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Need some help on a "Banger" Please

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Driveway builder, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    I made a trade today for this old "Banger" roller. I know nothing about it other than I wanted it. :) Its not locked up, and have all the parts off of it, also it has juice brakes. I took some pics... It has a fuel pump, never saw one like it. Also it has two ford 94 carbs. Can I try to get it running without pulling it all apart or will those carbs have no chance running without a rebuild. Any advice would be great. thanks
    [​IMG]
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  2. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    I'd squirt a little oil (mystery oil or Kroil) in the cylinders, turn it over by hand, gas it up and give it a try.
     
  3. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    better pic of the setup[​IMG]
     
  4. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    Anyone ever see a fuel pump like this? [​IMG]
     

  5. wood470
    Joined: May 21, 2008
    Posts: 226

    wood470
    Member

    I had a fuel pump like that on an old 40 ford woodie. It worked fine for years but was really noisy
     
  6. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,038

    fortynut
    Member

    My two cents worth: any engine you don't know about, dismantle and check it out. A lot of damage can be done trying to get it running without knowing the condition. A lot of folks screw engines up pouring in gas and turning it over. All you'll be out taking it apart, if it's not trash, will be gaskets.
     
  7. peter schmidt
    Joined: Aug 26, 2007
    Posts: 657

    peter schmidt
    Member
    from maryland

    damn i would love this stuff for my coupe any chance you can show the pedal/ master cylinder set up for the hydrolic brakes? if you ever decide to part with any of it let me know i could use it all under my coupster body and steal the intake for my coupe. nice find.
     
  8. If you were building a '50s/60s rod that fuel pump would be period correct, they were listed in just about any catalog we saw back then. I picked up a '37 21 stud a couple weeks ago and one of those was mounted to the vent stand and plumbed to the carb. Used to be very common.
     

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  9. john-e-yuma
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 21

    john-e-yuma
    Member
    from Sacramento

    I would check compression in each cylinder first. No point in wasting a bunch of time if you have a stuck valve or bad rings. Then proceed as normal with spark and fuel.
     
  10. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    How do I check to see if the fuel pump works? Just ground it and tap a hot line to the lug to see if it makes noise, of do you have to have gas in it? Maybe I could see if it sucks water out of a bucket or some thing... or is that a dumb idea?
     
  11. Clayton (MrModelT) runs an autopulse fule pump like that.
     
  12. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    one more dumb question... I just ordered a gasket set for the motor, but wanted a rebuild kit for the carbs. After looking at them they have different model #'s... the one in the front is a #91-99 and the rear one is a #95... both are Ford 94's though. Does this mean anything? Or doesn't matter?
     
  13. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    It's a FUEL pump, don't run water through it... but you can gravity feed the carbs...

    WOOD470 says the pump is noisy, I have a modern Carter P4070 real loud does that make it traditional?
     
  14. Halfdone
    Joined: Feb 27, 2005
    Posts: 237

    Halfdone
    Member

    He can certainly do that to test fire the engine

    But in a completed rod with an A body running an original tank, he won't have enough height difference between the fuel outlet and inlet to get enough pressure to reliably run 94's on a downdraft manifold

    With original updrafts there is about a 10" height difference, which easily pulls the 1.5 PSI needed

    With a twin carb manifold and twin 94/97 you barely have an inch on a 28/29, and maybe 2" on a 30/31

    Fortunately you only need 2PSI, but many twin cab bangers run heaps better when you fit a pump and regulator

    Lots of the tunning issues blamed on 97's being "too big" are actually eratic fuel pressure under load

    + Even a banger powered rod can get enough acceleration to create fuel surges
     
  15. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    Yea I know... I was just going to run water to see if it would pump it out of a cup, than blow it out with an air hose. I guess if it makes noise it will work, though. :confused:
     
  16. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    Thanks, and no pics... the master cylinder and pedal are gone. I don't think I want to part with it... I wanted a set up like this for a while now for my roadster in my avatar pic. If I change my mind I will let you know.:)
     
  17. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    Thanks for the info... how about the carbs being different model #'s ? Does that matter? I want to order rebuild kits and wonder if there is a difference? thanks
     
  18. blyndgesser
    Joined: Jan 2, 2011
    Posts: 167

    blyndgesser
    Member
    from Georgia

    Looks like fun.
     
