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Need some legal advice

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by willysgasser40, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. willysgasser40
    Joined: Jan 5, 2008
    Posts: 153

    willysgasser40
    Member
    from Illinois

    I bought a 1961 MGA from an out of state car dealer I just checked & the vin tag is removed !
    The dealer has not mailed me the the paper work yet there is no title it is from a Connecticut dealer (us). Section 14-166 of the Connecticut General Statutes reads 'the acquisition of a Connecticut certificate title is not required for any vehicle manufactured prior to 1981.
    I got the car on Saturday the dealership was closed when it arrived . Is there any way I can go after this dealer or am I screwed ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
  2. Z=ke
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 12

    Z=ke
    Member
    from Long Beach

    I just came on this forum a few minutes ago, but I'm no stranger to auto forums (27,000 posts on one). You may want to contact a state attorney general. That will be the cheapest call you make.

    Some states don't "title" older cars, but they do have registration showing the VIN.
     
  3. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,765

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You would be a long way from the first person who bought a rusted out hulk from an uncrupulous seller and paid the price for something that should have been in decent shape.
    I'd say that Z=ke gave pretty decent advice outside of lawyering up with one that can play hardball.
     
  4. davidbistolas
    Joined: May 21, 2010
    Posts: 962

    davidbistolas
    Member

    Just wondering... Would you ask your lawyer for free car advice?

    You need a lawyer - and any advice you get here is strictly hearsay and conjecture. You might have a case (as it's misrepresented) but you'll need a lawyer to guide you through the process.
     

  5. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    Hire a lawyer instead of taking legal advice from some rube like me on a message board..
     
  6. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,455

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    The VIN tag is removed? I'm no lawyer, but I don't think it's legal to sell a car without a VIN id on the car. I would trailer it back to the dealer and demand a refund, in person.
     
  7. willysgasser40
    Joined: Jan 5, 2008
    Posts: 153

    willysgasser40
    Member
    from Illinois

    Is it legal for the dealer so send a car without it having the V.I.N tag ?
     
  8. bobj49f2
    Joined: Jun 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,841

    bobj49f2
    Member

    Maybe use the typical HAMB advice, load up your car with all your friends, guns and baseball bats and make a cross country visit to the seller.

    I wouldn't do it but that seems what half of the advise seems to be every time someone posts that they got screwed on something. I would strongly do as the others suggested and get a liar, I mean a lawyer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  9. Sorry to brag, but I am not an attorney.
     
  10. carmuts
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 874

    carmuts
    Member

    You are correct there, atleast in most states. Contact the state attorneys office in the state you bought it from as well as the state you live in. Remember possession is 9/10th's of the law so choose your wording carefully and be prepared to offer all proof you have that you bought this car from this person. E-mail's are good, telephone calls are abit harder to prove as to what was said or implied or agreed on. Cancellled checks or proof of a monitary transaction are also good things to have at the ready. Since the car is in your possession without a VIN make sure you can clear yourself of any wrong doing. Chances are the car will be siezed and impounded at some point until this is cleared up. I have never been in your situation before, but know of afew simulare cases, some with good outcomes and some with not so good outcomes. Rod
     
  11. falconwagon62
    Joined: Mar 17, 2006
    Posts: 1,432

    falconwagon62
    Member

    I own a used car lot in ohio, turn it over to the AG in your state...rules about VIN numbers and false claims....BIG trouble for him......
     
  12. roughneck424
    Joined: Jan 10, 2009
    Posts: 1,084

    roughneck424
    Member

  13. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,580

    ems customer service
    Member

    most state dmv's have a proceedure for when a dealer sells a car with out a title and can not produce one, go there first
     
  14. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 27,211

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    so, no paper work to prove that you paid for it or that seller owned it?
    this is another example of always going to see a car before you buy.
     
  15. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,920

    Clik
    Member

    Last I knew Dealer/Stealers in my State had to be licensed through the Motor Vehicle Administration.

    My old boss had a rust bucket Lemans. A local dealer advertised a high trade in for any car, regardless of condition, that could be driven into the lot. My boss jump started the old car and drove it to the lot steaming, smoking and with the transmission slipping.

    After doing the deal on the new car, the dealer was supposed to mail a check for the trade in but reneged because he got a trade in that was only worth scrap price.

    My boss reminded him of the advertisement but the dealer didn't think the ad should have been taken seriously and tried to say it was just humor. The dealer/stealer refused to issue the check.

    My boss called the MVA and next thing he knew the Stealer was offering to settle for even more money if my boss would withdraw the complaint.

    Moral of the story: Go to whomever holds their license.
     
  16. as above a liscensed dealer is gonna be in trouble
     
  17. willysgasser40
    Joined: Jan 5, 2008
    Posts: 153

    willysgasser40
    Member
    from Illinois

    I have a hard copy of the add & the website listing .I have photo copys of the money orders & the letters that I sent with the checks . If or when the paper work arrives I am not going open the letter if he put the tag is in with sales slips to have proof it was shipped illegally .
     
