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need help positioning flathead in 34 frame

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lowsquire, Aug 1, 2007.

  1. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    lowsquire
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    hey all,

    the 34 is coming along nicely, will post better shots of all the work when i get time,

    I dont have the body here ( steel roadster) and am about to build engine and gearbox mounts..but i have no real references to determine engine position.
    obviously i want it in basically the stock position.
    does where i have it now look right? further back maybe?
    was hoping someone would have photos from similar angles for me to compare.
    will be using truck type pumps on an 8ba..that motor and pumps are just a mock up, but mount position is the same.
    how far above the xmember are the pump outlets on a stock car?
    any info that anyone has will help me piece this little puzzle together..thanks!!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Flatman
    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 1,975

    Flatman
    Member

    I think you want to move it back a bit more. The truck pumps stick out 5" from the mounting surface and the crank pully sticks out about 4" from the timing cover. Are you planning on running a stock fan or electric? My engine mount bolts are 5" back from the crossmember on center and I'm running an electric fan. I don't think there was enough room for the mechanical one.

    Flatman
     
  3. ss34coupe
    Joined: May 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,027

    ss34coupe
    Member

    borrow a cowl with a firewall and bolt it to your frame. That will give you a good reference to determine the stock position of the motor.
    Looks like a good project.
     
  4. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    lowsquire
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    thanks flatman,
    there isnt a radiator yet, i assume the bottom tank is pretty much centered over the radiator mount holes?
    my main concern is going back too far and interfering with the firewall.
    so 5" back from centerline of xmember left you a bit tight still?
     
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  5. Flatman
    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 1,975

    Flatman
    Member

    You just need enough room to swap the belt:D
    Are you running a hood? I built my own firewall and am not using a hood. I actually had to extend my cowl up to the engine (a Bantam coupe is really short!) Space at the back was not a problem for me.

    Flatman
     
  6. haha....yeah Ben, just scoot up to the corner shop. They'll have one there...surely. :rolleyes:
     
  7. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    lowsquire
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    yeh drop one over from the pile out the back peddro....
    actually, throw a 32 firewall in too..need one for the truck

    actually i think im going to leave about an inch in front of the pulley..
    anyone know where the crank centreline should be in relation to the frame/xmember?
    currently i have it sitting about 1/2" below the top of the rails,viewed from the side.sound about right?
     
  8. VAPHEAD
    Joined: May 13, 2002
    Posts: 3,257

    VAPHEAD
    BANNED

    On a 34 the motor is closer to the front crossmember then a 32.
    The tabs out front of the crossmember are for the radiator.

    I built a frame with a 34 center x-member and stock unsplit 34 wishbone.
    Can take a tape to it,
    if you slide the motor back it won't fit the firewall.
     
  9. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    lowsquire
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    ah yes i guess with a single pulley and water pumps in the heads the motor (original 34 type flatty) can sit closer to the crossmember than an 8BA can.
    anyone got photos of a later flatty sitting in a 34? ill have a look thru the tech..maybe TUCKs 34?
    thanks eric..some measurements would be great..even bellhousing face to a reference on the center X, like the dimpled holes in the top?
     
  10. Gasserfreak
    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 1,339

    Gasserfreak
    Member
    from Yuma, AZ

    My 34 has a later 59AB in it, its a real tight squeeze, heres some Pics I just took, Don't say I never gave ya nothin" :D. Sorry its all grody lookin', I haven't been workin' on it in awhile. the measurements will have to wait till tommorrow. On a side note, this swap was done in the 60's by a friend of mine and is still unchanged, right down to the crappy engine mount spacers. In order to squeze it in front of the 39 gearbox, the front crank pulley was machined off, and the generator mounted fan was used.

