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Customs New Build - Bleeding Brakes (No Pressure)STUMPED

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by DukeCity41, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. DukeCity41
    Joined: Nov 12, 2015
    Posts: 23

    DukeCity41

    Ok, working on the brake system, 4 way disk brakes, right stuff proportional valve, Cardone master cylinder and power booster.Made my own lines leaked all over, took lines off and had a shop do all the flaring- no more leaks. Bench bled the master cylinder, hooked lines up, pump the pedal and have fluid at all the bleeder valves. I open the valves and some air came out, (not as much as i thought for a dry system) and then only get fluid. I started at the rear passenger side, rear drivers side, front passenger side and then the front drivers side. I get NO pressure build up. I made the brake pedal for this car - the rod to the master cylinder moves about 3/4". Is this enough, redo pedal get more stroke, is my proportional valve bad, master cylinder bad, don't know really what to tackle next.
    Thanks for help.
     

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  2. Oldioron
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 711

    Oldioron
    Member

    I got into a Corvette a few years ago and I swore off Corvettes in 1982 but it was my xxxxxx xxxx father in laws and he asked for help. So he bought two GM SS front calipers and I proceeded to swap them out. In a moment of, I was just helping you out he twisted of the lines to the calipers so now I had to replace line from side to side witch ment I had to put in one splice.
    Did I say I hate working on Corvettes add to that working around one old xxxx truck driver. But every splice and caliper we had for that dam car leaked, it took 5 calipers to get two that were good and I went home and dug through my stuff to find a splice that didn't leak. New parts are junk so don't take the fact that they are new to the bank.
    That is and will be my last experience with a Corvette I divorced his daughter four years ago, that's one way not to work on a car.:)
     
  3. David Gersic
    Joined: Feb 15, 2015
    Posts: 1,838

    David Gersic
    Member
    from DeKalb, IL

    RICH B and gimpyshotrods like this.
  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,983

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Way too short a stroke.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
    RICH B and Boneyard51 like this.
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  5. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,074

    Boneyard51
    Member

    May sure your pedal will bottom out the master cylinder and also have clearance when it is in the up position. Easiest way I know to get it right.



    Bones
     
    RICH B and gimpyshotrods like this.
  6. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,567

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I hate those damned proportional valves. They have caused me lots of problems. The spool will shift to block off flow to the side that does not have pressure......and once it shifts, good luck getting it back "to center". This tool should be installed BEFORE you start to pump the pedals. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clp-pv-tool

    Also, you must get the pedal lever ratio right and it sounds like you are a little short on that.
     
    Doublepumper and classiccarjack like this.
  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,983

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    If the isolation valve has moved forward, take out the metering valve from the front, and push the isolation valve back to center. Reinstall the metering valve.

    If the isolation valve has moved rearward, take out the proportioning valve from the rear (the big thing sticking out the back, where the rear brake line attaches), and push the isolation valve back to center. Reinstall the proportioning valve.

    In both cases, you can verify that the isolation valve is centered, by checking for continuity across the terminals of the brake failure warning switch. If you have continuity, it is not centered. Moving it off-center completes the circuit that would be used for a brake failure warning light, were one installed. When it is centered, that circuit is broken.

    I have used both of these procedures on several cars, never had an issue, and was done in minutes. It takes longer to put down protective coverings and sorbents to protect the paint, than it does to do this.
     
  8. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,567

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I agree, Gimpy. It is a real PITA when you've got everything plumbed up and fluid in the system....only to have to break lines and start over. I always manage to screw up something painted.
     
  9. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,411

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Never knew that existed, thank you for the tip.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    rockable likes this.
  10. Doublepumper
    Joined: Jun 26, 2016
    Posts: 355

    Doublepumper
    Member

    Haa! I have one of those and until now, didn't have a clue what was for. Got it with some tools a good friend left me after he passed away unexpectedly.....RIP Mike, miss you buddy:(
     
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  11. DukeCity41
    Joined: Nov 12, 2015
    Posts: 23

    DukeCity41

    I corrected the brake pedal travel, got the tool that holds the proportional valve in its center position. I see the spool moving when the pedal is moved. When the pedal is released the rear reservoir bottom port pushes fluid up about 3/4" , front reservoir doesn't do that. I pump the brakes, open the bleeder valve and fluid squirts out in the rear. In the front fluid comes out but doesn't seem to be as much pressure as in the back (nothing substantial). I get no air when i open the bleeder valves. I get NO pressure build up in the pedal, i don't know what to do next.
     
  12. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,127

    sdluck
    Member

    I don't know of a tool to hold proportional valve,but brake pressure differential valve.[​IMG]
     
  13. Do you have "through the frame" fittings? The kind that bolt through the frame, about 3" long? Read somewhere that the fitting hole being in the middle of the tube leaves just enough air space above for a bubble. Just a thought. What type vehicle are you working on?
     
  14. DukeCity41
    Joined: Nov 12, 2015
    Posts: 23

    DukeCity41

    Working on a 41 Plymouth - The brake setup is not original. Got the power booster and master cylinder from Summit as a set.
     
  15. David Gersic
    Joined: Feb 15, 2015
    Posts: 1,838

    David Gersic
    Member
    from DeKalb, IL

    Block off the MC ports. Hard pedal now?

    Reconnect the MC, block off the prop valve exits. Hard pedal?

    Reconnect the line to the rear, block it off at the T. Hard pedal?

    Reconnect one rear side.

    Reconnect the other rear side.

    Reconnect the passenger front.

    Reconnect the drivers front.

    Somewhere in there the answer will be “no”.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  16. hoop
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 566

    hoop
    Member

    Check the clearance on the pushrod between the master cylinder and the booster.
     
    Black_Sheep likes this.
  17. bonneville bones
    Joined: May 17, 2006
    Posts: 103

    bonneville bones
    Member

    What a concept, actually diagnosing the problem


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  18. bonneville bones
    Joined: May 17, 2006
    Posts: 103

    bonneville bones
    Member

    If you can’t get it to bleed out through the bleeders try pulling a vacuum on the mc reservoir, most of the time that will pull any air from the system. Works great on hydraulic clutches too!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  19. JPaulB
    Joined: Jan 15, 2013
    Posts: 4

    JPaulB
    Member
    from Michigan

  20. JPaulB
    Joined: Jan 15, 2013
    Posts: 4

    JPaulB
    Member
    from Michigan

    In looking at pics 3 and 4 I couldn't tell if you had a vacuum hose on or not. About 5 years ago I was bleeding new set up on my 32 and made the mistake of having the new booster vacuum nipple capped off! Couldn't get a bleed until uncapped it!

    Sent from my SM-J320P using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  21. DukeCity41
    Joined: Nov 12, 2015
    Posts: 23

    DukeCity41

    Great responses, (Everyone) been working on the car for a while and " i am/get/was-am/get/was" you see the pattern just frustrated. I said i corrected the brake pedal, i cut the pedal so it didn't hit the floor-but that wasn't,isn't,is my only problem. I took the MC off again and measured the stroke of my pedal 1" Bench bled the MC again, this time i measured the stroke of the MC 1-1/2". I had to cut the pedal up towards its released position because it hit the column limiting my adjustment. I will rework the pedal and start with the correct stroke and troubleshooting.
    Thanks
     
  22. jon flannery
    Joined: Nov 6, 2015
    Posts: 7

    jon flannery

    Make sure your bleeder screws are pointing up. I had them down one time and you could bleed for a week.
     
    irishsteve likes this.

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