Technical Need help with setting Distributor in SBC 350 HEI

WTF ???
How would You verify , actually physically verify both TDC piston position and the timing marks ? You can bet your ass that the guy in the video did all that verification before he put the tape on the balancer, he knows his mark is correct & confident.
The engine is a 86 and his pointer is under the water pump. BIG ASS RED FLAG.

 

You're asking me what I would do.
The question here is what HE should do first. You are already assuming he never had his buddy's timing light on it before now. You are also assuming the timing mark is at 12 o'clock, rather than on his timing tab somewhere. We don't know the answer to either question yet.

 

With the valve off turn the engine and watch the valves on #1 when the exhaust is closing and the intake just starts to open You are at TDC exhaust. Check that the timing mark lines up. Turn the crank one turn and set the distributor to #1.

 

The whole situation is assumptions, the mother of all fuckups.
This thread is all over with speculative suggestions on every system.
@Bulletkolector's first assumption is that the timing marks he's using are correct. Or that there's not another one on the balancer. The marks shown very well could be correct, again assuming that someone took the care to re-mark the balancer ( so where's the other mark???) or change the balancer to one marked at TDC in that location and trust they got the right one - assumption.

In reality those marks are 100% completely irrelevant until they are verified to be accurate.
A piston stop test and mark verification is the absolute best 100% guaranteed way to get it exactly correct. The method sunbeam just posted works well too if your methodical about it and can get you pretty close if the cam's overlap is centered over TDC exhaust, and even simply sticking a soda straw in the plug hole to feel the piston's position and movement while watching the mark and rotating the crank will put the first step taken right out of the manual of basics to bed.

For me, if I'm going to get picky about setting total ignition timing at 35 instead of 36 or 34 well that means I need a light and I need to know that the marks are accurate. If I need to be certain the total timing does not exceed 38 then I need to know the marks are true before I can do that. Other wise turning the dizzy to where the butt dyno says its running its best, and listening for starter drag is plenty good enough and no light is needed.

 

Vick,
It sounds like our friend is in on # 1 on the compression stroke. If he watched the intake valve open and then close and then used the straw method and rocked it back and forth , he should be able to find TDC , within a few degrees.
If the timing mark on the tab somewhere , and the rotor is on # 1 wire, then it should start and run, even if off a few degrees either way. Agree?
Okay, so let's not forget, the thing was skipping and running rough, so that's why he pulled it apart. We can't expect it to just pop off and run all crisp and clean when he gets it going.
Let's see what he and his friend come up with before any more conjecture, okay guys?

 

I like all this arguing over stuff none of us knows for sure. I will say that despite owning a timing light, (I also have, and know how to use a dwell meter, but nothing I've owned for 10 years has points) my preferred method of "timing" is the above mentioned, "...advance the timing till it starts to kick back agains the starter then back it off just a bit...". I'll add that if you wire an HEI wrong it won't start. Ask me how I know that...

 

IT'S ALIVE!!! I am going to give you all as much detail as i can, from the beginning of this post till the end...i am very appreciative for all the suggestions and assumptions that have been given, they have all made me more aware of my SBC 350 and given me much to learn...i thank you for the positive and apologize for some of the negative feedback that this has caused, in the end, i know you were all trying to help...i thank you.

And now, the good stuff, as you know...from the beginning of the post i said how the engine ran, but was missing...so my pops pulled the distributor out thinking we could find TDC by following the marking on the Harmonic balancer. We tried and we had no luck, he and i spent hours trying to turn the engine over, but would get a never ending starter sound...just the starter trying to start. He had to go home to another island and i kept pushing forward...tried everything from videos to asking my old school hot rodders, they kept saying it might be a slipped balancer or your 180 out. I pulled the valves, watched the rockers close, both of them in one and watched the exhast valve on #3 start opening and my harmonic balancer was perfectly aligned every single time. So i verified i had fuel,spark and compression...i think i stated this in the beginning...all looked like it was good, which it was. So i read a post from Dooley which told me to go back 8-12 degrees after you find TDC, which i did...it stumbled, wanted to start , we advanced it a bit and the BOOM, it fired right up. We put a timing light to it and it was reading 12 degrees with vaccum connected and at about 900 rpm on the tac (well, thats what my friend told me, i need to buy a tac). He has worked on many cars and was amazed that my suggestions worked. Thank you all so much, i will try to answer any questions you all have for me, to the best of my ability...was nice to have you all along for the ride! Now to take this baby for a joy ride...Aloha!

 

Cool Beans.

 

Great news. Still wonder about the missing..

 

I am assuming, which i dont usually do but i believe the spark plug wires or spark plug or plugs may have been fowl...i will see if it is still their on the road test...i am having a few cold ones!

 

Me too, after this one! Tomorrow we can talk about vacuum advance and timing.

 

Thanks for all the help Mark! \000/

 

Good News
Always a good sound when it fires

 

Thanks for that tid bit Dooley...priceless!

 

What am I, chopped liver?

Glad it's running.