    ENGINE MOUNTS IN RELATION TO RADIATOR ON CROSSMEMBER
    [​IMG]

    A CLOSER LOOK
    [​IMG]

    ENGINE MOUNT SPACER
    [​IMG]
    ENGINE IN RELATION TO RADIATOR WITH FAN
    [​IMG]

    Hope those help
    Drew
     
  11. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    lowsquire
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    hey drew thats awesome, thanks heaps for the photos!

    im running a 5speed Toyota box in this (sorry!) so gearbox position isnt a limiting factor..
    damn that is tight at the front, theres no way a twin belt pulley would fit in there!
    how tight are you at the back of the engine to firewall? that would give me enough info to go on i think.
    the radiator hoses look about 3/4" above the xmember..is that about right?
     
  12. Do you need a 2 belt pulley? If not, lop off the front groove in a lathe. That'll save at least 1/2".
     
  13. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    lowsquire
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    not sure yet on the pulley.. will work that out tomorrow.
    its a shit trying to build a chassis without the engine or body...
     
  14. I'm thinking "tack."
     
  15. skratch
    Joined: Dec 18, 2001
    Posts: 860

    skratch
    Member

    any where near recycling container..
     
  16. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    lowsquire
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    recycling container?

    you lost me there skratch.....
     
  17. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,064

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

    I would not continue positioning the flathead until you have a radiator and grille on that frame. Its just too hard to try to get it right when building the engine mounts with the engine clearing the firewall and radiator and postioning the tranny mounts and later the rear axle.
    The front mount height should approximately be about 1/2" above the frame surface. the best way to figure this is to be sure the lower pump ports are exactly level with the radiator lower outlets. Otherwise its just too hard to install those hoses. Of course, the stromberg and holley carbs should be setting level although I have seen them a few degrees off with no issues.
     
  18. Flatdog
    Joined: Jan 31, 2003
    Posts: 1,285

    Flatdog
    Member Emeritus

    I think these pictures will help you out.If you need more detail call me.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Flatdog
    Joined: Jan 31, 2003
    Posts: 1,285

    Flatdog
    Member Emeritus

    better pic
     

    Attached Files:

  20. DrJ
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 9,422

    DrJ
    Member

    The stock position allowed for a hand crank to access the crank just above the front spring through the guide ring that is visible in Gasserfreak's first pic.

    It is going to be close enough that you really do need to locate the body/firewall, engine and radiator at the same time, to insure it has adequate clearance at both ends.
     
  21. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    lowsquire
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    yep,
    i guess you are right, i really need the body and radiator to get this right.
    and being a customers car im not really interested in doing it twice.
    the radiator will be custom made..so that gives me some fudge at the front i guess, the thing is running hoodless .
     
  22. Randy P
    Joined: Oct 3, 2006
    Posts: 411

    Randy P
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    Those "crappy engine mount spacers" are actually a cool old hot rod trick. They are factory motor mount brackets from a '49-'50 Merc that the hot rodders decided they could use to put a later flathead in the '33-'34 Fords instead of buying the spacers offered by the factory. They are functional and vintage parts, not that easy to find. Enjoy them.

     
  23. Gasserfreak
    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 1,339

    Gasserfreak
    Member
    from Yuma, AZ

    Heres the other pics you asked about. It's pretty tight againt the firewall, with just enough room the get the oil filler cap on(not an issue with an 8BA). The vertical surface of the block just below the head is right about and inch and a half from the lip at the bottom of the firewall, I had to use a straight edge becase the block sits below the actual firewall, the toeboard slants back. Anyway here are the pics.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hope this helps, let me know if theres anything else.
    Drew
     
  24. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    lowsquire
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    sheeit ......i really dont have a lot to play with there huh?
    well i guess the body will have to come over to the shop then.
    thanks again gasser freak!!
    really nice of you to help me out.
    that looks like a cool old rod..have you shown pics of it before?
     
  25. Gasserfreak
    Joined: Aug 31, 2004
    Posts: 1,339

    Gasserfreak
    Member
    from Yuma, AZ

    Yeah, Here's the link to when I brought it home. Other than some work on the doors, it still hasen't changed much. But it will.
    Drew

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123159
     

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