the specs of the 352 that you have? Do you have a low compression 2bbl engine, or do you have the 9.6:1 4bbl mill? The difference is significant, 230 hp to 300 hp, and 50 ft/lbs of torque. If you have the low compression engine with the 2 bbl, it will be adequate but probably leave you desiring more, while the warmed over FE with higher compression and better breathing will be more than sufficient. If you've got it out and partially apart, I don't think it hurts to go through it with new gaskets, and maybe fresh heads, slightly larger cam, and good intake, carb, and exhaust.

Number 2, what transmission are you using? I've been beating this drum hard lately because of a swap I'm currently going through. It seems like everyone wants to talk horsepower and performance and forgets all about the transmission, which is arguably more important. 300 hp into a quality transmission like a TH350 or Torqueflight will give you firm, positive shifts that enhance drivability, while the same 300 hp into a soul-crushing dynaflow or Slim Jim rotohydramatic will feel like you power is being fed through a garbage bag full of molasses. Buying a Wilcap adapter and swapping in an OD trans like a 700R4 and spreading your gear ratios out with a tall OD gear will FEEL like you picked up 100 hp. In its most basic form, a gear acts like a lever arm and multiplies power, so if you've got a tall first gear in the trans, and a OD gear, you can run a 3.73 rear and still plow down the highway at 80 at like 2300 rpm, and also shred the tires from a dead stop.

 

I would rebuild it. While i was doing that i would add better cam ,carb and intake . That's hot rodding. 360 hp ,no problem.