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Need Paint advice for bare metal.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by FouledPlugsCC, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. FouledPlugsCC
    Joined: May 5, 2010
    Posts: 51


    Hello all! I need some advice for my current build. Before you tell me to use the search function, please realize, I have for the past couple weeks. I find the information a little confusing and contradictory from different members. Here is my situation:

    I have used aircraft stripper to take my 54 ford down to bare metal. This has taken me a couple of weeks as I work on the car in my spare time. I DA' ed the entire car as well(80 grit). Much of the car is now covered in surface rust. I have many dents to work out and filler to add. I will be replacing the rockers and welding some trim holes.

    Question time:
    Do I need to neutralize the stripper I have used on the car?
    Is it beneficial to use ospho at this stage, since I will be performing more repairs?( I read the entire ospho thread)
    Also, I have seen suggestions to use weld through primer, is this appropriate?

    To be honest, I am looking for someone to tell me what they would do in this situation step by step.

    Any help is sincerely appreciated. I apologize in advance for any redundancies to other posts people may see.
  2. 63 Avanti 3137
    Joined: Dec 23, 2010
    Posts: 160

    63 Avanti 3137

    Your good to go... for a rustoleum job
    If you want a real paint job the first answer is yes you do (baking soda won't do it)
    First you have to decide what you parameters are... Money/Quality/Timewise
    then decide if you trust some one else telling you step by step vrs spending some more time educating yourself so you at least know why you chose to listen to some telling you how to spend your money.
    I say that as someone who found a 'voice' (via many web searches over time and forums) that I came to believe and I generally follow it. (I've never spoken with the guy...)
    Pick a system be it Laquer, acrylic enamel, urethane and then learn about it.
    Educate yourself as to what the different products are made of and why some work and others piss you off.
    What you do now could be ruined a year after you roll it out of the garage.
    I knew why I chose the route I chose. (Thank you computer godgeeks of yesteryear for creating the search function!)

    And no... I'm not telling.
  3. FouledPlugsCC
    Joined: May 5, 2010
    Posts: 51


    Well that was extremely vague and didnt help at all...hahaha....thanks I guess?
  4. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 17,342

    from California

    it probably made more sense before he typed it.
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  5. HighSpeed LowDrag
    Joined: Mar 2, 2005
    Posts: 968

    HighSpeed LowDrag
    from Houston


    Do I need to neutralize the stripper I have used on the car?

    Yes. Before priming, wash the areas with dish detergent/water, then DA agin with 80 grit, then wax/grease remover. Then spray epoxy over everthing. You can sand off the epoxy in the areas you need to replace metal once you have the whole car stripped and in epoxy

    Ospho - If you strip one or two panels at a time and put them in epoxy on the same day, you dont need it.

    Weld through primer is used where you have two panels that make face to face contact such as a trunk drop off to the quater panel. Areas that are supposed to have contact. The weld through primer allows you to prime the two pieces before you plug weld/rosette weld them together.

    PM'ing you now

  6. 63 Avanti 3137
    Joined: Dec 23, 2010
    Posts: 160

    63 Avanti 3137

    Yeah... I was going for 'anti-step by step' and I guess I tripped.
    wait... no... I was trippin...

    I guess one needs to smoke a bowl for the translated version?:eek:
  7. Do a search for a member named overspray. Read everything you can find. Check out the tech section. Ask for specifics. Many ways to do what you're doing. You'll get conflicting opinions here, and it gets confusing. Buy all your stuff from one local supplier. Make sure they can put you in touch with the paint rep for the product line you using. Get to know them.
    I use mostly all PPG. I buy my stuff from a paint and body shop supply store. I know the PPG rep, and trust him.

    It takes some education to do this and not have it fail. Thats why some of us charge what we do, to do what we do. And this shit is expensive. Both materials and labor.
    I think that's what Avanti was getting least that was my take after a bowl....;);)
  8. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,652

    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    Tinbender's pretty much right on the mark.
    The problem with this place is, there are too many people, with no money, and very little experience, who HAVE to chime in on every thread and tell you what to do. Just about any question about welding, paint and bodywork, will be loaded up with conflicting info, it takes quite a while to weed out the guys who know, from the guys who hack stuff up, or watched their cousin's brother-in-law paint a car once.
    Besides that, there really are different ways to do things and have them come out right.
    My method, and I've been customizing cars for over 30 years, would be to neutralize/clean thoroughly (with detergent, then a pre paint cleaner, acetone, or lacquer thinner), NO Opsho, or weld through.
    I prefer working with House of Kolor Epoxy primer. All the way thorugh the job. Adheres very well, fills minor imperfections, sands easily and seals pretty good. You can body fill over or under it.
    What I usually do, after stripping the car to bare, neutralizing, and sanding, is to primer it with a couple coats. Not thick enough to get in your way, easy to sand off to do repairs, or welding. After doing the repairs, feather out any primer still on the panel, and reprime. Until the car is done.
    Then guide coat it, block it out with 180, and 3 more coats of primer. Then guide and block again maybe with 220 or 320, until ready for paint. The last cut should be 400 grit or finer. Really no need to seal, but if you want a uniform color/surface, or a better color match to your paint, you can put a sealer over it, then paint.
    This is just a quick description, and you can look up any terms you dont' understand, lots of info here and on the 'net. Here, pay attention to any posts by Overspray, Highlander, and pimpin paint, they are all very good!
  9. autobodyed
    Joined: Mar 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,945

