Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical neutral safety switch

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Al Baker, Feb 14, 2015.

  1. anybody have instructions/advice for adding a neutral safety switch for a T5 manual trans, Hurst floor shifter, inline 6, 54 chevy car?
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,253

    squirrel
    Member

    never heard of one. But newer cars have a clutch pedal switch.
     
  3. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 5,681

    325w
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If the trans doesn't have a switch already in it. Use a clutch switch. A stock style brake switch hooked thru a relay will work fine. Might be fine without a relay.
     
  4. New cars are designed for a clutch safety switch, older ones aren't. Not saying it won't work, but dry-starting the motor (initial start after it's been sitting) will put pressure on the crankshaft thrust bearing when the clutch is pushed in and may cause wear problems because of a lack of oil pressure. IIRC, when these were first installed by the factories, some bearing failures were experienced, requiring a redesigned bearing....
     

  5. If I'm not mistake ,some T-5's have a NS switch provision in the top cover.. Works on a detent in one of the shift-fork slide rods...My cover wasn't drilled and threaded...but ,I recall looking at a T5 repair manual that designated thats where the NSswitch went....look on this diagram at the switch in the top cover
     

    Attached Files:

  6. It's not a NSS but more of a "neutral sensing switch" wired into the ECM so the computer know it's in neutral.
    I think it's pin 30 on the fords.

    image.jpg
     
  7. Most (if not all) late gearboxes with enclosed linkage have back-up light switches...
     
  8. This might be a question for the "Ultimate T5" thread but are the tops interchangeable?. I have a Ford trans with the sensor on the top, if I find another without the sensor would it bolt on and work and should I swap shift rail too?.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,130

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The top cover for the T5 that ended up in Ford products has a neutral safety switch in it.

    It are indeed interchangeable with the non-Ford models.

    You would re-use the shift rail from you transmission, as the shifter location is specific to the model. Probably should use your forks too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
  10. AV8R
    Joined: Feb 14, 2008
    Posts: 367

    AV8R
    Member

    I had to install one on my roadster. I put a contact switch behind the clutch pedal, so when you push the clutch down it presses the switch and closes the ignition circuit. You can't start the car in gear anymore, :) the whole fix cost $7 and would work on any vehicle with a manual. Hope this helps.
     
  11. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,038

    fortynut
    Member

    I realize, now, we are the people who create traditions. Maybe we could get Ryan to incorporate our slogan on one of the headers: Making Traditions, One Post at a time. AND, not to hijack your post but: I want to know how to put a switch for a back-up light on a '39 floorshift transmission, and wonder if I could take the blue dot out of '39 tail-lights and use either Zenon bulbs, Halogens, or several LEDs for back-up lights? Mucho sarcasm intended.
     
  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,130

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Member since 2008.

    539 posts.

    Just sayin'.
     
    hipster likes this.
  13. These are hot rods.... since when have we started making them idiot-proof?....
     
    Montana1 likes this.
  14. WZ JUNK
    Joined: Apr 20, 2001
    Posts: 1,751

    WZ JUNK
    Member
    from Neosho, MO

    If you live long enough, you will have knowledge of many accidents that involved vehicles without neutral safety switches. I try to make sure that there is one on every car I work on.

    John
     
  15. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    That's true, but I think they're a lot more important with auto trans cars.
     
  16. WZ JUNK
    Joined: Apr 20, 2001
    Posts: 1,751

    WZ JUNK
    Member
    from Neosho, MO

    Probably true but they are all important. I think we forget that the vast majority of todays drivers have no knowledge of vehicles that did not have neutral safety switches. My concern is the situation where one of these drivers is operating a vehicle without a safety switch.

    John
     
  17. Think about this way for 2 seconds.
    :
    The idiot next to you is responsible for YOUR safety.

    All of a sudden idiot proof looks a bit better no?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
    Dick Stevens likes this.
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,130

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    After putting all of the requisite blood, sweat, and tears into your ride, why risk it to an oopsie moment?
     
  19. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a neutral safety switch designed to prevent you from cranking a automatic transmission in gear? HRP
     
  20. WZ JUNK
    Joined: Apr 20, 2001
    Posts: 1,751

    WZ JUNK
    Member
    from Neosho, MO

    If it is set up to work off of a clutch pedal, it will keep a manual transmission vehicle from cranking and starting while the transmission is in gear and the clutch pedal is not depressed.

    John
     
  21. I should probably shut up.... but I'm not going to.

    Automatic transmissions should have a neutral safety switch installed; an automatic won't give any indication it's in gear until the motor starts, at which point it's too late. But how automatics became 'traditional' in rods is still beyond me; flatheads with a C4? Sheesh....

    Manual transmissions have been almost a 'given' in hot rods since the beginning (sure, automatics came into vogue in the sixties when the racers started using them, but few bragged about pulling their street-car four-speed in favor of a slush-box). And when I was taught to drive (in a manual-equipped car) the pre-start checklist included making sure the vehicle was in neutral or the clutch was depressed, but preferably the former... for safety, with the added note that it was 'easier on the motor' (the thrust-bearing issue I've brought up although that was seldom specifically mentioned).

