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Technical Need some opinions/advice - 383 chrysler build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Barsteel, May 17, 2016.

  1. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    440 is a bolt-in. Only thing to watch out for is the later cast crank motors need an externally balanced converter or flex-plate.
     
  2. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,515

    73RR
    Member

    ...and on the street they are quite often a lot cheaper...but no less a performer......

    .
     
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  3. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Really, I am spoiled, I started hoarding early steel crank 440 cores in the late seventies, but there is nothing wrong at all with the later cast crank motors. The rods and the main webs cause trouble long before the cranks give up in these motors, so the whole steel/cast crank thing is a moot point.
     
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  4. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,515

    73RR
    Member

    ...we probably shouldn't let the cast 'secret' out.....it will drive up the prices.....

    .
     
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  5. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,267

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    George and 73RR
    Not up on Mother Mopar stuff, so I have a question.
    First off these are long gone.
    Friend of mine worked in the local Chrysler parts dist center for many years, he was always bringing home "overstocks". One time I'm in his secret storage loft with him and I spy these boxes of new crankshafts, at least a dozen of them, he said they were Chrysler 400's. He passed away some years back and had probably known he was pretty sick so ended up with a big batch of stuff going to the scrapper.
    What do you suppose they would be worth nowadays?
    Were these cast or forged? Passenger car, truck?
     
  6. brad2v
    Joined: Jun 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,648

    brad2v
    Member

    400's were all cast, car and truck are the same. As to value? I dunno, couple hundred each?
     
  7. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Cast, passenger car. Even some of the late 2v 383's had externally balanced cast cranks. I'd still build a 400 in a heartbeat.

    Oops, Brad was posting while i was typing...:p
     
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  8. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,515

    73RR
    Member

    ...not true....and I'm sure some will disagree with me on this......
    There are/were plenty of forged crank 400 as well as 440 well into 1973. Forged crank 318 were still found in 1979. My 1973 RoadRunner, 400-4spd. is an example. Were they only used, perhaps, with manual trans? Possible. I also have a complete 73 350-hp440 out of a NY and, of course, it is cast, so who knows what the guys on the line were told to use.
    In my experience, post-71 forged cranks may have been some of those 'overstocks' mentioned. Seems that MaMopar used some inventory until it was gone.

    .
     
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  9. acpat
    Joined: May 10, 2016
    Posts: 12

    acpat

    400 is low deck with shorter cylinders/thicker main webs (less flex.) anything a 440 can be built into a 400 can be built into and be a better motor. To the OP. Pop the motor apart and check the taper in the cylinders. If it has less than 10 thousands taper, hone with new rings, cam bearings and main/rod bearings, 484 - 509 ish cam. ductile iron rockers, TM6 single plane and 750 double pumper. All stock mopar valves are two piece so keep spring pressures reasonable. bowl port/gasket match a set of 452, 906, 516, 915 it don't make squat difference. you got the mothership of a car (heavy) heavy and 4 speeds are a bad combo. 8.75 if not a powr-lok is going to grenade 1st, second will the clutch maybe the powr-lok, followed by the 4 speed if it has not been rebuilt recently. i.e. countershaft pin is wore to hell endplay is huge. get that stroker motor crap out of your nugget. combo I posted will get you into the high 12's if you can tune and shift that cow truck shifter.
     
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  10. acpat
    Joined: May 10, 2016
    Posts: 12

    acpat

    mopar 4 speed is only good to about 500ft lb of torque. After that they start blowing up third gear. high torque stroker motors and 23 spline 4 speeds are a bad mix. stroker motors and 8.75 rear ends are also bad mix. stroker motors and trunnion drive shaft is bad mix. I personally love 383/400's. cause unlike the 440 you can park them nose 1st against a barn in july and they won't overheat. Don't know why but 440's always seem to run hot. get a set of steel shift forks no matter what you do. The brass ones break and run between the gears splitting the case like a melon.
     
  11. brad2v
    Joined: Jun 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,648

    brad2v
    Member

     
  12. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I had heard that there were steel crank 400's but I have never seen one...But I have learned a long time ago, when it comes to Mother, never say never...
    The steel 318-3 cranks are famous.
     
