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Technical Need help on circle track engine build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Scooterlee2198, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. Here is one thing that has not been mentioned.

    You stated no engine "set back" what about "offset". A inch or 2 makes a difference...

    Also remember a old timer using these letters LWL all the time..

    LOW WIDE and LIGHT !

    Good choice on the Metric car BTW

    The 55 would have really been a cool factor but not competitive.
     
    bobss396 and Scooterlee2198 like this.
  2. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 3,004

    southcross2631
    Member

    Replace your front clip with an earlier gm ,like a late 70's Malibu . It will have bigger ball joints and better idler arm and use Camaro control arms or if you want Big LTD control arms which will give you almost 2 inches wider track. Only the sharpest racer will be able to pick up the change once its in the car. just tell them the car was wrecked and you had to replace the front clip or you bought the car that way and claim ignorance.
    Forget the 097 or any other drag race or street cam. Get a cam that is ground for dirt track use. The only cams I used that were drag race were Isky stock eliminator cams because of stock lift rules.
    Call Schneider and have them grind something for you. 2 track championships using their stuff. You can use stock diameter springs with cams at .500 lift with no problem.
    You should had your block bored .060 , why waste the extra cubes by only going .030. I have run a .060 over 350 2 bolt main in a dirt late model for 2 seasons. Turning it 7800 every lap, some 75 lap features.
    Speedway has stock appearing rear coil springs you can change in minutes. Don't screw around with stock springs unless they are new. You can get El camino springs which are designed to carry a load.
     
  3. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 804

    6sally6
    Member

    See my earlier post about shifting the engine over to the driver side a couple inches. Back a couple would help too. Beat up the metal around it and make it look crappy to not draw attention to it.
    The hollowed out powerglide with NO torque converter(less weight than alum. flywheels!) Was my 'best' trick for you.
    Dpn't worry about gobs of HP (like drag racing). Dirt track is totally different. Handling is the key. Good handling and good driver will beat gobs of HP every time. Big HP and you just blow the tires off!
    6sally6
     
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  4. 1pickup
    Joined: Feb 20, 2011
    Posts: 836

    1pickup
    Member

    There was a guy who ran a '57 Chev back when I was racing. The crowd loved that car. So did I, because my coil spring car had no trouble going around his leaf spring car. Most ran Monte Carlos back then, because the engine set back helped. I ran a '65 Chevelle. Longer wheelbase was more forgiving of the set up. Damn I miss those days!
     
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  5. Scooterlee2198
    Joined: Jun 9, 2019
    Posts: 39

    Scooterlee2198
    Member
    from Kentucky


    Why a 355? Because I was gonna use a set of "flat tops" I had laying around. but the compression would have been lower than what I wanted so I ordered a new set and decked the block. 13.5 is better than 11.5. And I didnt wanna wait any longer on the block. Talked to a couple other "old timers" who have moved up and said with my fuel and carn I'm running 5 mire cumbies whobt make much if any. Year after next I'm gonna build a storked 307.
     
  6. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,159

    GearheadsQCE
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    When you type, "with my fuel and carn I'm running 5 mire cumbies whot make much if any."
    Those little red lines under the words mean that there is no such word. You got lucky with 'mire' cuzin that is a word. Just doesn't make cents. ;)
     
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  7. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,157

    oj
    Member

    Best confirm the Rochester, around here they are going to let them run the 4412 next year. You almost have to design the engine around the carb in those classes so now is the time to about whats what for next year.
     
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  8. Scooterlee2198
    Joined: Jun 9, 2019
    Posts: 39

    Scooterlee2198
    Member
    from Kentucky


    Big fingers+little screen+whiskey= bad spelling lol.
     
