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Projects Need help to convince for engine swap

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Mr.Falcon64, May 3, 2019.

  1. hello everyone. I’m writing with a stupid thing today. I honestly think I need to see a doctor to get my brain checked. I’m looking at some 200 CI engines for my 64 falcon but still can’t get over having to rip the old one out. I know that old 144 won’t be able to run AC or go on the highway or do hills at all but somehow I feel so much guilt if I rip out the old girl kinda like I’m remove part of the car that makes it that car. Idk how do you all cope with multiple engine swaps lol. My other real question is does anyone know how to get a 8.5 inch clutch for these things I can’t find them anywhere? Thanks everyone
    Jarod
     
  2. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 21,129

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    rockauto has your clutch
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...6,1333943,transmission-manual,clutch+kit,1993

    as far as the question about driving on the hiway w a 144. People drove them on the hiways and up and down hills every day when they were new. Is yours running as good as it can? as far as AC I don't have it in any of my old cars. Doesn't get real hot here. I can't tell where you are from because you didn't fill out your profile....
     
  3. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,893

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

    I have a 1968 200 for many years.
    To my knowledge it has 125000 miles on it without a rebuild. Still has good compression.
    These definitely aren’t a torque monster.
     
  4. I’m in Phoenix AZ. When it’s under 90 I’m fine with no AC but triple digits AC becomes less of a luxury and more of a necessity to me lol . In all honesty yes I could handle it but it wouldn’t be fun to drive anymore.
     

  5. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,250

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    If I were swapping engines, I'd go SBF. Have you considered a warmed over 260 or 289?
     
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  6. mountainman2
    Joined: Sep 16, 2013
    Posts: 322

    mountainman2
    Member

    Yep, the 144 "defined" the Falcon to the point that as soon as Ford had a small block V8 in production, the falcon was offered with that option. And every HOTRODDER that ended up owning one with a 144 followed suit and swapped engines. o_O
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
    firstinsteele, JeffB2 and Tim like this.
  7. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,017

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Redirect your focus on the car itself, not the engine. View the engine as a useful component, that when not useful enough, needs replacement. Kinda like a wiper motor or the differential....parts is parts..;)
     
  8. Park it in summers hell and work on it... Drive the shit out of it when the others are freezing there asses off !
    Even the pavilions don't have shows in the summer

    I would also look for a SBF to stuff in it also...
     
    JeffB2 likes this.
  9. I thought about a v8 but he amount of work I’m better off for 4-5K just buying a v8 falcon already. I’d need tranny, suspension, brakes, frame bracing, wheels and tires and a bunch of other little nickel and dime stuff. V8 is for another car. This is supposed to be my decent 20 mpg cruiser. I know someone who on a 144 got 23 city and 30 highway. 200 seems to get 18-20 both are pretty good I can afford the gas for that
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  10. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,157

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    I had a 64 Falcon coupe with a 173 cui engine and it ran freezing cold a/c when ever.
    My dream was to install a 221 cui six but never found one and eventually sold the car.
    I figured with a 221, I could run a/c and power steering if I chose to.
    Once I did the Karel Shelby front suspension arm drop, the steering did get a little heavier with slightly wider tires on it and PS would have been nice around Mall car parks and in town.
    The trouble with those old Falcons is, they lack decent top speed, so best to consider something in that department as well, especially if you do choose to stick with small HP.

    I went to 14 inch rims and stuck with the stock 3.7:1 diff ratio but was still frustrated by lack of top speed, all you seem to do is wear your engine out with excess revs...
    I also used a Ranchero diff housing of the same year which gave me 5 stud pattern, heavier duty axles and bigger rear brakes.

    I found a complete Ford stub axle with discs for my front and swapped to disc brakes.

    Just some food for thought for you...
     
  11. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,858

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    If your 144 is in good tune you could run the newer Sanden A/C compressors they only draw 2-5 HP https://originalair.com/restoration-ford-engine-compartment-upgrades You might want to hang around here to learn some tricks to wake up the little 144 https://fordsix.com/
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  12. s55mercury66, belair, ottoman and 4 others like this.
  13. Go old school build

    upload_2019-5-4_8-27-16.png
     
    gimpyshotrods, mgtstumpy and Hnstray like this.
  14. Are you sure you are in the right place? Hot rodders LOVE to swap engines and related components to make cars go faster, quicker, handle better. Fordbarn is better suited for people who want to keep stuff original and do not want to change anything that makes the car what it is.
    Just my 2¢
     
    mountainman2 likes this.
  15. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,858

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    Ask this guy to give you a hand. :D 1firewall.JPG
     
    winduptoy and fiftyv8 like this.
  16. Ha no you guys are all right. I do not hot rodders engine swap a lot.

