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Need help Id'ing Saginaw 4 speed

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by cagedruss, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. cagedruss
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 43

    cagedruss
    Member

    I came a across a 4 speed Saginaw and I need to know what it came out of. GM 62 6 188 B I think. Casting number is kind of hard to read. There are also 3 rings in the input shaft. Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. oldspert
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,258

    oldspert
    Member
    from Texas

    Don't know what it came from but could be an early Vega. The three rings mean it has a very low 1'st gear. Something like 3:21. If you don't have a rear end ratio higher than 2:90's first gear will be over before you know it.
     
  3. nummie
    Joined: Jul 7, 2010
    Posts: 214

    nummie
    Member

    and if you have anything more powerful than a briggs 1st will be over before you know it!
     
  4. KoolKat-57
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 3,016

    KoolKat-57
    Member
    from Dublin, OH

    3 Lines (grooves) 3.50 2.47 1.65 1.00 Vega box!
     

  5. cagedruss
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 43

    cagedruss
    Member

    Is there an online chart for Saginaws? I found them for Muncies.
     
  6. granny
    Joined: Apr 1, 2009
    Posts: 56

    granny
    Member
    from WA state

    I'm aware of 5 different gearsets used in the Saginaw 4spd...

    No grooves= 19 tooth input, 2.84 low, 2.01 2nd, 1.35 3rd, (all had 1:1 4th)
    One groove= 19 tooth input, 2.54 low, 1.81 2nd, 1.44 3rd
    Two grooves= 18 tooth input, 3.11 low, 2.20 2nd, 1.47 3rd
    Three grooves= 16 tooth input, 3.50 low, 2.47 2nd, 1.65 3rd
    1" x 14 spline input= 16 tooth input, 3.50 low, 2.16 2nd, 1.45 3rd

    All the 3 and 4spd Saginaws I have seen ALL use the same 29 tooth 1st gear mated to the same 15 teeth on the cluster. The different 1st gear ratios are actually a result of different 1st stage reduction ratios used (input shaft tooth counts vs. their mating front cluster gear tooth counts). In my experience, there have been NO differences in the actual 1st gear tooth counts.

    Interestingly, the 2 groove 3.11 gearset and the 3 groove 3.50 gearset share the same 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear tooth counts, and share the same 29/23/19/15/15 cluster counts. The only difference is the input shaft tooth counts and two different diameters for the cluster's 29 tooth front gear to make up for differences in the input shaft gear diameter. Changing only the input shaft and cluster can change a 3.50 gearset to a 3.11 (or the other way around), as the rest of the gears are the same. Beware if you are shopping for a 29/23/19/15/15 cluster, as there are two different diameters for the 29 tooth front gear- and they are not interchangable even though they have the same tooth count.

    The 3 speed Sags use the same input shafts as the 4spd. Some aftermarket input shafts may not use grooves for identification, so use tooth count and gear diameter for comparisons.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  7. Pitbullgoingpostal
    Joined: Jan 2, 2009
    Posts: 422

    Pitbullgoingpostal
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yea! What granny said!
     
  8. cagedruss
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 43

    cagedruss
    Member

    I had a Vega in high school with a 327 and I used the Vega Box for over a year until I was able to get the Muncie out of my Dad's Race car and I did abuse it. At least with my experience it wasn't that week. I suppose it will still work for I need it for plus the price was right. Thanks for the help Granny!
     
  9. cagedruss
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 43

    cagedruss
    Member

    I was doing a little research on the bay and found a listing for a Sagina from a Monza that had 3 rings but the rings were closer to the bearing and were 2 close and 1 father away then I saw one listed for Camaro and it had 3 even spaced rings like the one I have. OK, need to know what is up. Thanks for your help.
     
  10. cagedruss
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 43

    cagedruss
    Member

    Found what it is. Not a vega box.

    SAGINAW 4-SPEEDS (CAST IRON)

    0 LINE INPUT -2.84/2.01/1.35/1.00

    1 LINE INPUT - 2.54/1.80/1.44/1.00

    2 LINE INPUT - 3.11/2.20/1.47/1.00

    3 LINE INPUT - 3.50/2.47/1.65/1.00
     
  11. cagedruss
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 43

    cagedruss
    Member

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