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Neglected-Overlooked V8s

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by F-ONE, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 893

    PackardV8
    Member

    Of course there is. All it takes is cubic money. Engines are air pumps. What works on a SBC belly button will make horsepower with an IH. It will just cost ten times as much per horsepower because every speed part has to be custom made instead of ordered from SumJegs. IH speed cost serious money. But then you'd be the worlds fastest Farmall instead of the slowest Chebby.

    jack vines
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
  2. It would have to be enough money to redesign it completely. :p Have you ever been inside one? They are very heavy in every aspect, the heads have no breathing qualities what so ever and did I mention they are Heavy. :eek:
     
  3. I worked on a few Stags back in the day and thought they were very good looking engines although I could not get around the fact they needed work constantly, I would love to hear one with all the "problems sorted out" they seem to have great potential.:cool: Just like a TR7, don't try to pull the heads without taking the studs out. ;)
     
  4. MrFire
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,801

    MrFire
    Member
    from Gold Coast

    This is an Australian Leyland P76 (top of the range) Targa Floria:

    [​IMG]

    The engine is a 4.4 litre V8.

    [​IMG]

    The engine was originally a Buick 215 (1961). It didn't do well.
    It then appeared in Rover 3.5, Rover 3500, Rover SD1 and others.
    Leyland Australia used it in 4.4 litre form, as an option, in the ill-fated P76.
     
  5. Henry Floored
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 1,370

    Henry Floored
    Member

    Oh no, with all due respect, I'm not prejudging anything. I'm simply applying the same template over "inline" type vehicles that the status quo places over vehicles with engine compartments originally designed for "vee" type engines. The Ford 300 has everything, not just some things that a hot rodder would be striving for. Like I said,large displacement, 7 main brgs, 6 intake and 6 exhaust ports, large cyl bores, compatability with modern trans, modern seals, good amount of hot rod part availability, etc. The modern Chevy 6 lacks some of these features and signed off much earlier I believe than the 300 because GM went to the Chevy and Buick v6 earlier on. The Mopar Slant 6 looks to me like it would present some fitment challenges when trying to fit them to a place where an upright flathead 6 once resided. Plus the Slant 6 is still not as available as the Ford 240- 300 engine series. No Ford 300 are not used in GM or Mopars not because they are'nt better but rather the typical GM, Mopar owner does'nt like to crossbreed his car out of blind brand loyalty. The typical early Ford owner has no such sentiments and will most often bastardize his classic with anything. Brand loyalty flies in the face of the hotrodders credo "get the largest, most powerful, and cheapest engine I can find in a boneyard that will fit in my car and drop it on in there". I'm just here to point out the obvious : )
     
  6. Greg55_99
    Joined: Mar 3, 2009
    Posts: 39

    Greg55_99

    Datsun Y40 V8 in the Nissan President.

    [​IMG]

    Greg
     
  7. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,201

    flatoz
    Member



    Jason and Bloodyknuckles, that's not my poly that's my old mans 'swifty' here on the HAMB.

    here is his new motor for the coupe he's building. I think you might like this one too.






    [​IMG]
     
  8. pcmenten
    Joined: Feb 22, 2009
    Posts: 12

    pcmenten
    Member

    I've got a few of these neglected V8's. I've got two Studebaker 224 V8's, four y-blocks, and an alloy 63 Olds V8. There's still plenty of interest in all these engines.

    I've also got an Australian Ford 302 Cleveland block and heads.
     
  9. MrFire
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,801

    MrFire
    Member
    from Gold Coast

    GMH 308 cu in V8 (It's 308 not 307 Chev):

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  10. pdq67
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 787

    pdq67
    Member

    May I add that the 215" BOP can be b&s'd out to 300"s! (Talk to Dave Ray, aka, "IMAN/Ignitionman" on the web about this!!)...

    I think that the 1st year 300" engine Buick used the 215 aluminum heads for one year back then??

    And a STRONG MAN can pack off a 215"er ready to run in his arms!

    I had both, an Olds and a Buick and the only diffence's(Sp?) back then were their topends! Olds was Olds and Buicks was Buicks sorta deal!!

    I forget if the Buick's 215"er had 10 degree heads or not?? Mighta been 14 degree's???

    And one of my two BOP 215" engines had the Olds turbo 2-barrel intake on it and the other Buick had an AFB carb on it and I still have it's intake b/c it's just so cute, I can't bring myself to scrap it!!

    To continue, the big Cad 500 should weight 625 pounds ready to run and with not much effort at all you can B&S one to at least 550"s easy/cheaply!!

