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Technical Need help IDing these disc brake hubs?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 38 2 DR Sedan, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. Custom Hub Caliper Mounting 6.JPG Custom Willys Hub with Volkswagon Disc Brakes.jpg Custom Hub with VW Free Float Caliper 4.JPG I bought these custom hubs and disc brake from a gentlmen out of California some years back when I first got my Willys. He had them on a Willys pick-up he raced in the 60/70's, he was switching the front axle to a Mustang II so his wife could drive the pick-up on the street. What I am trying to find out is who made the front hubs. The disc and calipers are from a Volkswagon Square Back Wagon. They have a 5 on 5 bolt pattern. I also found the Manic Mechanic has the same hub on his Austin Gasser and I posted there but he never posted anything back. Maybe one of you early drag racers from that era may know something about them, who made them is the most important thing I IMG_0355.JPG Custom Hub Front View 5.JPG Custom Hub with VW Disc And Caliper 3.JPG Custom Hub with VW Free Float Caliper 4.JPG would like to know. The 4TH picture is of them on Manic Mechanic Austin and the other pic's are from my Willys Axle. His post is named Austin Gasser.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2016
  2. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 9,580

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Neither the discs nor calipers appear to me to be from a VW Squareback (Type 3). At least not the models from '68 thru mid '70s I am familiar with. Those VW rotors were one piece hub/rotor units, not bolt on discs. VW used ATE brand calipers in those days and as I recall they had ATE embossed in the caliper housings.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  3. They look similar to Hurst / Airheart disks...
     
  4. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 1,036

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    Looks like Hurst/Airheart to me also
     
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  5. Ok, so if they are Hurst/Airheart would anyone have a listing or catalog of them, I would like to find out the model for parts replacing. THE OTHER THING IS DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO MADE THE HUBS, I WOULD LIKE TO FIND A PAIR OF THEM. Thanks for any help that can be shed on this.
     
  6. I did find a couple of pic's of Hurst/Airheart catalogs and some different pic's of Calipers but none that match mine prefectly so that is why I am asking if anyone has some of these old catalogs and could post some pages that may show what I have for sure. I haven't found a part number on either Caliper or Rotor. As nice as the hubs are made there has to be someone out there that was producing them. Any help would be great.
     
  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 14,968

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    The caliper looks like a 1972-73 VW Karmann Ghia, which would be ATE (Alfred Teves GmbH).

    No idea on the hub and rotor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  8. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,302

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hurst/Airheart, Cragar, EDCO, and P.S.I. made disc brake kits in that era. Don Long also sold some kits but I'm not sure if he actually manufactured them himself. A little later there was also JFZ and Lamb Components. My guess is that the rotors may be a sort of standard race rotor that several companies used. It's hard to get dimensional data on all that old stuff but maybe Wilwood or Mark Williams has drawings you could get and match up to your parts. I'd call and ask for info, the M-W guys are great to deal with.
    Those brakes for Willys spindles are pretty rare unless the spindle was machined to Ford or Anglia specs.
    I'm lucky, so far all my old brake parts are in good shape.
     
  9. Thanks for the information you do have, I have searched the internet high and low and can't come up with who made these custom hubs. my pair and the ones you have are the only ones i have been able to find. In answer to your Question is mine are for Willys spindles, I have two pair and they fit both pair of spindles. Yes i am lucky to all of my parts are good too. Mine has Volkswagon calipers and you can still get them.

    What calipers are on yours?

    It totally surprise me that none of the older gassers guys haven't post and know just who made these hubs.