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  9. Scooterlee2198
    Joined: Jun 9, 2019
    Posts: 39

    Scooterlee2198
    Member
    from Kentucky


    That will be for when I move up to super street. Those cars are a whole diffrent animal. OEM frame rails and the rest is tube behind the firewall. Basically just a modified with a car body over it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  10. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 4,775

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Stronger spring on left rear. Same for shock, you gotta keep the left rear tire planted. Get you self a real good shock guy. None of ours match. All rebuilt by a guy in his garage in mid America.
     
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  11. dcs13
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 97

    dcs13
    Member

    First things first, Do they even check engines ? How strict is inspections ? I started racing and followed the rule book, no one else did. Promoter wanted a good show and didn't care what we raced for the most part.. See what the guys that are winning are doing.. Make decisions from there
     
    Speed Gems likes this.
  12. Scooterlee2198
    Joined: Jun 9, 2019
    Posts: 39

    Scooterlee2198
    Member
    from Kentucky


    The drivers are the inspectors. We do random checks. Tires are checked by track every race.
     
  13. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 984

    Rex_A_Lott
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That ought to be interesting. There's not a single car that's 100% legal, if you look close enough. I was always for doing whatever I could do the cheapest, whether it was legal or not.Some of those money saving rules were just stupid. Why spend more to go slower?
    My number one pet peeve prime example was the "no jacking bolt" rule. You could buy a piece of all thread, a few nuts and a scrap piece of plate and make them all 4 for a few dollars, and move on to something else. Adjustments were quick and simple. Instead, you can buy the hidden ones that go in the chassis spring bucket, buy multiple springs of different rates and cut to different heights, heat springs to drop the ride heights ( very inexact) or some other means to jack the weight around to get the car to handle, all of which is going to cost more than four jack bolts would have in the first place.:mad:
    Good Luck.
     
  14. Speed Gems
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 2,381

    Speed Gems
    Member

    This means tear downs might happen more offten.
     
  15. Speed Gems
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 2,381

    Speed Gems
    Member

    The guy from Jones racing cams http://jonescams.com/ says he designs his cams around the cylinder heads, and he builds a lot of WISSOTA street stock cams.
     
  16. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 869

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    I don't like the idea of the drivers inspecting the other cars. Now you can just walk up to the guy's car that is winning every week and look it over with a fine tooth comb. Maybe he is doing something illegal and maybe he's not. Maybe he is "reading between the lines". But all the other drivers may get to find out why he's winning every week. If it was legal is it right to expose the winning racers hard earned "secret" to all competitors? I think a tech inspector should be the only one with access to the race cars. Did you ever notice the curtain the late model and modified guys put over the back end in the pits so nobody can see their setup? There needs to be a tech guy with the rule book in his hand and whatever tools and knowledge it takes to enforce them.
     
  17. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,157

    oj
    Member

    You could with enough experience. The things is that the heads will outflow the carb and the cam designer would have to know that. When I was doing the 350cfm 2bbl for the NASCAR restrictor classes the heads would outflow the carb so we'd have to lean the carb at the top end by creating what is now called 'emulsion' holes in the metering block. What happens is that the carb will hit an airflow plateau but the fuel continues to enrichen, if you simply rejet the fuel curve leading up to max flow is too lean. It was all legal and NASCAR would provide us with approved schematics for the metering block modifications.
     
  18. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,761

    LM14
    Member
    from Iowa

    Some things we learned with circle track engines thru the years.

