Register now to get rid of these ads!

Need Rear End advice.. What to get?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by IRON MAIDEN, Aug 30, 2010.

  1. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    I have a 46' Binder K3. I have a 327/700R4 combo I'm putting in it. I am putting in a 48-52 Ford F1 dropped axle up front with a disc brake conversion. I will have the option to go with Ford or Chevy rotors and will decide when I know what rear I'm running so that I can match the lug pattern. I just measured the 1 ton rear in my K3.
    (wheel mounting surface) WMS to WMS is 65"
    Flange to flange is 52.5"

    Posi would be nice. Not sure if I need it or not. I'm not too hip on the differences of rears so school me here. Will want disc. I know most can be converted but it would be nice to just get it all at once. I've been told that 3:73 gear ratio would be perfect for the 327/700R4 combo.
    I want to get something that I can find pretty cheap. Either at a dismantler or craigslist. Any advice?
     
  2. Get a 9" Ford rearend from a late '70's-early '80's Ford pickup. Here's why:

    (1) They're the right width; ~64.5" WMS-to-WMS.

    (2) Wide variety of gears, many are 3.50:1 (that's also an excellent gear ratio to go with your 700R4, depending on rear tire height).

    (3) Wheel bolt pattern is 5 on 5.5". You can redrill the axle ends to match a Chevy wheel if desired.

    (4) They come with big drum brakes (2.5" wide x 11" diameter). Disc brake adapter kits are availble.

    (5) Many (but not all) have Trac-lock ("posi" is a GM term).

    (6) They're still relatively plentiful. Depending on the local market, you should be able to get one ready-to-run for ~$200. Check craigslist and the local racing and 4x4 guys.

    Good luck. Hope this helps.
     
  3. HOT40ROD
    Joined: Jun 16, 2006
    Posts: 962

    HOT40ROD
    Member
    from Easton, Pa

    What Just Gary said and most of the late 70s - 80 ford pickup rears are 31 spline axle.

    The early (up to 1972) 9 inch pickup rears are a little narrower 61 1/4 inches hub to hub and are 28 spine axles.
     
  4. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Thanks guys. That's what I was looking for. How do I know what the gearing is and if it's Trac-Loc? And would running the big drums be a bad thing if I'm running disc up front? Or should I swith to disc as well when the funds allow?
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,520

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    If you are lucky ... it will have a tag ... like this.
    The tag tells your if it is a POSI and the gear ratio.

    [​IMG]

    Go here to learn most anything you need to know about 9 inch Fords.

    http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm

    I would not worry about going to dics brakes. I run disc on the front and disc on the rear of most of my projects.

    BUT ... If you want to run a little more offset rim on your binder ... A 2001 or so Ford Explorer already has the 5 on 4.5 Ford wheel pattern ( regular Ford ) and DISC BRAKES on the rear. They are 60 inches wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. I have a friend who has a Binder and he used a Explorer rear under his. He wanted some 10 wide rims.

    Explorer rears come with POSI, 31 splines and 3.73 rear end ratios a LOT. And they are cheap to buy ... most every Pick - A - Part has rows of them.


    .
     
  6. texoutsider
    Joined: Jul 6, 2005
    Posts: 826

    texoutsider
    Member
    from Frisco, Tx

    I will ditto that also............best bet out there.

    Mark
     
  7. The little metal tag on the center "chunk" will tell you all you need to know; gearing, trac-lock, original vehicle, date, etc...

    Decoding the tag and nearly everything you need to know about 9" rears can be found here:
    http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm

    For street driving in HAMB-type cars, big drums on the rear are almost as good as discs and WAY more traditional. Most of a car's stopping power is supplied by the front brakes, so if you have front discs, you're good to go. Disc brakes' big advantage is their fade-resistance after multiple stops (like if you're road-racing, rallying, etc.).

    IMO, the $$ spent to upgrade to rear discs isn't nearly as cost-effective as other (more HAMB-friendly) upgrades.
     
