Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Need HELP, 8BA in 40 coupe

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by hunterpowered, May 4, 2017.

  1. hunterpowered
    Joined: Aug 4, 2013
    Posts: 3

    hunterpowered
    Member

    I have been searching and can't seem to come up with what I need, SO it's time to ask the experts. I have a nice 1940 ford coupe that the motor is shot in (busted block) the drive line is all in tack and good shape(Already has the better gear ratio installed). I would like to install a 49 8BA without allot of modifications. I know and already have the different water pumps but what do I need in terms of bell housing, clutch, ect ? Thank's for any help.
     
  2. 40Standard
    Joined: Jul 30, 2005
    Posts: 5,963

    40Standard
    Member
    from Indy

    time to drop in a SBC
     
  3. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,027

    19Fordy
    Member

    Since you're ready to make the BIG switch, I respectfully suggest you install the nicest state-of-the art flathead set up possible. Here it is:
    https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206955&highlight=8ba+1940+coupe
    You will also have to solve the "room for fan" problem. Electric fan is easiest solution along with a radiator that is clean as a whistle. be aware that the 8BA hose inside dia. is smaller than the 40 top radiator water inlets. Larger thermostat housings are available from Flathead Jack, but they are expensive. Plus, be aware of customer reviews like this.
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/flathead-jack-is-a-crook.87778/.
    Also, rubber hose inserts can be used on the stock 8BA thermostat housings. Do a search on Fordbarn about this. you could also buy alum. 49-53 thermostat housings and have larger dia pipe TIG welded to them.
    I installled an 8BA in my 40 coupe in 1972 and it's still there. Zip over to Fordbarn and do a search and stuff like this excellent info. will appear. This tells you all you need to know and what parts you need.
    https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154620&highlight=8ba+1936+coupe
    https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167488&highlight=install+53+merc+36+ford
    and
    https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146737&highlight=install+53+merc+36+ford
    You might also want to consider making an open drive shaft conversion as it makes any driveline repairs much, much easier in the future. Methods vary depending on how deep your pockets are. If you keep the transverse spring you will need a torque arm. If you convert to parallel springs you won't. The traditional torque tube looks nostalgic and "the look" is popular right now. Check out www.hotrodworks.com and do tons of research What ever you do, DO NOT USE THE REAR RADIUS RODS AS TORQUE ARMS. They can't handle the severe torque load that the torque tube is designed to handle. They will crack and eventually break. If you need any info. I will be glad to share what I have done re: the 8BA instal I am still using the stock trans., torque tube and rear. Just PM me. Keep asking questions and gather up all the info. from folks that you can. All the best with your project. One more thought. Move your battery to the trunk so engine compartment looks cleaner. Plus, it will keep the battery cooler. Mounting battery in the firewall is a mortal sin.:(
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 4, 2017
    stillrunners and kidcampbell71 like this.
  4. You need a bellhousing from a '49-51 Merc.
     
    32Stoker and dan c like this.

  5. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 3,098

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Or a '48-'53 truck bell:)
     
    dan c and 29AVEE8 like this.
  6. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,027

    19Fordy
    Member

    Regarding the truck bell. You don't need to use the 11 inch truck clutch and pressure plate.
    The 10 in. clutch and pressure plate is more than adequate.
    in this case, bigger is not always better.
     
    Boden likes this.
  7. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    memory says to beware the 6 cylinder engine to tranny bell... not sure, thicker ?
     
    Boden likes this.
  8. Mac VP
    Joined: May 13, 2014
    Posts: 462

    Mac VP
    Member

    If you plan to stay with the stock type 3 speed transmission (closed drive), among other little details, you'll need the following:
    1) 1949-50 Mercury stamped steel bell housing and its matching starter plate. This will handle up to a 10" diameter clutch.......... or.........you can use the 1948-52 Ford V8 truck bell housing and its matching starter plate. This is the cast iron bell housing and it will accept up to an 11" clutch. NOTE: the 1953 truck bell housing is completely different and will not work on this swap.

    2) You have to use the late style flywheel with a late style flathead. This means from a 1948-53 truck V8 or the 1949-53 passenger cars. The 1942-48 type flywheel will NOT have the correct starter ring gear alignment. The 1949-53 Ford car flywheel was drilled for the 9-1/2" clutch and, in my opinion, is not suitable for use with the 32-48 type transmission input shafts. You should look for the flywheel from the 48-53 pickup truck with the 10" clutch, or use the flywheel from the 1948-53 truck with the 11" clutch, or lastly the flywheel from the 1949-50 Mercury cars with the 10" clutch. Lacking availability of these three types, you could have a competent machine shop redrill a Ford car flywheel from the 9-1/2" bolt pattern to the 10" pattern.

    3) Up front you need the Ford truck water pumps from 1948-52 or the Mercury pumps from 1949-50. Both types have the horizontal support mount needed for your car, and both have the wide belt pulleys. The Merc pumps need a spacer to keep the engine level. The Ford truck pumps are available new. The Merc pumps are not, and you'd have to have a set rebuilt.

    4) The fan is the next issue. If you plan to use an electric fan, you don't have to worry about placement of a mechanical fan. However if you want the look of a fan up front, you have two choices. Either the fan assembly from a 1942-48 Ford or Mercury will bolt up, or the fan assembly from a 1949 Ford passenger car, or the fan assembly from a 1948-52 Ford V8 truck will fit. All are wide belt pulley to match your pumps. The 42-48 car fan blades were 16" diameter. The 49 Ford car and the 48-52 Ford truck fans were 18" diameter. You may need to use the smaller fan blade in the 1940 car. The 49 Ford car fan is a unique single assembly and swapping the fan blade itself is not easily done. The others use the 8 bolt removable fan blade.