 

Hahaha...my bad Ebbsspeed, thanks a bunch, it did feel good when as you say, it may take off! and boy did it! I love the knowledge in here, hope i can add a few tips to help others when needed...next hurdle will be the bodywork! i absolutely love this truck!

 

Oh good !!

 

SUPER to hear of your success!

 

Hope your ride is as fun as this thread has been.And the funny thing is,I learned a few things .

 

Ok guys...looks like i have another issue rearing its head. So last week my buddy and i were able to get my truck timed and it ran very well, at least with it sitting in the garage and revving the engine, it was responsive to any throttle and idled quite nicely. I was going to take it for a spin on friday, went to start it and it idled very rough and once i put it in gear, it died...tried to start it and could not get it to idle nicely again. When we set timing, we screwed down the distributor bracket and started it, ran and sounded awesome! Now its running rough...i feel like the distributor module may be going bad...any thoughts? I mean if you all heard it...it sounded great! Was gonna start a new thread, but this one has got all the history...later guys!

 

Hummmm??
What's causing your truck to eat HEI distributors ?

Basics-
Pretend you do not know the truck.
Start it up-
Check charging voltage
Check fuel pressure
Compression test - 30 mins tops.
Check for power and ground at and inside the distributor - you want full battery running charging voltage going into the module.
Inspect cap, rotor, post connections.

Something above will be out of spec or you just got bad luck and a cursed truck

 

Just some info, i did not touch anything after setting timing last week, all i did do was reroute plug wires and verified they were all put back on correctly, i did notice that the HEI Distributor mechanical advance re curve bushings look worn...

 

Ok, will do...cursed, i hope not! But i will try everthing you said...hopefully when i get home.

 

If the bushings are worn, then your timing will be very irrational and erratic. There's Just itty bitty springs and centrifugal force that makes it all work along with a pot if it has vac advance. I worn bushing could queer the whole mechanism


For example -
They could be stuck, stuck in advanced position and then you set initial timing and then they move past the burr and your timing is now retarded but it makes no sense.
One of many scenarios.

I was taught to set total timing at 3500 rpm. Then go back and check intitial and watch the advance move back up. Should stop advancing at around 2500 and initial be tolerable range. If not then you recurve it or find the issues.

 

Sometimes ignition system problems are really fuel system problems.
Truck been sitting?
Fresh gas put in lately, check fuel filter.
External fuel pump or in tank?
Vented cap or non vented? Cap tight?
You just never know.

 

As far as fuel system, all fuel issues are good, new filter,gas and a new Holley red series fuel pump. All new gas, non E gas...

 

Can you double check this
I've screwed this part up a few times....the plug wire placement if you took them off

 

Ok, my new distributor came in and i put it on the truck, truck started with new distributor in...ran rough, but it started as soon as i dropped it in, so i am pretty sure that the old module may have been on its way out. I did buy new NGK BKR6E VPOWER plugs and put them in, and now it is not wanting to start...WTF! I had read that the NGK plugs were a good buy for SBC 350, but it seems like the Autolite 3924 actually starts better. I am so confused at this point, i think its time to take this Cursed truck to a garage...i dont get it, runs fine one day...then it starts shooting gas through the carb, i need to form an exorcism on this truck!

 

If you take it to a "good old fashioned" mechanics garage there's a pretty good chance they will find the problems and fix them. They will start off with the basics, they will start at square one, step one and walk right up thru the process

If you take it to a type of garage commonly found today, they will WAG and throw parts at spending loads of your dough and throw their hands up and say "yep, you were right this truck needs an exorcism, there is a church right down the street. We can tow it there for another $75. Here's your bill for $2500, did you want that tow?

The funny thing is these mechanical and drivability issues are simple. They are nothing more than a long series of extremely simple mechanical functions depending on each other to get the vehicle down the road smoothly and efficiently. It's very relatable to a line of dominos falling over, it you take one domino out of the middle the chain stops falling- simple right?

Another thing about resurrection of an old vehicle, the biggest problem shows up first. Not the only problem, not all the problems, just the biggest one.

 

I hear you, i finally have the truck running...it now runs good at idle! Hahahaha, but sputters and does small backfires once there is load applied to the engine. Revs perfectly fine, very responsive when applying throttle...sounds great while revving, not great while driving so i know it is still not running right, its ok though, i enjoy working on this and the knowledge learned will be very valuable in the end. I recently removed the valve covers and spark plugs to set the lash to zero on my hydraulic lifters...By hand cranking the engine over and Starting with #1 cylinder, i turned the engine over until the exhaust pushrod just begins to move up, at this point, i stopped and adjusted the intake valve on #1 cylinder to where i felt a slight grab once the up and down play of the rod stopped, and i twisted it between my thumb and index fingers and felt a little tension/ pressure. Stopped there, did 1/4 turn on the 5/8 bolt to set pre load and tightened the set screw while holding the 5/8 bolt. I set all intake and exhaust valves this way. I just have a question...when the valves are not engaged, i am able to push the inner rocker arms down a bit, like a springy feel to them, the ones that are engaged have no movement which logically seems normal