Technical need some cooling help on my eco

I have a 1966 econoline i got from a fellow member here. It has the 240 6 with an green dot auto. Wonderful lil truck. It has been sitting for a long time so I have been going through everything to get it back on the road. As I finally got it runnin and driven I have discovered a cooling issue. So I purchased a v8 swap 3 core aluminum radiator ( as I damaged the stock one) . I also put on a new water pump, new gauge, new radiator cap, thermo stat housing and thermostat. I had to fashioned a cross over tube as the new radiator outlet was on the wrong side. I also have flushed the system with a prestone kit, then used the prestone flush additive, drove it off and on for two days then flushed the system again. I also used the parts store block test to see if I had a cracked head or gasket...came through without a leak.

It slowly, gets hot. Doesn't cool off down to an acceptable temp. The cooler it is outside, the cooler it stays. Drove it around for over 30 min two nights ago before it got into the 210s. I achieved that with having no thermostat in the truck. So i thought I had fixed it all and that would put in a 180 temp thermo and she would be good to go. The next day I drove it and it went right up and past 210.

I don't think I'm getting the flow I need. I have heard of bad water pumps with impellers on wrong...from the start. I am also thinking the cross over tube could be problematic.

Any ideas at this point would be very appreciated. I have spent about 4 days on this fnnn thing. Thanks.

 

210 isn't that hot but,,,

Check temp gauge against an infrared temp gun to confirm the gauge or sender isn't telling you stories.

Two more easy ones.
Pop the cap and look for water flow.

Check to be sure fan is pulling air thru radiator and across engine.


Some engines require a bypass loop. Did you take this out? Not sure about the 240.

Some pics will help the eagle eyes spot things right away.

 

Any chance your van has a fan shroud missing?
I had a similar problem with a Dodge van from the same era, found out someone had shitcanned the fan shroud at some time in the past. Picked up one from the junkyard, problem solved.

 

i might try evaporust in the cooling system if i were you . might still be some junk in it . a fan shrould would help and if push comes to shove you could try a pusher electric fan to come on at 185 to help. maybe water wetter also.

 

I had a '64 Econoline & found that the factory sheet metal piece from under the radiator to almost the front axle that covers completely from side to is there for a reason : it directs the air flow through the radiator instead of letting it pass under the truck & turns the 'motor -box' into a sort-of 'shroud' without needing to add one in back of the radiator. Overheats without one, even with the small 6cyl. Hope someone has pictures?

 

There ya go. From the symptoms as described, I'd be willing to bet it's something of that nature.

 

Reminds me of when those past gen Camaros & Firebirds came out with limited grille space but a spoiler under the front to direct air up through the radiator. First time someone busted up the spoiler on the curb in front of the local 7-11 they just ripped the remains off and didn't replace it. Dealers had a lot of customers with new cars over-heating.

 

I hear ya on the shroud. I need to find a belly pan. But why would it get hot at idle or not cool down at idle?


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Do you have any photos of the installation?

Is it a new radiator or used? HRP

 

The only other thing I did was to add an expansion tank & a no-pressure cap so the water could flow easily back & forth as needed. The expansion tank will also give you more coolant volume to work with, as some of the replacement radiators just don't have the volume, & aluminum doesn't transfer heat nearly as well as the original copper does. Also : the thermostat needs to be in the system, or the water moves too fast to transfer heat! Ask the "flattie" guys about this : back in the day we all thought they'd cool better without the 'stat, & boy were we wrong!!

 

New radiator. 3 core unit.


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Yeah that's why I put it back in. Took it out to see if I had a flow issue. Seemed to be
Moving

The fan is about inch n a half to two from the new radiator. I put a sheet of paper at idle in the rad and it furiously clung to the rad.

I used a laser to fun to check temp on the water on top of the rad. No matter what the top ran the bottom always runs about 40 degrees cooler.

Weird thing tho is. That he temp coming from the out of the radiator (bottom ). Is nice n cool. But the hose is hot at the block where it goes in.

Heat transfer to the hose I'm guessing.


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I have (nearly) the same truck, so I think I can give a bit of insight.
First, a Falcon/Mustang/Fairlane radiator is a bolt in - with spacers. No need for fancy adaptors, as it's the same core.

Next, the stock fan is barely adequate. A four-blade with not much flow, and you have spaced the new radiator a bit farther away, further lessening the flow. Stock clearance is less than 3/4 inch. And its a three row, which reduces airflow even further. Paper test mostly tell you the fan is turning the correct direction. Lastly, no shroud. A seven blade fan and shroud (and belly pan) should clear everything up and more.

Then there is the belly pan. Absolutely necessary as was posted. I can take pictures, PM me if you want them. My truck is almost 100% stock. Except the seats, and I have the stockers.

As to temperature. 210 is not really hot. 240 is getting hot. A 195 temp thermostat is what I usually run, which in my Falcon (170/Ford-O) simply resulted in better heat in the winter. The three row radiator DID make temps slowly climb at idle, due to less flow through the core (more rows = less airflow), though it immediately cooled as I started moving. This was different than stock 2 row. I did not have a degree'd gauge, so am not sure of actual temp. You should, indeed, run an infrared temp scan to see about actual temp, and be realistic as to running temps. Temps in the low 200's are really ideal for efficiency.