  8. AllSteel36
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 562

    AllSteel36
    Member
    from California

    Flip side....78-80-ish Fbodies came with disc brake rears, can be bought complete for less than a drum to disc conversion, trac is a bit narrower, IIRC WMS to WMS is about 63 or so....but shouldn't pose any issues...then have the font hubs done in 5 on 4.75.
     
  9. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Wouldn't that force me into some custom offset wheels?
     
  10. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    OK, I've been getting all kinds of different advice on this. So I'm gonna ask it a different way. And give some more info that might help some of you experts help me with finding a Ford 9" that will be a perfect fit for this truck. First, info on my truck and other Harvester trucks. I have a 46' K3 (1 Ton).

    The wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface is 65". on my K3 rearend.
    The Flange to Flange of the housing is 52" - 52.25" on my K3 rearend

    The 1/2 Ton and 3/4 Ton model uses a different rearend but uses the same bed and fenders.
    Its Rearend wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface is 60".
    The flange to flange is the same at 52"-52.25"

    The 1 Ton uses larger rear drums and that's why it is wider. I assume that the extra 2.5" on each side of my axle is corrected by the offset of the wheels used on the 1 Ton K3 model. Both setups obviously fit in the fender wells without issue.

    My bed width is 49"-50". It's a little tweaked at the moment so I couldn't get a dead on measurement but it's right there. The straight areas where a crossmember sits measures 49". The fenders measure just under 13" to the rolled lip. So 12.5" for the fenders. So the tires need to sit 50" to 74" to sit within' the fenders.
    The tires on it right now measure 71" to 55" (outside to inside) (not the tread but the widest part of the sidewalls.) center to center, the tires sit at 63".
    My frame width is 44". Not sure if the fenders will allow a wide enough tire to look good. I would rather not have to tub into the bed as I really like the looks of my bed. Looks like a coffin. But if I have to, i will. The bed is in bad shape anyway so....
    My plan is to find some old school mags. AR's, Torque Thrust, centerlines, something like that.
     
  11. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Well I scored my rear today. 95' Explorer 8.8. My friend who has a tow business had it on his lot and was planning to crush it. I went over today and stripped it out for the price of free, and a thank you of course. I wanted to get the drive line for parts but ended up leaving it as I was in a hurry.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  12. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,819

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    Did you get the driveshaft? Never can have too many of those around for spare parts.
     
  13. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    What is the plug on top of the 8.8? ABS? I cut the wire as far back as I could.

    None of the pictures I have seen have the counter weight deal on them like what I have on mine. It also has a shock mount on it.
    Is this removed and the shock ditched?
    Will I just use the two rear shock mounts on the spring plates?
    [​IMG]
     
  14. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member


    :mad: I did not. i was gonna grab it for parts but ran out of time. I had my sons BBall game to rush to.
     
  15. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    Looks like you made out like a bandit on
    that one.... the '3L73' on that tag means
    3.73 gears with a Traction -Lok differential!

    Mart3406
    ============================
     
  16. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    : ) Yeah I know. He lifted up the Explorer with his forklift so I could just stand under it to loosen everything up. I saw the tag and wiped it off and smiled. Now I just need to figure out how to fab it in. Will need front and rear hangers. The Explorer springs are longer than my factory International springs. The front mount will need to be 3/4" to 1" farther forward on the frame. The rear shackle hanger?? The leaf extends past the end of the frame. Gonna have to think about this one. I planned on extending and boxing the back of the frame. The frame rails just stop about 1.5-2 feet from the end of the bed. I figured I would extend it and box it right below the end of the bed. Then I will have something to bolt up a custom bumper to. It will also give me some more frame to work with for the rear shackle mounts. Not sure if i will be able to use some universal type hangers for the front and rear or have to fab everything up?
     
  17. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,529

    aaggie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The plug on top is called a "tone ring" and feeds the speed of the ring gear to the computer. Unless you run the Ford cruise controller just cut the wires off and leave the plug to keep the grease insie.
     