    Now back at Jack V, I think the big MEL 534"er has a bore spacing of either 5.25" or maybe 5.300" so at 1100 pounds, (4.75" pistons or bigger???), one can still build one hell of a BIG engine after putting said block on an acid weight reduction diet!!

    But personally knowing basically nothing about the big Packard AND I am a fan of them, (Dad loved them is why), I would B&S the big 500" Cad.

    Jack, if you want to come clean and help ALL of us out on how you hotrod the big Packard and I'm in!!

    I've looked into this deeply and it seem's as tho for Stude to have come up with their 232" engine, one of Cad's engine design engineers may have come over to Stude and that's why the 231" Stude V-8 looks like AND can dam near mount Cad engine parts on it! This and the same deal surfaces about Rambler's early V-8 engine being dam near like it's competition because again, an engineer moved to Rambler so dam right the engines are almost identical..

    Probably the best B/S and R/S ratio'd block that we can't buy but would have to make would by a hopped up 455 Buick w/ either BB Chevy or real MOPAR hemi heads on it ONLY b/c back then GM finally got the 455 Buick right B/S/R/S ratio'd dam near RIGHT-ON -- right to be the all time STOCK 455" torque engine King and only the big GM Cad's at GM later beat it!

    I want to share that I think this so-called torque "MAGIC NUMBER" is right at 1.7 to 1 and if you look close, Buick has been in here for years as has the Ford 5.0 engine! Gutzy little Ford V-8's, imho!!

    You want high rpm HP, then look no farther than GM's little-bitty 302 Z-28 engine with a 1.9 to 1 ratio!!

    Little-bitty 302 sucker when built RIGHT will turn out at LEAST 475hp way above 7,000 rpm so it, when geared right and put in a small light car, I can take one and GO big engined car hunting in a NYT!!

    He, He!!

    And heck, a smaller say 287" SB can go above 10,000 rpm so hang on!!

    pdq67
     
  11. gwarren007
    Joined: Apr 3, 2010
    Posts: 381

    gwarren007
    Member

    I too like the 307 chevy. Rebuilt with flat top pistone and 80-85 305's heads(416 casting) and a edelbrock performer cam is a nice driver motor.

    For engines that are not used often, the buick 400 comes to mind, as well as the 368, 425, and 4.1L caddy motors.
     
  12. pdq67
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 787

    pdq67
    Member

    Fwiw, I will walk around a 305 while carrying a 307, it's that much better an engine b/c of it's 283 sized bore!

    And many guy's have said that they will bore a 307" out to 4" and make a 327"er AND I'm here to say that a hopped up 350hp hy-cammed or 375hp/327 are both engines even in this day and age to be dealt with.

    Hell, my old junk301, A real Junk Engine was a hoot up above 7,000 rpm so I know!!

    You drop this pair of engine's along w/ a hoppped up Z-28, 302 into a SMALL CAR that is geared and tired right and we BOTH will go big car hunting that have big engines in them!!

    He will buy the BEER for sure!!

    Wasn't it Grumpy that beat the Hemi's back then w/ SB's!!!!!!!!!!

    pdq67
     
  13. greensheads
    Joined: Sep 21, 2005
    Posts: 87

    greensheads
    Member

    I spent a TON of hours between my grinder and flowbench trying to make the best of a pair of 392 IH heads and intake. The intake ports arent horrible, but the exhaust and combustion chambers are a real mess. He did a good job with the engine and put it in a scout. It ran really well, but HP per $ was not good :).
     
  14. pdq67
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 787

    pdq67
    Member

    Let's get back to Jack V's Big Packard engines here because I really want to learn about them.

    And if you think I'm nut's, I would buy for $50,000 Ford's blueprints for their 12-bolt type 9" r&p sized 2-speed rearend that they made probably 7 of back in 1969!

    Suckers were road tested in like seven Merc Couger Eliminators back then AND NOT F** sold to the public by FORD!!

    Who want's to chip in???

    pdw67
     
  15. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    A few 'personal favorite' "cool" V8's that you
    don't see in rods too often.....