    I did find out which calipers are on mine, I have a picture of that. Mine are the ones in the middle. And like you said the rotors could be anyone's and the hub was built to match the rotor. Solid Rotor.jpg Volkswagon Karmann Ghia Calipers.jpg
     
  10. I did find this Willys axle with disc brake the hubs look some what like mine and the calipers do too. Stock Willys Front Axle 1.jpg Stock Willys Front Axle 2.jpg Stock Willys Front Axle 3.jpg
     
  11. Canuck
    Joined: Jan 4, 2002
    Posts: 979

    Canuck
    Member

    From a Rod Action article in 1975, Hamilton Automotive Industries offered a disc brake kits that utilized VW components. Maybe someone has a catalogue or knows of Curt Hamilton.

    Sorry no pictures.

    Canuck
     
  12. krgdowdall
    Joined: Apr 3, 2015
    Posts: 64

    krgdowdall
    Member
    from Alberta

    I have the same discs and hubs made by Magnum. Mine are for a Chev spindle but the als0 made them for Ford spindles. Your spindles appear to be Econoline . I also use the VW calipers.
    I purchased them from Total Performance back in early eighties. TP also used Econoline spindles, and may have had hubs for them also
     
  13. Hey krgdowdall, I will do checking for Magnum and see what I find, But my Spindles and Axle are Stock 1938 Willys, they are not Econoline. Wondering If you could post some pic's so I can see what your's look like, that would be great if you could do that, I really want to know what I have for sure. Thank You.
     
  14. krgdowdall
    Joined: Apr 3, 2015
    Posts: 64

    krgdowdall
    Member
    from Alberta

    I found an old Magnum magazine add, and the kit was available with JFZ calipers, so that may be a clue.
    I will see if I can get a photo for you.
     
  15. krgdowdall
    Joined: Apr 3, 2015
    Posts: 64

    krgdowdall
    Member
    from Alberta

    38 2 Door:
    See the attached photos. The hubs and disc looks similar, not sure if it is exactly the same.
    I purchased the hubs and discs, and sourced the VW calipers here in Canada. I fabricated the caliper mounts.
    let me know if you need further information, measurements etc.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Here are a couple more pictures of bchctybob's Austin disc brakes which match mine exactly accept his Austin uses Ford spindles where mine are on stock Willys spindle. I still do not know for sure who made the aluminum hubs, the rest I know what they are so I can get parts if I need them. Hopefully someone will run across the manufacturer of the aluminum hubs. Would like to thank everyone who posted help in finding out what I have for disc brakes. Bobs Disc Brakes 1.JPG Bobs Disc Brakes 2.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  17. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,302

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    38 2 dr sedan, that old axle and brake assembly is pretty cool. A great example of ingenuity in action. It looks like Volvo rotors on a modified stock hub and VW calipers. I did that on the front of my '27T years ago. The Airheart calipers are really cool.
    The hubs and rotors in the pictures from Krgdowdall look like the ones Magnum still has in their catalog but they are different than ours - mine has a stock style push in outer grease cap. I'll keep looking too when I think of it.
    Someone mentioned Kurt Hamilton, he did some gasser stuff years ago so he may have info if he's still around. I believe the guy from Morgan Hill who put the hemi in a Hillman had him do the rear end - so he may still be out there (if it's the same Kurt Hamilton)
     
  18. Hey Bob, Yes I agree the old axle and brake assembly are very cool. That is why I am so interested in finding out who made the hub assembly. Yes I did find a Magnum online catalog that is in PDF format and they show the hubs Krgdowdall posted and they are different then ours. Can you post a picture of the stock push in outer grease cap I'm missing them and they are smaller diameter then most caps, I can't find a cap that will fit mine, so I may have to mill out the ends of my hub so I can put grease cap on. So you think we have Volvo rotors on these custom aluminum hubs. Yes the caliper I agree are VW.

    I posted on your thread about your custom front axle you make, I have another set of Willys spindles and would like to get a straight tube axle built to the stock Willys width and be able to use the Willys spindles so the ends would have to fit the Willys king pin, is that possible to have an axle built that way. This would be something I would need to know the price of so I can save up the cash to have it done.