  19. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,448

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    If you want to test the pump use diesel fuel . Less flamable than gas, and has some lubricating qualities.

    Do not use water. If you just want to know if it works you can run it dry for a few seconds but squirt some oil in the inlet first.
     
  20. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    thanks, good idea... will do
     
  21. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    Does any one know if different part #'s on a ford 94 carb matter when ordering a rebuild kit? Or are they all the same...
     
  22. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    Bump, for the night crowd... any one know about the 94s???
     
  23. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,669

    MrModelT
    Member

    I think the kits are pretty generalized for all types...early and late 94's and the 2100. The kits have all the gaskets/parts for all types, so you should be covered. I have rebuilt a quite a few of different vintages and never had an issue.

    as for the Fuel pump....i think running diesel through it to test it is a viable plan. Before that however, I would take a look at the inside.

    Have you had the cover off? Does it have the early style copper bellows or the later style rubber type?

    If they have the copper style, you should be okay. The rubber style will be rotted and disintegrate as soon as you touch or put power to it. Neither are available as replacements, but the copper ones last.

    Here is some info on them...

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=793438&highlight=autopulse+fuel+pump
     
  24. There is a Holley 94 social group here. Maybe they know the differences in #'s
     
  25. petew
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 214

    petew
    Member
    from Mebane, NC

    Speedway should have everything that you might need for those carbs.
    Whatever you run for a fuel pump 3psi will be about max for those carbs or they will leak like crazy. Speedway used to sell a square low pressure pump which is what I use, no regulator needed.
    The banger as you probably know is splash and gravity oiled. The oil pump sends the oil up to the valve chamber then it gravity feeds down to the mains and fills the dipper tray so that the rods can pick up oil for the rod bearings, so.... Since I imagine you will change the oil prior to trying to start it pull the distributor and pour your first quart in there. That will fill the valve chamber and oil will migrate down into the dipper tray and you will avoid a dry start.
    On my banger I put shut off valves (1/4" from the lawn mower shop ) in the lines to the carbs (97's) which I keep closed when not driving also allows you to turn off a carb if you get a stuck needle and seat and keep driving.
    You have some nice parts there.

    Pete
     
  26. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    Its looking very promising... it is the older one with the copper style. Its model #500. And I couldn't believe how clean it was inside. The gasket feels soft, too. :)
     
  27. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    [​IMG]looks like a good sign... hopefully it still works!
     
  28. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    By the way... this is what I got
    [​IMG]
    and this is what I'm going for...
    [​IMG]
    nothing crazy... just a simple stripped down salt flat car. That the plan anyway. :)
     
  29. Fred A
    Joined: May 3, 2005
    Posts: 277

    Fred A
    Member
    from Encino, CA
    1. Upholstery

    Probably going to get what you deserve out of that old engine. They get mucked up and the slime settles into the oil galley behind the valve cover, blocking the main and cam ports. The oil pump is for gravity only and there is no positive system to pump past the blockages. Pouring oil into the distributor hole is good for the rods, but still not enough. It's common for the pan to be full of sludge also. That may be an engine worth saving but you reduce its chances by being lazy up front. Shallow thinkers with no skin in the game may advise you to go for it. Good Luck: Fred A
     
  30. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 484

    Driveway builder
    Member

    Yea, after looking at it some more I decided I'm just going to pull it a part and check everything... just wanted to hear it run, but not worth wrecking any thing. Since I'm pulling it a pat, I'm going to end up painting it and making it look good, too.
     

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