    320-352-374 Packarda,
    250-287-327 AMCs
    400-430-455 Buicks
    340-350 Buicks
    383-410-430-462 MELs
    278-302-317-332-341-368 Lincoln/Mercury/Ford truck Y-blocls

    Mart3406
    ===========================================
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010


  16. Ah, you're right! Perfection!




    BloodyKnuckles
     
  17. pauls fords
    Joined: Jul 7, 2009
    Posts: 183

    pauls fords
    Member

    HUH, nobody mentioned a Ford 337 flathead that came in Lincoln Cosmos with a 4 speed hydromatic on them, Have one with 52,800 original miles going into a 51 Ford vert, they also came in ford trucks and had 308 and 337 cubes, The vert is a friend of mine and is 70 years young and has owned the vert since 16, his high school hot rod,my avatar was the parts car for the vert until he gave it to me now it packs a 91 Lincoln 4.6 with AOD 9 inch posi with the lincoln disc adapted to it and clipped with the lincoln front end. Highway cruiser, hard to hold it back.
     
  18. Frankie47
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,878

    Frankie47
    Member
    from omaha ne.

    You are rght on brand loyalty.... mopar guys are the worse, but 318.225.383 are not so bad....I'm a L head 6 guy myself, no horse power but plenty of reliability, and a neat sound.
     
  19. JEM
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 1,040

    JEM
    Member

    The '96-99 Taurus SHO 3.4L V8.

    Okay, it makes no HP, and there's nothing off the shelf for it, but, hey, it's different...one half of a great trivia question:

    Name both of Ford's 60-degree DOHC V8s.

    Hint: they were building the other one in volume when Henry was still alive.

    If one really wanted to do something obscure, accepting hardware originating more than 200mi from Detroit, one could do one of the old Daimler 2.5 hemis...but my vote would go to the Merc M-100 6.3L SOHC motor from the 600 limo and 300SEL 6.3.

    Did the V8 that Lycoming did for the '30s Cords ever show up in any other application, boats, stationary/industrial applications?

    On a more practical front, something readily available in the junkyards and an absolute hell of a motor from top to bottom (but make sure to change the cam-chain guides): the Nissan VH45DE from the '90-95 Infiniti Q45.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  20. Would you run it as an EFI engine?
     
  21. Left Turn
    Joined: Nov 13, 2009
    Posts: 634

    Left Turn
    Member Emeritus
    from Omaha, NE

    3.4L ?...hmmm not "technically" a Ford motor.. more of a Yamaha/Cosworth contraption...

    was the other one the GAA?
     
  22. JEM
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 1,040

    JEM
    Member

    ...indeed, with the cam-driven water pump though I thought the various curiosities like the big dangling thermostat manifold came from Porsche engineering consulting on the Duratec, not Cosworth.

    Yes. Not exactly an overlooked V8, but also not too suitable for rod use unless you're starting with an old Packard frame or etc.
     
  23. MrFire
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,801

    MrFire
    Member
    from Gold Coast

    Another Holden motor that fits the critera - 4.2 litre (253 cu. in) V8:

    [​IMG]
     
  24. KB88
    Joined: Oct 8, 2009
    Posts: 25

    KB88
    Member

    How about the Rolls Royce 412? It's the only engine from the fifty years ago still in regular production today?
     
  25. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,693

    Weasel
    Member

    You would be correct sir. The GAA was based on a modified version of the British built Essex block - I had half a dozen of them in my racing days. They had a peculiar oiling system and the factory instructions quoted specifically: "Do not idle under 2000 rpm"!!!

    The Daimler V8 hemi comes in two sizes: 2.5 L and 4.5 L. They look similar but no parts interchange.

    Cosworth GAA:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Daimler 4.5L hemi:

    [​IMG]
     
  26. MrFire
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,801

    MrFire
    Member
    from Gold Coast

  27. Hyway Hauler
    Joined: Aug 31, 2009
    Posts: 670

    Hyway Hauler
    Member

    I agree with everything the poster has listed, except for the truck 427. This block was infact the same casting as the musclecars had, it was just camed differently, and had really shitty heads.
     
  28. MrFire
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,801

    MrFire
    Member
    from Gold Coast

    The TATRA V8:

    [​IMG]
     
  29. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,180

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    I have a few that are honorably mentioned:

    421 SOHC v8 Pontiac
    406 FE ford
    383 Chrysler RB (raised B block) 1959-1960
    413 Chrysler B block
    426 Chrysler Wedge
    301 Chrysler Poly
    Dodge red rams
    1955 Cadillac V8 (no extended bell housing, turbulent wedge head design)
    Edsel V8's
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
  30. outlaw256
    Joined: Jun 26, 2008
    Posts: 2,023

    outlaw256
    Member

    hwy hauler, 427 trk blocks are mnot the same as the 427 automotive blocks. i dont have the specs in front of me right now but there is alot of differences that make the trk engine unsuitable for hotrod use.
     

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