    Move ahead some years. The safety mavens decided that manual transmissions needed this feature too. So starting sometime in the seventies, these safety switches started appearing here and there and are now found on most every manual-trans-equipped vehicle if not all. Nearly all were installed on the clutch, which given a choice is where I'd put one as it gives you more options in the event of a failure. A true 'neutral safety switch' (requiring that the trans be in neutral) less so. In the event of a clutch/clutch linkage failure, you will be unable to start the motor and put it in gear. I have driven vehicles home on two occasions where this has been the case; grind the starter in low gear until the motor starts, shift carefully without the clutch, kick it into neutral to stop, then repeat. Not the best way to do things, but it got me home. If you live somewhere with poor cel coverage and light traffic (as I do) this beats walking....

    And as far as the 'idiot proof' aspect, I'd like to think that at least among this crowd we're all mechanically savvy enough to understand this and not let somebody who does need this to drive our pride-and-joy....

    That's my story and I'm sticking with it.... LOL
     
    Montana1 likes this.
  22. 39 Ford
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,558

    39 Ford
    Member

    All BS aside, mount s switch to the clutch petal so that the petal must be engaged in order for it to work. Extend the start wire from your ignition to the switch, and the car will not start unless the petal is depressed.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  23. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    I like the idea even on a manual traditional car. I let my rug rats climb all over my cars and have to be right on top of them regardless of the keys being out of the ignition because the chance of them hitting the starter button.
     
  24. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 4,406

    rusty rocket
    Member

    My thoughts also. If you dont get in a car with a standard and not find neutral or push in the clutch you shoundnt be driving it!!
     
  25. I was going to say use a clutch switch or learn how to drive or both.

    Edit damn it:

    I have a very non traditional B&M hydro in the garage that I may use some day. :D
    Steve is correct in that most people who drove a stick called an automajic a slush box, they were not necessarily desirable to most. Also an automatic is not ever in gear technically it may have the clutches engaged though. :D I am not sure and someone else will have to answer this question but I don't think that all automatics had a neutral switch, and good driving practice for an auto is to physically make sure that it is park before you crank it. Which goes back to my first statement, learn how to drive. :D :D :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2015
  26. I have a hidden battery disconnect under the car for this purpose exactly.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  27. I don't know how to do the backup lights on your '39 but my '46 coupe had backup lights, they were hooked to a toggle switch on the dash. :D

    I got to chuckle, I see posts like *WZ Junk's and I have to ask myself, why would anyone who didn't know that the car had to be I park or neutral to be started be driving my car? I don't take it to a garage and if I did I certainly would not take it to a garage where the mechanic was not familiar with old cars. I don't loan them out and on the rare occasion that I do, I loan them to someone like us. Although I do have to admit when I took the wife's late model I for tires a month or so back I did have to explain to the guy that the clicker didn't work for the doors and that he had to use the key to unlock it. :D

    *WZ JUNK no offense intended, I have the utmost respect for you which I hope that you are already aware of. Your post is a common one when neutral switch comes up and you were just available this time. :)
     
  28. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    What's next? Brake interlock? So you have to have a foot on the brake peddle to pull the shifter out of park! Oh, never mind, that's for the slush box crowd. As others have said learn to drive. It's force of habbit. Check the stick to make sure it's out of gear. Still have to step on the clutch in my late model. Luckily I haven't had to crank myself out of an intersectio using the starter in a long time. Try to do that with a clutch "saftey" switch. -Dave.
     
  29. LOL I used to have a friend in Kansas that had a second gen Camaro that he by passed the safety switch. You wouldn't believe how much easier it was to get moving in the snow if you started it in gear and let it pull way while the engine was starting to get turning. :D :D

    That said nothing against the switch at all. doesn't make you more or less a man to have one or not have one.
     
  30. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,188

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Many years ago I transplanted an Olds 371 and 53 hydramatic into a 62 Nova. I had the neutral safety switch from the 53 Olds, so I could have wired it up and made some mechanical linkage. The story goes like this: I never did get around to putting the NS switch in, so I could start it in DR,S, and LO, as long as the brakes were applied of course. I never did try to start in R, as hydros locked the drive shaft to the case in R. Hydros also have a unique power path that has the front planetary band engaged when the engine was off, and you could turn the drive shaft with the front torus when the engine was off. With that happening and the drive shaft being locked, you probably would hurt the transmission if you did try and start in Reverse.

    This in my mind is why NS switches came about. I believe that is also why the Rolls Royce version of the hydramatic had a different way of parking the driveshaft.

    Most cases you can start in a range and the only thing that might happen is the car would move if the brakes were not applied. Now days, you have to hold the brake down just to shift out of park.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.