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Technical Need Help - 63 Ford 170 no start

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Dan Scholz, Mar 5, 2020.

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  1. Dan Scholz
    Joined: Mar 25, 2019
    Posts: 15

    Dan Scholz


    I've replaced:
    • Fuel pump
    • Plugs and wires
    • Starter
    • Solenoid
    • Battery
    • Replaced points/condenser with Pertronix
    • Manual choke (no place to put the hot air choke tube on the headers
    Damn thing just won't catch. Any thoughts?
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,870

    squirrel
    Member

    Do you have compression? Fuel? Spark? If you say "yes", please describe how you tested for each of these.
     
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  3. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,593

    RmK57
    Member

    Was it running since you put all those carburetors on there?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  4. Dan Scholz
    Joined: Mar 25, 2019
    Posts: 15

    Dan Scholz

    Haven't tested compression yet.
    Fuel is spraying when the throttle is depressed.
    I have spark as well - grounded a plug and got an arc (and a shock).
     
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  5. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,870

    squirrel
    Member

    Was the engine running recently? What's the rest of the story?
     
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  6. Dan Scholz
    Joined: Mar 25, 2019
    Posts: 15

    Dan Scholz

    The Offenhauser intake and carbs were on when I bought it. I got all three running but not super well then I went down the rabbit hole. Thinking back in the order of things I think the problem may actually be the anti-foul inserts. Something about the video makes me think it's not getting the spark it needs but I'm definitely getting spark at the plugs (tested).
     
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  7. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,870

    squirrel
    Member

    Since it's trying, I'd suggest you do a few things in order.

    1. Check the ignition timing and firing order, a few times, very carefully, to make sure it's getting spark at the right time on #1, and the rest of the plugs are in order after that. Double check which way the distributor turns so you make sure they're all in right.

    2. Remove the plugs, one at a time, and install all NEW spark plugs (not the ones you removed from the engine), without the antifoulers. Then try to start it.
     
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  8. Dan Scholz
    Joined: Mar 25, 2019
    Posts: 15

    Dan Scholz

    First off - thanks for all of this!
    I know how to check the timing but the ignition order is a bit of a puzzle on this engine. When I got it, and it was running (although badly and only on one carb) I made a note of the order of the plugs because they weren't going to the corresponding spots on the cap. The order the were in is:
    Cyl - Cap
    1 - 4
    2 - 6
    3 - 5
    4 - 2
    5 - 1
    6 - 3

    How do I check / fix the firing order? Never had to do this on my previous l6 (67 200).

    I'm going to have to try to get the antifoulers out tomorrow - they're stuck in pretty good.
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  9. Falcon firing order.jpg This shows proper firing order and distributor orientation. The distributor turns clockwise.
     
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  10. BoogittyShoe
    Joined: Feb 18, 2020
    Posts: 330

    BoogittyShoe

    It didn't sound like the firing order is out of order. Let it sit (if it hasn't already) for long enough to let the air/fuel ratio return to +/- in the cylinders in case it is flooded or just too rich in the cylinders. (For those who didn't know (I didn't till later in life) "flooded" means that liquid fuel is bridging the spark plug gap, as opposed to just a rich mixture.)
    I didn't see any throttle movement after it started. Pump it a little as it starts and hold the throttle open a little.
    If that doesn't work, stuff rags in the outside carbs to seal off the air and see if it starts on the center carb. I couldn't see if the choke was closed. (Maybe on the back carb)

    PS: I didn't see that someone had posted the firing order.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  11. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,870

    squirrel
    Member

    With the firing order diagram above, make sure that when #1 cylinder is at top dead center, in the firing position, the rotor in the distributor is pointing at the #1 wire position on the cap.
     
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  12. Dan Scholz
    Joined: Mar 25, 2019
    Posts: 15

    Dan Scholz

    Update.

    Still haven't been able to get the antifoulers out gave them a spray of anti seize and going to let it sit for the day.

    Had to pull the distributor and adjust it, the rotor was pointing to the #5 wire on the cap.

    Got that all set up and tried to start it. Still no start and I'm getting some pretty big backfiring happening now. Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  13. NewGuyOldFord
    Joined: Jan 17, 2011
    Posts: 586

    NewGuyOldFord
    Member

    Still out of time.
     
  14. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 497

    jaracer
    Member

    Just change the wires on the cap. No need to pull the distributor.
     
  15. Dan Scholz
    Joined: Mar 25, 2019
    Posts: 15

    Dan Scholz

    I needed to pull the distributor to realign the rotor on TDC - it was way off.
     
  16. fresh hops
    Joined: Oct 19, 2019
    Posts: 47

    fresh hops

    It might be worth reaching down to the crank pully and see how much you can rotate it side to side, might have jumped timing.
     
  17. fordor41
    Joined: Jul 2, 2008
    Posts: 921

    fordor41
    Member

    Turn engine until #1 is at TDC of compression, remove dist. cap and mark on dist housing where rotor is pointing. place #1 plug wire at that mark and continue around the cap in correct order and rotation. You really don't have to have the rotor at #1 on the cap, just at #1 plug position
     
  18. Dan Scholz
    Joined: Mar 25, 2019
    Posts: 15

    Dan Scholz

    No play at all but on the crank pulley. Going to locktite the plugs into the antifoulers so I can pull them tomorrow. That way I should be able to feed a camera into the cylinder via the plug hole and get confirmation that tdc on the pulley is actually tdc.
     
  19. fresh hops
    Joined: Oct 19, 2019
    Posts: 47

    fresh hops

    You should be able to put a screwdriver down the sparkplug hole touching the top of the piston and watch it go up or down with the piston. Might want someone to turn the motor by hand while you watch the screwdriver and assure it doesn't bind in the hole. I have done this many times and it makes finding TDC or BDC easy
     
  20. Dan Scholz
    Joined: Mar 25, 2019
    Posts: 15

    Dan Scholz

    Still couldn't get the antifouler out of the #1 cyl but did exactly this in the #6 cyl and set the timing based on the number 6 at the bottom of the cycle.

    Still backfiring. Still not running.
     
  21. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,974

    sunbeam
    Member

    Watch #6 when the exhaust valve closes and the intake just starts to open you are very close to TDC # one check timing mark it could have slipped. Check the rotor and time from there it will be close enough to start.
     
  22. Dan Scholz
    Joined: Mar 25, 2019
    Posts: 15

    Dan Scholz

    Update: Success! Well mostly.



    Got it running again, thanks all for all of the help, I definitely learned/relearned a lot!

    Still running a little on the fast side with the occasional backfire through the carb if the timing is off too much, but now it's just down to fiddling with the timing and carb settings.
     

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