    1. Cams are everything. Work with a good cam grinder that understands what your rules are and doesn't just spout off what his favorite part number is.
    2. I quit spending money on light cranks and started spending money on light pistons, rods and valvetrain pieces. The crank is at the center of rotation and the weight doesn't have nearly the same impact as a heavy piston does. The farther the item is from the center of rotation the more it effects the engine. I would rather run a 60# crank that is stable than a 35# crank that flexes.
    3. The lone exception to lighter valvetrain parts is the push rod. We actually went up to 7/16 tapered push rods and you gain a bunch of valvetrain stability. Worth that weight.
    4. Run the biggest carb that will pass tech. Even on slick tracks when a lot of guys would go to a slightly smaller carb to kill some power, I kept the bigger carbs in place. You can kill wheel spin off the corner by over-carbing the engine. Makes the bottom end mushy but you still have your top end when you can use it. Also, don't be that guy that runs super fat jets just to get fuel in a carb restricted engine. It robs power and makes the engine run hot. Jet it correctly and tune it properly.
    5. Lots of advantages to a good aluminum oil pan. All our dry sump stuff was aluminum. It cools, cuts down on those oil "BB's" bounding back up into the rotating mass and tends to keep oil intact and sliding across the pan instead of bouncing. On wet sump engines we lined steel pans with soft aluminum sheet and glued it in place to take advantage of keeping that oil out of the rotating assembly. It hits the soft aluminum and lays out instead of bouncing back up into the rods and pistons.
    5. Quality cooling systems are a must. We decided we would rather run a 19" high pitch "442" style fan than a lesser fan for less drag. What does it matter if you make 4 or 5 more HP but can't finish because the engine gets hot? Good fan (442), best water pump (Stewart Stage III), biggest aluminum radiator that fits the opening, a shroud and duct work in front of the radiator to make sure all the air comes from outside the engine compartment instead of sucking hot air over the top or around the side of the radiator.
    6. Smaller bearing surfaces help a ton. We ran 302 main sizes with spacers (351C block sized G351 Motorsports blocks) and Honda rod journals to cut down on surface friction. Well worth the money compared to stock sized journals. Runs cooler and less friction to rob HP.
    7. Work with an expert on intake manifolds. We had access for a few years to a genius on air flow and wet flow and spent a lot of time learning what did, and didn't, work on our engines. Think Brezinski. That's not who we used but he has a lot of experience with cast iron intakes.
    8. Proper gearing. You have to change gears to take advantage of what you have. Don't be afraid to change gears even if it's only 10 points of gear. Optimize everything you have. Same for tranny and clutch. Lightest that will handle your HP level. Maintain it.
    9. Stay on top of your setups and maintenance. If you are lazy and don't do routine maintenance on a race by race basis you are wasting anything you have accomplished making HP and torque. Set one night a week aside for tire prep (wash after races, one evening for grinding, grooving, rotating, siping, etc. Do all tire prep thru the week so you don't have to at the track). Keep tires clean, dirt on tires sucks chemicals out of the rubber. Wash the car after every race and inspect heim ends, shocks, bushings, bleed brakes, lubricate moving parts, and repair damage. Scales it, set caster/camber/toe, bump check it, know where square is on the rearend and decide how to change lead/trail.

    Too many worry about building every ounce of power but don't build a complete package (ignition, carb, timing, headers, cooling, setup). I would give up a few HP for longevity and smooth power over a HP spiking engine any day. Look for a long, flat, smooth torque curve vs a max HP number.

    SPark
     
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  19. Most rule books I have seen state that the #1 spark plug cannot be more than 1" behind the upper ball joint. We purposely left our chassis dirty so things would be hard to detect. Give them something shiny to look at and they will.
     
  20. Scooterlee2198
    Joined: Jun 9, 2019
    Posts: 39

    Scooterlee2198
    Member
    from Kentucky

    Its been good. We over look small stuff so far. Its a " committee " right now that track js to poor to have enough tech inspectors.
     
    Deuces likes this.
  21. Scooterlee2198
    Joined: Jun 9, 2019
    Posts: 39

    Scooterlee2198
    Member
    from Kentucky


    Thanks for the advice. Not trying to build to much. Just want the egine to be competitive and reliable. Ive got guys helping me with everything else. Been turning laos in a buddies car and can say I quite like it. Gonna drive a late model this weekend for a buddy. That'll be something lol.
     
  22. Scooterlee2198
    Joined: Jun 9, 2019
    Posts: 39

    Scooterlee2198
    Member
    from Kentucky

    I didnt make that rule and my vote was out numbered. So it is what it is.
     
    Deuces likes this.

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