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  13. The RB has a raised deck which makes it a little taller and wider than the low deck motor. It is as close to a bolt in as you will find. The biggest concern is usually exhaust and sometimes it bolts right up. It is a crap shoot. But nothing that is going to be like brain surgery.
     
  14. I think that the GTX came both ways. I am not sure why I think that, and obviously I could be wrong. never the less I think tat it came both ways.
     
  15. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    GTX's were 440 or hemi only, no 383's.
     
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  16. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,515

    73RR
    Member

    I am a bit surprised (and pleased) at how much interest has been generated by this B&RB thread.
    Thanks Barsteel for asking the question.
    Seems that these engines don't get as much recognition as they might deserve.

    .
     
  17. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,438

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I like mine (383)
    And had some 440s then sold them and saved 1 400 for when I win the Loto
     
  18. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I still have one 383, and a passel of 440's. I got into 440s in the late seventies because BB chevy cores were bloody expensive around here, and you could reverse the pistons, port the heads, and stick a big hyd. cam in them, and with a torker, tarantula or Street Dominator with an 850 on top, you had a cheap 500HP. You didnt even need to change the rockers. It cost a LOT more to build a 500hp sbc.
    in the eighties, I had a Duster with 4.30s and a 10" converter, 28x11 Firestone Drag 500's and a 440 six pack hood, pulled a low mileage 440 out of a New Yorker, ball-honed it, reversed the stock pistons on the rods, milled .070 off a set of 906's :)eek::rolleyes:) did the pockets, dropped and widened the approach to the short side and laid it back a bit, 2.14's and 1.81s, stock rockers with street hemi springs and a Comp 308H, Torker and a 950 3bbl, it went 11.0s @ 120 mph.
    Still have everything except the Duster itself, and I have a '66 Sattelite. I will probably put that mess back together one of these days, but with forged flat-tops, adjustable rockers, a DC Mini-Express, tight 8", and a tunnel ram.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2016
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  19. Barsteel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2008
    Posts: 726

    Barsteel
    Member
    from Monroe, CT

    Starting to look at 440s...

    Excuse my ignorance, but can I assume that the crank has the relief for the pilot bearing for my 4 speed? I can't imagine that Chrysler would make 2 separate cranks, but I wanted to ask. I found a motor out of a 70 Imperial, want to make sure it will work. Chryslers are all new to me.

    Thanks...

    Chris
     
  20. brad2v
    Joined: Jun 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,648

    brad2v
    Member

    It might, it might not. But in any case, roll on down to your local Chryco dealer, and ask for PN 53009180AB, it's a bearing (as opposed to the stock bushing) that fits in the torque convertor register. You may have to cut a 1/2" or so off the end of the trans input shaft.
     
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  21. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    '70 is a nice core, steel crank and 346 heads.
     
  22. Like 'beaner says, the added height and width of the RB can make things tight in some engine compartments. I stuffed a 440 in my '67 Barracuda years ago and made the exhaust work with some spacers between the outlets and the head pipes. Also there was a difference between the engine mount locations between the '67 383 and the '70 440 that took a little messing with to make work. Damn, that was a long time ago...
     
  23. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    We used to install 383's and 440's in A-bodies without switching out the 6 cylinder K-members. We would cut the welds out of the stands off the B motor k-member in the donor car, then cut the stands off the 6-cylinder K-member in the car the motor was going into. Then we would bolt the engine mounts onto the big block, and bolt the stands from the donor car onto the mounts. Then we would lower the motor into the a body engine bay until the stands were sitting on the 6 cylinder K-member, and weld the b motor stands to the 6 cylinder K-member, and finish it off with the Hooker fenderwell headers. But yes, the 440's really fill up an A-body engine compartment.
     
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  24. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,535

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    I might point out this motor is going in a 65 Fury. There won't be a clearance issue unless he adds a tunnel ram, or a blower, a 440 with a single 4 barrel carb will fit just fine.

    The factory 69-71 exhaust manifolds will work nicely (before 69 are quite restrictive, but with dual exhaust, they will work too), or a set of headers.

