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Technical Need help, I think I got screwed

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by area351, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. It’s not uncommon for the big engine remanufactures to sleeve every hole. I once had a 300 Ford that was a Jasper Reman and all of the cylinders were sleeved. No clue why they did it that way. I could see it on a hard to find core, but a Small Block Chevrolet??


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  2. Think like a high volume rebuilder.

    Every engine gets custom machined and custom pistons and the associated cost.
    Or
    There's few Gaylord's of identical pistons, rings and sleeves and the savings associated with bulk.

    Every engine gets assembly line bored for sleeves.

    Now it makes sense
     
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  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,854

    squirrel
    Member

    but the strange hand grinding on the bottom of this one, makes it look like it was not an assembly line operation.
     
    Boneyard51 likes this.
  4. I don't think that's a crate motor- The 3970010 block was a high nickel block from the 70's if I recall. I have had a few of them, stock bore and bored .060 over, both mine were 4 bolt mains, and I never had an issue with them. Mine were not sleeved though. I agree with others, have a machine shop check it out. If it turns out to be junk, they may cut you a deal on a block, you never know.
     
  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,634

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ahh the 010 myth that won't die.

    The designation 010 means a casting designed to be finished at 4.00” bore.

    It does not mean anything else.
     
  6. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,854

    squirrel
    Member

    010 also means it was pretty likely that it was machined as a 4 bolt main block. But not positively. I think all but one that I've messed with were 4 bolts. Almost all from 1970s half ton trucks.
     
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  7. hotrod1948
    Joined: Jan 17, 2011
    Posts: 454

    hotrod1948
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Milton, WI

    Actually the 3970010 was the casting number for many years. They were able to be machined as either 2 or 4 bolt main styles. Most were 4 bolt but there are a few 2 bolt ones. Depended on what engine manufacturing plant machined and assembled the block. There is no truth to the high nickel block as an '010. Believe me, I worked in the Foundry that cast most of the blocks.
     
  8. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 2,976

    Fordors
    Member

    How would a machinist in an engine shop help evaluate this block? There is no way he could know or determine how much interference fit was used on the sleeves.
     
  9. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,854

    squirrel
    Member

    if it looks like it ran for a while after being sleeved, and none of them came out or leaked, it's probably OK?
     
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  10. buffaloracer
    Joined: Aug 22, 2004
    Posts: 800

    buffaloracer
    Member
    from kansas

    To answer your original question, unless you paid a premium, you didn't get screwed. May of been intended as a blower block. No way to be sure without talking to the original machinist. I'd use it. I would use a torque plate when I honed it.
    Pete
     
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  11. Diesel engines use liners, not sleeves.
    To sleeve a V8 engine would be around $ 1,000 -1200
    I have never seen one done on a "regular" block......
     
  12. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,863

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

  13. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,138

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You question whether you got screwed or not. You didn't get screwed because it is sleeved. The level of screwage would be determined by how much you paid for it.

    Tell us how much you paid and the HAMB members can weigh in on whether or not screwage has occurred, and if so where the needle points on the screwage meter.


    Screwage.jpg
     
  14. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,889

    Dyce
    Member

    I would recommend decking and boring/honing with a torque plate. The sleeves press fit tends to distort the block deck, the cylinders should be good if they installed all of the sleeves and trued the deck before boring and honing. An experienced machinist can tell a lot about the cylinders when honing them, by the way the cylinders expand and how smoothly they hone.
     
  15. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,854

    squirrel
    Member

    looks like it was already decked after sleeving, eh?
     
  16. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,092

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    Since you bought it less than 24 hours ago, how about asking the seller what the story is. Maybe he can offer some insight even if he tells you when and who he got it from.

    My guess is that because of the high cost associated with sleeving all 8 cylinders (vs using a replacement block) is that the builder was damn set on not having any (future)bore issues. Might have gone into the machine shop, needed a cylinder sleeve and the (anal retentive) owner said "do all eight, I'm not going this route again".

    Owner may have owned/worked in a machine shop and the job was merely the cost of the sleeves and his labor.

    Engine may have been a high duty workhorse, circle track, etc.
     
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  17. area351
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 8

    area351
    Member

    Previous owner knows nothing. He bought it and never did anything with it for years.
     
  18. area351
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 8

    area351
    Member

    $175 with a good, cast crank, 217 heads, another set of good, used pistons and rods and the cam (which I haven't even looked at yet).

    One original piston that came out had some scouring on the skirt and another was cracked while dissassmbly supposedly.
     
  19. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,516

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't think you got hurt paying 175 for what you got.
    The cost of having a block sleeved is almost all in the labor with a
    Melling Cylinder Sleeves CSL332F being 33.61 from summit(copy and paste bold type) Meaning that a machine shop buying sleeves wholesale probably can get them for 20/25 each which might be way less than the cost of a set of high end pistons. That if you have the boring bar and ability to bore and sleeve the block and have a set of pistons there to use. Not cool when you have to pay 100 + a hole to have it done but viable when all you have in it is your time and the cost of the sleeves.
    That said I remember boring and sleeving a couple of six cylinder blocks in high school auto shop because the sleeves at that time cost less than a set of pistons and our labor didn't cost the guy who owned the pickup anything. That was 55 years ago and I haven't done one since.
     
  20. CNC-Dude
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 890

    CNC-Dude
    Member

    As has been said already, "If done correctly! " From the looks of it they weren't really installed in a manner that most professional oriented shops install sleeves. The first no-no is to not bore the cylinder all the way through the bottom of it. The sleeve needs to have a step near the bottom to stop it from moving. Once the head is installed, the sleeve is trapped and can't move. If you bore all they way through the bottom, the sleeve can shift or move even if lok-tited.
     
  21. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 6,147

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Build it and hit the go pedal really hard
    That’s the best way to test it
     
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  22. area351
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 8

    area351
    Member

    Correct. Back in the day I bored a race engine (one off Volvo Turbo) but left a step at the bottom of the bore about .250 wide or so and pressed the sleeves up to that step and then decked the block. The heads help hold them in place.

    That was all aluminum block with steel sleeves.
     
  23. ottoman
    Joined: May 4, 2008
    Posts: 288

    ottoman
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I have installed hundreds of sleeves... I prefer to not bore all the way through to leave a bottom ledge for the sleeve to sit on so it cant slide down.. peace of mind :) I have seen many sleeves install as pictures show with no issues. As said above the sleeve material is superior to the std block material. The grinding shown is to clear crank counter weights after sleeve is installed.
     
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