  18. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    ------------------------------------

    Instead extending the frame to use the
    Explorer springs, what about using the
    original International springs instead??
    That would greatly simplify things. If the
    original 1-ton springs are too heavy, you
    could remove a couple of leaves and/or
    have them de-arched a bit. A spring shop
    that does heavy and medium-duty truck
    suspensions should be able to rebuild the
    original springs and set them for any
    weight-rating or ride height you want

    Mart3406
    ========================
     
  19. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    If I try to use the original springs, then I will be looking at the same problem I am looking at with the front. The hangers that mount to the frame are cast parts and are ovaled/egged out from wear. I can get new spring eye bushing and that wouldn't be too big of a deal. But the shackle hangers are another story. I'm planning on going with a Ford F1 dropped axle with disc brakes and use a set of 1/2 ton International front springs I bought. It will all bolt right up. Problem is the cost to have my front shackle hangers machined out and a sleeve pressed in. The quotes I've gotten for such a small part of my puzzle make me want to ditch the idea and just go with the mustang II. I'm not speding a dime on repairing the stock rear hangers so I need to figure out another option.
     
  20. BulldawgMusclecars
    Joined: Jul 15, 2010
    Posts: 508

    BulldawgMusclecars
    Member

    Are they still commonly available in salvage yars out there? I don't remember the last time I saw a 2nd gen F-body in a junkyard with a rearend in it at all (8.5, the good 10 bolt), much less a disc brake one.
     
  21. old lady's mad
    Joined: Mar 18, 2007
    Posts: 173

    old lady's mad
    Member

    could you reverse the spings or turn them around . you dont need the shock off the counter weight.
     
  22. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    ---------------------
    Could you post some pics of the front and rear
    shackle hangers? If we can get a look at them,
    and see exactly what you're dealing with and
    up against, somebody here might be able to
    figure out a low-buck way to repair them or
    something else that will interchange with them
    maybe.

    Mart3406
    ========================
     
  23. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Of the Explorer setup or the factory Harvester hangers?
     
  24. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    The original Harvester hangers.

    Mart3406
    ======================
     
  25. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Here are the original Harvester hangers. These are the front shackle hangers/bumper mounts, and the rear shackle hangers. The hangers for the other side of the springs (perches?) won't be hard to repair.
    But these shackle hangers are cast. They have been egged out and don't have a lot of material/support around where it will need to be bored out to fit sleeves in. I've been quoted as high as $800 with them not even sure if it would work. That was for the front only!!! Cheapest quote was close to $400 for the fronts only. Never even had anyone look at the rears. It's been very discouraging to say the least. These tiny little parts!!! The money I spend trying to fix them could be my dropped axle front suspension. A dropped Ford axle is $350. I would rather spend it on the axle rather than on fixing these original hangers. But I need to figure it out as without them, I need to change directions.

    Here is the front shackle hangers. They were rivited to the nose of the frame rails and have a threaded nose for the front bumper to mount to.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  26. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Here are the shackle hangers for the rear axle leafs.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  27. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,880

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks like you are on the way to having a winner.

    There are a couple of ways to get around the rear spring thing.

    See if your buddy has any Astro Vans or Dodge Mini vans (mid 80's short ones) at his yard that you can get rear springs and all the brackets off. I think both unbolt from the vans pretty easy. Or pull the springs off and have the rear main leaves shortened enough to fit the frame. A google search shows at least three shops in the area that should be able to do that.
    I'd be getting back down there and grabbing that driveshaft too as you will need that flange on the end to hook up to the rear end.
     
  28. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member


    Like a fool, I left the driveline. The Explorer was hauled to a local pick-n-pull right after I pulled the rear out. He was pressed for time and I was trying to make it to my sons baseball game. I'm sure it won't be hard to find another flange or another driveline to pull one off. But... now it will cost me.
    Will the little astro springs be heavy enough for an old truck bed? This is an 8.5' bed and I'm gonna put a wood floor in it. Won't ever have a load but the bed's pretty heavy.
     
  29. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Also, what was this part really for and why is it ok to remove it?

    [​IMG]
     
  30. Sjiefaa
    Joined: May 18, 2009
    Posts: 168

    Sjiefaa
    Member
    from Holland

    Isn't that a vibration dampner?
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.