    That 70 Imperial 440 will be a great starting point. Be sure the motor is healthy, add the bearing in place of the clutch bushing, cut the end off the trans if you need to, and get r done! It will make your 65 Fury a fun ride. Gene
     
  25. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Gary, just wondering, do you have a Tarantula TM-7 you want to part with?
     
  26. Barsteel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2008
    Posts: 726

    Barsteel
    Member
    from Monroe, CT

    Ok, took a few hours yesterday to go see a complete, built, running 440 that was still in the car. Owner says that it was a low mileage (50K) 440 out of a 70 Imerpial or NY. The motor is freshly built with about 100 mi on it, and it's sitting in a 67 GTX. The block and crank are still standard size because he said that the motor was very well cared for and everything was at the very low end of spec. Motor has a Hughes Cam, Performer RPM manifold, a custom built Holley 800, headers, chrome box Chrysler electronic ignition, and 906 heads. The motor is very nicely set up, and no corners appear to have been cut. He's got most of the receipts for the work. It started with one flick of the key, has a nice lopey idle, no smoke, ticks, knocks, or funny noises. He took me for a ride. From a slow rolling start, it broke both rear tires loose, snapped my head back and pushed me about 4" into the seat. It ran at a steady 175 degrees the whole time. The car had a manual valve body automatic and 4.10 gears in the rear, so I wouldn't expect it to do the same in my car, but the motor appeared to be very well built and it ran like a scalded cat.

    His price for the entire motor is less than the cost of about half of the parts for a stroker 383, forget any machine work. I cannot think of a reason not to pull the trigger on this one.

    My main concern is my earlier mentioned issue with the crank being drilled for a pilot bearing. If it isn't, will the bearing that Brad2V mentioned solve my problem? I do NOT want to buy a motor only to have to tear apart the lower end just the have the back of the crank drilled, and I sure as hell don't want to lose the 4spd.

    Has anyone dealt with installing a manual tranny in a car that did not have the crank drilled for a pilot bearing?

    Thanks...

    Chris
     
  27. Barsteel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2008
    Posts: 726

    Barsteel
    Member
    from Monroe, CT

    For anyone who cares, here are some pics of the car.

    It's got a freshly rebuilt A833 4spd (with receipt), and the rear end doesn't make any funny noises or have any leaks, so I can only assume it's in good shape. The car has a 95% rust free AZ body, and it's very clean underneath. I bought it how you see it. The PO completely stripped it, painted it, dressed up the (shot) motor, did brakes, lines, and a ton of small stuff. When I got it, someone had slapped a new interior in it, but the windows were falling out of their channels, channel flocking was shot, window regulators were super stiff, there was no interior chrome installed, there were no fuzzies, no headliner, no windlace, half of the exterior chrome was in the trunk, and none of the gauges or interior lights worked. All that is fixed now.

    All it needs is a motor...

    Chris
     

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  28. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    NICE^^ buddy of mine had one of those when we were teenagers, nice car.
     
  29. brad2v
    Joined: Jun 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,648

    brad2v
    Member

    So, when you get the bearing, you're getting this upload_2016-5-24_8-40-45.jpeg , and it fits in the register in the crank where the snout of the convertor would go. The stock setup used this[​IMG]which pressed in the crank ahead of the convertor register [​IMG]. Pretty good chance that Imperial motor will just have a depression where the bushing goes, so likely you'll have to do some surgery on the trans input shaft. That is a great looking car by the way
     
  30. One should say that is you are going to turn the pistons around one is better off using forged pistons, the cast pistons don't like it as well. It may also be worthy of mention that with panther piss instead of gasoline these days that a bunch of compression can be your enemy. You want to keep your quench tight and your lobes close together. 108 as George has suggested earlier is a good number on Lobe separation.

    The open chamber heads are a little on the lazy side too, close chamber heads are your best bet if you can find them. The 110-112 that most people do on an SBC is totally out the door, they make 'em that way but they do not work well on the big MOPAR.

    The tall deck motor should go fine in the big ol engine bay that a Fury has. it is not as large as a New Yorker but it should fit easy enough. And unlike the Barracudas of our era the head pipes should have plenty of room to pull up into place. Now there is something worth trying a B or RB in a valiant Barracuda. I know that someone has done it, but it would still be fun to try. ;)
     

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