    Thanks for putting it like that I never really thought about that perspective, that makes it a lot less harsh

    My falcon came from the factory with the 3.10:1 final drive and with my 24” tires I turn 3K to do 70 mph. Not great but I can live with it. Good news is at that speed it’s always in its peak HP range

    If I did switch engine to 200 I’d also eventually do 5 speed manual with overdrive swap should give much higher top speed and economy on highway
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  17. Kind of a side not note but thank everyone for your responses. I appreciate the help. One thing I’ve noticed is these old falcons don’t get much love. It’s all mustangs or Fairlanes or etc. but the humble old falcons just get parted out people seem to forget the first mustangs were basically ford falcons with different body panels.
     
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  18. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,250

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    You didn't say in your original post you were on a budget or concerned about MPG.

    • MPG: I drove a 260 equipped 64 Falcon 2 dr hdtp in HS in the mid 70's and can assure you you'll get the 18-20 MPG from a SBF no problem, that you state your 200 will get.
    • Budget: You can do it for less than 4-5k especially if you're not using all new parts and doing your own work. Find someone restoring or parting out a Mustang. Source a Mustang rear end, 5 lug front hubs, brakes (upgrade to discs), do the Shelby drop (free), etc. New Mustang V-8 radiators are cheap ($125). With the 200 swap, figure you'll be paying the same as you would for V-8 parts such as water pump, motor mounts, ignition, etc. (unless you have a running 200 for free that doesn't need a carb rebuild, plug wires, etc.), What will be the cost be for the 200 swap? Maybe 2k less? Used Mustang parts and Steelies (in 5 lug) like your running in your avatar are plentiful and super cheap.
    • That means you could go V-8 car for a couple grand more than the 200 not 4-5k.
     
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  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,094

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have a 200, and AC in mine.

    When these other guys are ready to come over with a bag of cash, and their tool boxes, ready to help, then, and only then, do they get a say in how you build your ride.

    Before the 200, it had a 144, with a Weber 2-barrel, and an HEI. It did fine on the freeway.

    With the 144, and an S10 T5, it managed crossing the Sierra Nevada Mountains, over Donner Pass, more than a dozen times.

    Those are some pretty good "hills".
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
    fiftyv8 and TrailerTrashToo like this.
  20. coilover
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 649

    coilover
    Member
    from Texas

    I had a 62 Comet with the 144 and an add on York style a/c system. Had to allow lots of room to make a pass and even cut compressor off if passing on a slope. Later had another one with the 221 Windsor V8 with a/c that was peppy and got unbelievable gas mileage
     
  21. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,094

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You don't need to build a 200.

    Find one in good working order from a muscle car guy doing a V8 conversion on a Mustang. Mine was cheap.

    Go to a salvage yard and get a 1980, or later 200/250 head for about $50.

    Get the carburetor, distributor, and spark box from the same donor, for another $50.

    Drop the head off at the machine shop for a valve job, seals, and have 0.090" cut from the deck.

    Put that all on. Even without a cam change, that is 40hp.

    If you feel adventurous, get the small cam (110 LSA) from Clay Smith Cams, with lifters.

    It won't need valve springs to go with it, as long as the stock 200/250 ones are good.

    That's 35-more horsepower.

    You could add a good 75 horsepower, for about $500, 'ish, over the short block price.

    Re-use the adjustable rockers from your 144.
     
  22. Holy fuck balls !!!
     
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  23. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,094

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    York compressors are power hogs.

    I have a genuine Sanden 508 (no knockoff).

    I don't turn it off, April-November.
     