  18. cmyhtrod
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 360

    cmyhtrod
    Member
    from ct

    Is he from Bridgeport?

    Although it may be unethical, I think you should tell us who the dealer is so that we can avoid him like the plague.
     
  19. willysgasser40
    Joined: Jan 5, 2008
    Posts: 153

    willysgasser40
    Member
    from Illinois

    It is a English Car dealer not a traditional Hot Rod Dealer !
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  20. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    In most States, the dealer has to have a vin number. If the tag is gone, the State usually has a way to check and issue a State vin tag.

    I work in a shredder facility and you can't even scrap a vehicle these days without a vin number.
     
  21. davidbistolas
    Joined: May 21, 2010
    Posts: 962

    davidbistolas
    Member

    Actually, the expression is Possession is 9 points of law, and it doesn't mean what you think it does.

     
  22. High5
    Joined: Jul 2, 2012
    Posts: 185

    High5
    Member

    Did you use a commercial carrier to haul it? No vin tag, and they won't touch it.

    Before getting others involved, contact this dealer ASAP and explain your side of the story. He's been in business since 1974. You would think others have bought and been disappointed. Read the contract and see if there is any sort of return policy in place. If he refuses to work with you, then contact the AG and see what they can do.

    Hope you can work this out.
     
  23. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,159

    Truckedup
    Member

    I bought a newer OT vehicle from a large out of state dealer.The vehicle was as advertised,the problem was no title. Calling the dealer got me a shit load of excuses.After about a week of that I called that state's Attorney General.Filled out an online form and emailed to them.Within two days I got a call from an assistant AG. He got on the dealer,the dealer gave him the same shit he gave me.The Attorney General threatened to pull the dealer's license....Title was delivered to me by Overnight express.
    This was my experience,yours may differ.............
     
  24. sololobo
    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
    Posts: 8,220

    sololobo
    Member

    sorry, our legal department is closed on Sundays. I guess a lot of other legal experts are open to Sunday work tasks. I hope the professional advice rendered here may be sufficient. We are not contemplating Sunday open for counsel any time soon. Dewey-Cheatum & Howe
     
  25. hobbyjp
    Joined: Mar 14, 2006
    Posts: 330

    hobbyjp
    Member
    from socal

    Alot of advice that has been posted deals more with criminal law, If you contact the states attorney I'm sure they would take action but their least worry is getting you your money back. If the dealer is a legit dealer (doesn't really matter if he is or is not, he still may be considered a merchant) than your item falls under the Uniform Commercial Code of merchantability, meaning if your item has defects that a normal buyer would not easily notice but the seller knew existed, than the seller is responsible. Something that could be a road block for you is all contracts over 500 dollars are suppose to be in writing(a soon as you agreed to buy the car a contract was formed), what might save you is the seller is a merchant you are not. regardless if he is licensed or not. now any recourse you have is thrown out the window if at any time you signed something that said what you bought was "AS IS" or you payed an amount that was well below market value(showing that you knew the car had problems). Small claims court is the cheapest way to get your money back as long as the value is under 10 grand, your state may be different. Civil law and criminal law are two different animals, if you want the guy to go to jail call johnny law if your looking for money damages file suite. you can find more information if you research contract law and merchantability and the UCC, there are other areas this falls into also. Good luck and maybe contacting the seller armed with some more knowledge and asking for some of your money back to make the deal proper may be your quickest fix.

    "IM AM NOT AN ATTORNEY, AND THE ABOVE SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN AS LEGAL ADVICE, YOU SHOULD DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS"
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  26. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Removed VIN tag....... I do believe that is very illegal.....in all 50 States ! I'd be handing this to your state att'y. gen. and dmv, as suggested above.

    4TTRUK
     
  27. hobbyjp
    Joined: Mar 14, 2006
    Posts: 330

    hobbyjp
    Member
    from socal

    Yes the vin tag being removed is illegal, How many model As have you bought that didnt have a vin tag, If you have a pre 55 car in california most likely it is registered by the engine, If you remove that without the paper work also illegal, how many pre war cars have you seen at shows with after market frames. I'll put money down that almost all those cars do not have the proper paper work. Missing VIN numbers is way more of a bigger deal when its a newer car I dont think anyones head is gonna spin around on an unrestored car thats 70+ years old. Also most all cars ever made have multiple vin locations so are all of them gone or just a aluminum tag missing that could have fell off at any time. Makes a big difference. I will admit that I have also thought a tag was missing when on one vehicle I was looking in the wrong place for a vin tag.
     
  28. Marcel8u
    Joined: Nov 21, 2012
    Posts: 62

    Marcel8u
    Member

    As my Dad would say "Should have bought a Chevy". Anyway I hope you get this resolved soon none of us like to be taking advantage of. Good luck and will be checking this tread for updates.
     
  29. henry29
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,835

    henry29
    Member

    All of the 61 mga's on there website have the ID plates visible in the pics. Is the one you bought not on their site?
     
  30. henry29
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,835

    henry29
    Member

    looks like they took that pic just right so you can't see it missing,

    Do they have the numbers stamped on the frame anywhere?
     

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