    5) Use the generator assembly from the 1949 Ford car or from the 1948-52 Ford truck V8. These are wide belt pulley, and the bracket is meant for the motor. It also provides the correct mounting flange for the above mentioned fan assembly. The generator itself can be converted to 12 volt if you want that. You can also use a modern 12 volt alternator with the correct mounting bracket (having the provision for the fan mount assy).

    6) You must have the wide belt crankshaft pulley to operate all this and those come from a 1949 Ford car or from a 1948-52 Ford truck V8. This is available as a new part (8BA-6312-B).

    7) The upper radiator hoses on the late style flathead V8's were 1-1/4" inside diameter. Your '40 radiator had 1-3/4" hoses so you either have to change the upper outlets on your radiator to 1-1/4" or adapt the hose outlets on the cylinder heads to 1-3/4". There are no stock upper hoses made to handle this transition that I know of.

    8) The later flatheads going into earlier vehicles will also have to get the rear sump oil pan....either from a 49-50 Merc or from a 1948-52 Ford truck engine. Whichever pan you choose will require the matching oil pump pickup tube.

    There may be other details I've missed here so others can chime in. Pretty much all the parts are available either used or new or both. One other note....if your '40 came with the little 60hp V8 engine, you'd have to remove the special 60 front mount brackets on the front cross member and probably need to upgrade the radiator for more flow.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
    moparboy440, 32Stoker, Corsa and 4 others like this.
  9. wow...thanks VP for the input !
     
  10. chevyfordman
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,355

    chevyfordman
    Member

    I put a 51 8RT truck engine in my 40 and the extra 15 HP is really perfect. The swap is real easy, only had to cut out the cross bar on the fender support. I just doubled up the hose on head water outlets. The perfect, easy and rare engine to use would be this 42 Mercury engine, its 100 HP and would fit right in. PICT0351.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  11. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,027

    19Fordy
    Member

    As mentioned above, to install the 49 to 53 8BA or 8RT or Merc flatty you have to either cut or remove the front "Y" bracket fender support. One alternative is to remove it and fab your own fender support since the 49-53 crank pulley will hit it. They bolt into holes already in the stock frame. The brackets you see in the photo are made from 3/3 x 3/4 angle iron. I recall that I also lengthened the "twisted metal" upper radiator supports, but can't remember why. Maybe it was because of the Griffen radiator. Bottom radiator hoses are copper pipe -chrome plated.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  12. Good thread! I'm putting one in my 40 pickup. Thanks.
     
  13. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,757

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The later 51-53 Merc pumps will work (which is what I'm running on the 8ba in my '39 p/u) as well using the
    u shaped spacer that Mac refers to but they are narrow belt. Drakes and C&G (and maybe the Early Ford Store as well) sell an 8ba thermostat housing for 1 3/4 " hoses but every time I checked they were not available. I ordered mine from Model Engineering/Just 32 and had them right away. Or you can use a flex hose that is 1 3/4" on one end and 1 1/2" on the other and use a reducer bushing to go from 1 1/2" down to 1 1/4" but the bushings are pricey, IMO. Never could find a flex hose the right length with 1 3/4" On one end and 1 1/4" on the other.
     
  14. Mac VP
    Joined: May 13, 2014
    Posts: 462

    Mac VP
    Member

     
  15. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,757

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks Mac for the clarification on the year(s) of the Merc narrow belt pumps! The fan assembly I'm running has a four blade fan which bolts on so the fan could be removed and used as an idler if running an electric fan. Don't know what it came off of but I was led to believe it was from a Merc.
     
  16. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,027

    19Fordy
    Member

    One more thought. If you decide to use the OFFENHAUSER 4 barrel manifold on your 8BA the generator mount on the intake is shifted 7/8 " to the driver side. This means the stock 8BA fan pulley bracket and pulley will be offset and the 8BA or Merc crank pulley will not line up with the fan pulley. Go here for discussion of this on Fordbarn with solutions.
    https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/show...take+manifold+generator+offset+problem&page=2
    Or, go with EDELBROCK intake or one that has the generator mount "centered".
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  17. hunterpowered
    Joined: Aug 4, 2013
    Posts: 3

    hunterpowered
    Member

    Thanks guys for the excellent information. What do you do with 40 trans starter cup? Mine is casted right in the bell part of the trans and when I go to put it on the other bell it will hit?
     
  18. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,966

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You must have a V8 60 in your '40. All '32-'48 21/24 stud V8s have the starter located on the oil pan. Don't think you can use the trans if it's V8 60, or would want to behind a 221"/239" flathead.
     
    blackbeard40 likes this.
  19. Boden
    Joined: Oct 10, 2018
    Posts: 747

    Boden




    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  20. 32Stoker
    Joined: Jul 1, 2015
    Posts: 382

    32Stoker
    Member

    I have a 49 8BA in my 37 Coupe that was built in the 50’s. Ditto on the 50 Merc bellhousing/clutch. Also recommend losing the stock vacuum advance Load-A-Matic distributor/carb set-up and replacing with mechanical (ie Mallory Dual Point and Stromberg 97’s). Use an truck radiator for more coolant volume. Mine is a 46 5 1/2 gallon unit.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.