  24. I do see your point 4K was about of an exaggeration but the 200 is a bolt in operation. It will use my current mounts, tranny, clutch, radiator, water pump etc. only thing needs changing would be carburetor. But I do see your point in v8s everyone. If a v8 can get 20 I’m sure the i6 will do even better. But one reason I didn’t state as well is I like the 6 mainly because it’s not an 8. When ever I go to a car show I see plent of mustangs with v8s and what few falcons I do see majority of those are 8 swapped as well. Now don’t get me wrong I do love the feeling of torque and horses when you hit the go pedal which is why I’m planning on aving up for a v8 pickup. That will be my “fun” car I don’t care about mileage or originality on. I’m not trying to start anything with anyone just my reasons.
     
  25. Yeah I know I’m crazy right lol. I think I’ll be fine. Just store it well in garage until I get back to it in years.

    Out of a 144. Amazing lol I didn’t think these were good for more than 20 up a hill. I’m definitely looking into what you said about a 200 though that’s kinda along the lines I’m thinking
     
  26. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,094

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My heavily modified 200 is now at over 210 horsepower, at the wheels.

    My last run across the largely flat, all freeway, middle of California, netted 35MPG.

    I do not have a carburetor, so that helps.
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,094

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    All of the Falcon sixes (and everywhere else they appeared) have the same two defects, until the 1970's.

    Those are the carburetor, and the distributor. And, since the carburetor controls the distributor director directly, you cannot just change one of these.

    There is a special valve in the stock carburetor, that looks like a Holley power valve, but on the outside. That is the Spark Control Valve (SCV). It controls the Load-O-Matic distributor. If you look inside, you will see that there are no centrifugal weights in that distributor. It works with all vacuum and springs. My elders tell me that these sucked, right off the showroom floor, brand-new.

    When my 144 was crossing the Sierras, it has a Weber 32/36, on an adapter, and a DUI HEI distributor*.

    The front side of that 32/36 has a barrel that is about the same size as the stock 1-barrel. Then it has another one, so you get passing power.

    I did not pay to put it on a dyno back then, but there was a decided increase in power, denoted by butt-feel.

    Bear in mind, the 144, the 170, and the 3-main 200 (very rare), all have a distributor bore that is smaller than a seven main bearing 200 or a 250. The distributors do not interchange.

    If you have a 7-main 200 block, you can utilize a Duraspark II distributor, and spark box, from any 200/250 donor. I think these are 1974-up.

    *The DUI HEI for the early engines is out-of-production, because they cannot get any more drive gears. You can call them, and see if they will make you one, if you provide the gear.

    IMG_20170114_181057.jpg
    This one is not a good example, as it has full digital engine management, and is backed by a 6-speed.

    Anybody can toss in a V8. They are not special. It takes skill and determination to maximize a 6.

    I have plans to build one that makes 1000 horsepower.
     
    Peter Willis, winduptoy and Hnstray like this.
  28. Can't help you with the clutch but it is easy on the engine swap. It is easy to deal with because I am a hot rodder, anything to make it faster or better in some way is my goal in life.
     
  29. sedantudor
    Joined: Jan 28, 2012
    Posts: 107

    sedantudor
    Member

    Usually for me gas mileage is not my main objective. When I am thinking about a car project, the first thing I do is figure out the intended purpose for it. If the goal is to keep the car easy on MPG and be driven, in my opinion this can all be accomplished with a V8 swap. As you stated, you want to keep the originality of the 6 and you like the idea of having a 6, it seems there are plenty of ideas presented here. Personally I have never toyed around with the Ford sixes other than the Ford 300 six cylinder. If I were you and trying to talk myself out of something or into something I would start by looking at the costs of various options. As I tell people, I will build a car on paper to get an idea of price and look at different options to find the "best" option for what I want the vehicle to do. Just a thought and I apologize for no real insight.

    As someone else mentioned, DUI distributors can't be beat. I use them quite frequently.
     
  30. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 4,856

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I had a 82 Granada with a 200 I6. This was the first of the fox platform, so I don't know about a comparative weight, but I know that 200 with a C4 auto behind it was one of the best cars I ever owned. You couldn't kill that little motor, it never used oil, and got great gas mileage. It was plenty peppy, and even with the tall gearing, probably 2.79 or so, it would spin a tire easily and run 70-75 mph all day long without a whimper. Never failed to start hot or cold. Only got rid of it because the wife wanted a minivan for room for our then two growing boys.
     

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