    from shelton ct

    is the car still together or did you strip in pieces? if it's still toghether your probably gonna want to take the fenders, doors, deck lid and hood off of it to clean all the jambs up real good. that stripper gets every where and if not cleaned up real good can come back to bite you down the road. here's how i would do it. i would clean each panel 1 at a time with thinner, soap and water, then da each piece w/80 grit and sand every nook and cranny and etch prime. with all the body work it sounds like whatever first primer you put on the is going to have to come off anyway. buy a gallon of SEM self etch, comes ready to spray right out of the can. do your bodywork on each panel and whatever etch primer is left just scuff w/220 and prime the entire panel with a good 2 part primer. work smart, not hard.
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,756


    The surface rust is a bigger hurdle than any remaining stripper. If you neutralized and sanded already, it sounds like you need only inspect the corners and crevices to be certain, and perhaps any pinch weld areas. For the surface rust, as hard as it seems, metal prep is best. I like to apply it with red or green Scotchbrite pads in case like yours. You can do 1 section at a time and be ready to preserve it and prevent flash rust from forming before you get to the whole car, or have a crew that can do the whole car and switfly get it sprayed, but that's not realistic.

    As you prep you look for the solution to not "fisheye" on the bare metal, and at that point you're perfectly etched, or as some say, "pickled". Compressed air and hot water are a huge benefit here as the heat speeds drying and the air finishes it off. It should have a blue/gold look. At that point you can go to final primer/surfacer or give an epoxy base. I prefer final prime because by the time the rest is done you'll have to sand or "tooth" that entire layer of epoxy, and frankly I'm kinda lazy like that. Sand once:eek:

    It's correct what was posted, weld-thru is for panel flanges and over laps. As to cleaning bare metal with solvent, there's a "thing" that irritates me to the max, and that's all the little fibers stuck in the sheet metal, wadded up in the 80 grit scratch marks. Then you blow the car off and they're all over the paint area, and no matter how hard you try there's still hundreds left after you get the thousands off the metal! Sorry, personal peeve there.

    You mentioned body repairs, and I prefer to do that in bare metal, fillers and all. Again, my personal preference as I've seen halos in epoxy covered with filler due to the filler's solvents softening the substrate. I should mention, all of my procedures are for fairly "ultimate" finish work. I haven't done any driver quality work in a long time, maybe over 15yrs or more, but proper metal conditioning and preservation should span all of it.

    To review: etch the metal, dry well (and try to avoid fibrous rags), spray primer of choice, attack the body repairs.

    Last note on epoxy primers, many of them remain non-sanding for up to 72hrs. Some only 1/2 that time. Check the tech sheets if you go that way as it could save you hours upon hours of sanding and provide safe adhesion in crevices and other hard to sand areas. Again I'm kinda lazy like that...
  11. This is spot on....
    You should know that my primary involvement in this hobby is paint. I painted my first car in 1979 as a student of the biggest State College Auto body Associate degree program in the State of Michigan. I have remained involved since and now am working for one of the Detroit 3 as the Subject Matter Expert for aftersales paint and body shop materials. Myself and another Engineer for Paint Engineering administer the O.E. Refinish Paint Approvals. We will visit one of the major paint companies today to see their 2014 offerings for new technology. I still paint and mostly do custom work now - just not many big jobs - kids and a 40+hr / week deal here at the office get in the way of the fun.
    I did not tell you that to brag - I am not interested in that.
    I believe you would do well to know a person's background - when pertinent - as it relates to the questions you ask on here. I am an average guy that has had a lot of experience and some cool exposure to the refinish paint business that is unique - all I want to do is pass that on - not be a big deal.
    The Highlander on here is an awesome painter - I know him. I would let him work on anything I own - he is one of only a couple of people I will say that about.

    Here are some of my favorite tips:
    after neutralizing the metal you stripped (spoke of in earlier replies) get phosphate wipes (henkle makes them for Sikkens) and wipe the clean dry steel before you apply a direct to metal primer (Epoxy, etch prime, whatever). Phosphate wipes do a great job of prepping the bare metal, improving adhesion and adding another barrier to future corrosion.

    I could go into another tangent on what to do about brown metal (rust) but not in this reply. My only point is that paint over rust coatings are dangerous - there is only one that passed tests and you have probably never heard of it. We Test this stuff - I want test results not "claims". The most heavily advertised ones failed the worst.

    Weld through primer is for lap joints - anywhere a sheet metal flange is laying on another sheet metal flange (see earlier reply - spot on)

    Whatever you do - Use one paint company's products all the way through. NEVER MIX BRANDS - when it fails no one can help you and you might have to start all over on you own dime. (lots more than a dime).
    Hope this helps so far...

    I am glad to add more - or email you - let me know what you would like.

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