Register now to get rid of these ads!

Hot Rods NEEDED: 351w basic info

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Beep, Feb 28, 2015.

  1. I need to talk someone who is a Ford 351w whiz kid. I know the engine blocks were basically the same from 68 to 70, but then in 71 they went to a taller deck by .20 and I understand the camshaft changed slightly on the timing chain end also.

    I have three questions:
    1) Are all the hydraulic lifters the same. If the block has a .20 taller deck, shouldn't the action of the lifters change also? Should they require being .20 taller?
    2) What is the difference in the camshaft end play plates. I know there are two. Will either work in either block?
    3) I have been told that there is a spacer plate where the flywheel bolts to the crankshaft on some and not on others. If not correct, you will get interference between the fly wheel and the block. Can you explain this?

    If it is easier, contact me at BPerrenot@hotmail.com

    Thanks
     
  2. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    The deck height issue is pushrods. You just need the correct pushrods. Best bet is to use a pushrod checker to determine what length you need.
    "The length has everything to do with the rocker geometry. Take a magic marker, paint the top of a vavle stem, then bolt on the rocker, adjust as necessary, then cycle the valve train thru a full revolution. Remove the rocker then note where the rocker contact lands on the top of the valve stem. It should be as close to the center as possible.
    Ideally you want the rocker at a height where it is slightly below perpendicular to the valve stem when the valve is closed, and so that it moves through an arc that produces minimal inboard/outboard movement on the valve stem. Use the marker on the valve stem to visually indicate how much the rocker tip moves.. ideally you want to see a narrow line in the center of the valve stem."
    According to the parts you have it is also possible to shim the rocker pedestals if the pushrods are to long. This is what I did on a 460 to get the correct rocker geometry.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015
  3. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    [​IMG]


    Camshaft Retainer Plate, 302-351W. Production replacement for 302 and 351W engines. For use with flat tappet and hydraulic roller camshafts. Designed for timing chain sets requiring .250" thick retainer plate. Not for use with steel cam gears.

    • Price: $15.99
    • Brand: Ford Racing Parts
    • Product ID: M-6269-A302
    Ford Motorsports says 1964-1995
     
  4. So are you saying that the two different deck height engines had different length push rods? If that is so, then that could be where my hydraulic lifter tapping is coming from. I cannot adjust them as you know. Thanks, I will check this out.
     

  5. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 2,352

    Beanscoot
    Member

    The deck height difference is only .020", not .20" (early block 9.480" vs. later block 9.500"), which is within the range of the action of the hydraulic lifters.
    From the beginning of production in 1969 to 1993 use the same lifters. Late 93 to the end in 1997 use the hydraulic rollers.

    There is no spacer plate between the flywheel and crankshaft flange. Perhaps someone was thinking of the spacer ring which is used under the bolt heads attaching a flexplate.
     
  6. 65COMET
    Joined: Apr 10, 2007
    Posts: 3,086

    65COMET
    Member

    I have been building 351Ws for many years,started with a 69 block,all the way to 90s truck blocks.Not all 94 up engines used factory roller cams,in fact I have never had one!The difference in deck height is not an issue,all aftermarket intakes fit both deck heights.the difference is so small it is not worth worry,besides,most blocks get decked during machining!I have used the same lifters no matter the year of the block.You will need to check pushrod length if you go to aftermarket heads with adjustable valve trains.The flwheel ring is called a reinfocing ring,you can get away without it,just check the length of your flexplate bolts,some stick flywheels use a longer bolt that can hit the block! ROY.
     
  7. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,519

    George
    Member

    Not something you asked, but...69-77 uses 351W heads, after that they use 302 heads with bigger head bolt holes for the 351 size head bolts Intakes for early 351s have more intake bolts than the later heads, intakes have to match the number of bolts in the heads.
     
  8. Thanks guys. I got all the info I needed. My Block is a D4A so I assume it is a 1974. Not sure of the heads, but they have the bolt and stand rocker arms, not the stud ones like a sbc. They are not adjustable. OK, thanks a million George and 65Comet
     
  9. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,519

    George
    Member

    Yup! That's the way they come!
     
  10. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,519

    George
    Member

    " Not sure of the heads" Look in a catalog @ intakes, on 351W with 351W heads the intakes have same number of intake bolts as 351C, post '77 same as the 302.
     
  11. OK, another question. I have 2 sets of heads. Both ready to bolt on.
    1) D0OE
    2) E7OE

    What is the CC of each type? I know both have the same valve size, but what is the CC? With dish top pistons, what would be the compression ratio of each?
    With flattop pistons what would be the compression ration of each?

    Thanks
     
  12. Use the D0OE heads; these are the second-best early small Ford head (after the C9 4V ones) with good ports. Flat-top pistons should get you around 9-1 compression or a bit more. Grind out the thermactor 'bump' in the exhaust port, gasket-match/blend the top and sides of the exhaust port and there you go....
     
  13. You should start with the correct length pushrod that is easy just call Summit racing and ask them the correct length for your particular motor, have one in hand to check and if it is the wrong length order a set. Done deal no guessing.

    As for adjustment yes you can adjust them, it is done with shims. No you don't want to mess with it, either spend the bucks on adjustable valve train 9 something I would probably do myself) or live with the pecking and lost performance from your valve train not being properly adjusted. if your not racing then the lack of adjustment probably won't hurt you much.


    Oh I am not a Windsor wiz kid just a beat up old mechanic.
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  14. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 2,352

    Beanscoot
    Member

    The 1969 and 1970 351W engines were offered in 2V and 4V versions, the former using dished pistons giving about 9:1 C.R., the latter had flat top pistons producing 10.4:1, using the same heads.
    There were no separate 2V and 4V heads, all engines got the same ones, C9OE in 1969 and D0OE heads in 1970. The heads were identical other than casting numbers. They have an advertised combustion chamber volume of 60.4cc.

    These heads had bigger valves than the later (1978 and up) heads.
     
  15. Maybe in Canada; a 4V 351W was only offered one year in the states ('69), although marine versions turned up later. If you ordered a 351 in '70, if it was a 2V it could be either a W or a Cleveland, if you ordered a 4V it was a Cleveland. There was some minor difference between '69 and '70 heads that made the early one 'desirable' although I don't recall what it was...
     
  16. p51mustang
    Joined: Sep 2, 2009
    Posts: 84

    p51mustang
    Member

    Are you running factory hydraulic roller lifters or link bar aftermarket lifters ?
    If you are running factory roller lifters you must use a reduced base circle cam.

    Deck height difference can be adjusted with pushrod length. Get or make a pushrod length checker and verify proper length.

    Cam shaft thrust plate are the same. Only difference is if you are running a fuel pump eccentric off cam.

    There isn't a plate that goes between flywheel and block. There is a block plate that goes between engine and transmission or bell housing. There are different sizes depending on whether you have smaller 157tooth or larger 164tooth flywheel.
     
  17. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 2,352

    Beanscoot
    Member

    I checked into what Steve said about the 351W-4V only available in 1969, and he is right, my information came from a source that included 1970 Shelby Mustangs that seem to have been leftover 1969 models anyway.
    Oh, and I double checked the factory advertised compression ratios, they are actually 9.5 (2V) and 10.7 (4V).
     
  18. I know a port guy that says he prefers to work with the earlier heads, I am digging in my brain and as I recall he said that they had more meat top grind on.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.