Cosmo

P.S. For clarity, I recently had a Falcon (1961), and now have an Econoline P/U. Both have 170's, car with Ford-O and truck is four speed. Both stock.

 

Thanks Cosmo. I will want some pics if u can. The black one in my aviator was my first Eco. 61. It only got hot with lottsa rpm. It was the 170 3 spd

I dont have a four blade. It's at least a 5 blade but I can't recall.

So it sounds like I need a shroud and maybe move the rad back. I built a belly pan for the black one. Guess I can build another.

Thanks for advice!




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Thanks Cosmo, after 30 yrs I forgot about fan/radiator distance, & after your post I remembered a similar problem on another appplication. Getting old & forgetful SUCKS!! Now, what were we talking about? LOL !!

 

Is the crossover tube higher than the radiator cap?

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Oh no it's on the bottom of the rad. It is the lower point of the cooling system.


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I wonder if there is a way to test the volume of fluid that is being pushed throw the block. ?


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Are you running a steel bladed fan?

I used this on on all 3 of may cars and it dramatically improved are flow and dropped the temperature,the beauty of this fan is it doesn't flex. HRP

 

I do have pics. The bit is the rusty pan, most all else on the truck is white overspray or factory paint. Seems Ford did NOT paint the belly pan. Too, notice that it is very flat from side to side, only turned up at the edges. Should be a piece of cake to make.

 

Yes I have a steel fan like that one.

Thanks so much for the belly pan pics.

I had another ol Eco/rancho owner suggest a push fan just to see if we can lower the temps.

I know the belly pan makes a difference.


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I'd only ever think about a pusher fan for parade duty- and that's after everything else is in order.

If you are missing this belly pan, well that's what's broken in the cooling system.

 

I see that. Too. But a belly pan wouldn't solve heating issues at idle.

At least that's my thinking.


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Going to try a fan today. And a belly pan. Any ideas on how to test movement, or volume is the coolant that is moving through the truck?


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Is there a possibility you may have a water pump designed for a reverse serpentine system. HRP

 

I wonder how i would check that. Kinda feels like the water just ain't cooling the motor.

First thing today. I drove it 5 blocks to get it up to 180. Pulled the cap and watched the water move once the tstat opened. Then pulled it into the garage and built a belly pan with a fun to guide the air in front of the radiator.

Still got hot. But took 4 miles to get to 210. Then I set her in the shade to see if it would cool it back down idling. Had to shut it down at 230. Gotta be the pump or the cross over tube slowing the fluid. Shouldn't be. But. Really don't know what else to do. Oh. I checked the fluid temp at the bottom. It was 160 when the top water was 200.

Coolant is still very clear. Not mucky.


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Have you considered that the three row core is restricting airflow through the core?? As I stated, this was the ONLY change on my Falcon, and it ran hotter than the stock radiator, esp. at idle. You DID state you had a problem at idle, did you not?? My new radiator was not farther away from the fan, either.

You NEED a shroud. No question at all. The fan is too far away from the radiator, and the radiator is too thick for the original setup. I KNOW it's a pain working in there, that doesn't mean the work can be avoided.

Just FWIW, I changed the radiator on my Falcon for two reasons: I could buy it cheap ($97), and the old one was showing signs of it's age (date-coded Oct. 1960). It cooled fine. Again, the three-row replacement cooled fine at speed, but would creep up at idle due to a lack of airflow. And the fan spacing was about 1/2 inch.

Cosmo

 

Oh. I checked the fluid temp at the bottom. It was 160 when the top water was 200.

Ok, thats a 40 degree difference in the radiator means that its working and doing its job well.

Now when if the too tank reads 200* , was your temp gauge reading 200 or was that when it was 230 *.
The gauge would be just a little bit higher than the top tank but not 30*

You keep mentioning the the crossover tube you made - how about some pictures of that ? What's it going to take to pull the pump and inspect the housing and impeller?

 

It was hotter at the gauge. The sender is at the back of the block. So it would make sense that it is.

Ya know I don't have a pick if the cross over tube. It's one of those steel corrugated jobies. A universal hose if you will.

My thought is that the water is not flowing thru fast enuff. Cooling the motor. That's why it gets hot. But doesn't ever cool back down.

I pulled the radiator and the pump. I can't really see anything wrong with it as I didn't take a good look at the stock pump.

I am going to check a new prom
Napa. Rather than autozone. Just to be sure. Also I'm going to go ahead and swap the lower water out let on the rad. Try to limit the variables.

Lastly. With the pump off I flushed the water thru the block from the water pump side. I even pulled the sending unit out at the back of the block to make sure I got water thru there. I did. And it flowed well.



If anyone can tell me if the pump looks wrong. I'd really appreciate it.


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Well, my original Ford water pump has a cast iron impeller, and that one doesn't.

Cosmo