    The part that really Pi$$ me off is when I got my Willys the big thing then was Pro Street so I didn't keep my steering column, box and linkage so I am having to come up with all of that, which I am going to use a Corvair box and column and build a drag link to make the steering work, which is cool, but would have been easier to have the stock stuff, still kick my a$$ for doing that.

    Ok cool on you still looking and I will too so maybe we can still figure out who made these hubs, I know it's not that big of a deal but I like to know what parts I use on my builds, ok let me know and I will too. Tony/38 2 dr sedan
     
  19. I found a fellow Hamber, (nick28) who is trying to sell this pair of aluminum hubs which he bought from Pete and Jake's, they are for a Ford with drum brakes. I PM him to see if he can remember if P&J maybe sold the disc brake hubs we are trying to identify, as soon as I hear back from him and I am also going to call Pete and Jake and see what they have to say, maybe we have found who made these very cool hubs. Pete & Jakes Aluminum Hubs For Ford Drum Brakes 1.jpg Pete & Jakes Aluminum Hubs For Ford drum Brakes 2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  20. Ok I believe I have found out who made the aluminum hub that I am trying to track down. I called Pete and Jake and spoke with the owner who filled me in on what I have. They are a Kit that Super Bell sold in the early 70's, it use's the VW caliper and a Super Bell rotor which mounts with the 5 holes so it is replaceable. But with a newer change they have gone to a vented rotor. These Brakes are now call Super Stoppers and instead of having the 5 ear to bolt them to the hub the ears are all tied together to be solid where it bolt to the hub. This setup is not made any more, they have moved on to the better built Willwood brakes. He said that the reason the old rotor was changed is that the area where the 5 finger bolt on to the hub the rotor would crack because people were using them on to heavy of a car. He also said that the old rotors were heavy enough that they didn't really warp. If your rotor are in good shape they will probably last quiet a while. So what we thought were Volvo rotor's turns out to be a Super Bell rotor. He also said that if a hub is ever ruined you would have to change the hole set-up because the hub is no longer available. As far as the bearing and seal go there are numbers on the bearing/seals so any good Bearing Company can put you into bearing and seals. Also if you need pads you can buy them and I also found a company that can reline your pads if the metal plate has not been ruined, so keep an eye on the pads, just encase you have to reline your pads. I want to thank all of the Hamber's who posted with they ideas on what I have in the way of the brakes. It seems that when I have something I need to know the H.A.M.B. always come across with an answer. :):D:cool::cool:
     
  21. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,049

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    So to dig this one up from the dead.

    Did we ever figure out what the cool finned calipers is off of?

    Looking for a 1960's drag/street disc brake system and this popped up on google.
     
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 14,968

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

  23. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,049

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    Shit! That isint going to fit in the "go fast for cheap" budget.
     
  24. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 14,968

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Is there one?
     
    kidcampbell71 and Hnstray like this.
  25. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,049

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    There is always a budget.
    Garlitts probably has millions to play with.
    I am lucky to have a $100 per pay cheque.
     
  26. Go fast for cheap? Sounds real scary :)

    Mercedes 123 ( and similar) front brakes.
    14" rim fits too
    image.jpeg
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  27. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 1,220

    Fordors
    Member

    These are on my coupe, pucks ( Airhearts use four round pucks, not pads) hard to locate now so I will likely change over to Wilwoods some day, and I'll keep the 3/8" rotors. The hubs are cast aluminum and the whole set up was a kit from Gene Scott's PSI.


    scan0019.jpg
     
    1940Willys likes this.
  28. dan r brooks
    Joined: Sep 15, 2007
    Posts: 27

    dan r brooks
    Member

     
  29. dan r brooks
    Joined: Sep 15, 2007
    Posts: 27

    dan r brooks
    Member

    The caliper is off an early 70's Porsche 914 I think I search all over and finely found
    a rebuilt set in b.c. if you can get them rebuilt do it .they do crack in the piston bore
    as for the rotors I never did find out
     

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