Need engine ideas for my 50 Ford for a cruiser

I have a 49 & 50 Fords . The 49 I want to build a gasser . The 50 Ford I want to enjoy driving around town . I have a 302 roller engine I was going to use but with the prices of gas going through the roof I am looking at some other options to use as a engine and trans . I know an O/D trans is good on the highways which I rarely ever use but a few time a year . So the engine I am going to mostly keep stock to save on gas . remember this will be a 2 ton car . I still have the 3 on the tree and a Ford 3 speed trans I can use . Would an early Ford 200 be a good choice or maybe a , hate to say this , a Ford V6 . I have even thought about a Ford 4 banger but not sure how well that would work . I really like the Ford 2300 and are durable and easy to find . I do have a Ford SROD 3 speed w/od that would work good with the engine .

What would you people use in a 50 Ford to drive around as much as you can but need to save on gas , so good gas milage is a must . I know the one rear has 4.11 in the 49 buy I do have a good Ford 8" rear with 2.79 gears in it I can use .
I really wanted to build a hot SBF or a Fe but the gas prices have change that idea . I want to be able to enjoy and drive it !

Any and all ideas will really be helpfull !

Retro Jim

 

302, low compression, a 2 barrel and highway gears.

 

find a clapped out crown vic, 4.6...overdrive and whatever rear they use....suckers get 25mpg......alot of the time.......probably get flamed for this, haven`t done it myself....but you wanna save gas.......what`id do if i was trying to save gas....

 

I,ve got a 50 ford with 302 cleveland & c4 with 2.75 diff & tall 15" tyres ,dosn,t accelerate hard but cruises real good up high .Getting 22mpg but this will improve when I swap the stinking 600 holley.

 

The MOST efficent? Put a diesel in it... Of course that's the wrong answer here on the HAMB.

There is a lot of logic buying a rusted out crown vic, and swaping out EVERYTHING... So yea, I'd probably go with that. I dont know the exact year, but some of the crown vic's have an aluminum front suspension crossmember thet's a lot like the Jag IFS setup, and I've seen a couple of them put into shoeboxes.

You could get the mod-V8, along with IFS, a complete rear end assembly [have to weld spring perches on it], A/C, P/S, hell, even seats and steering column.

Around here, ex-police crown vics with rust holes are going for under $2k.

 

well Newsomtravis is correct about 4.6 V8 gas mileage. Probably find a low cost one too. They get 24 mpg hiway in 5000 pound Lincolns, so you'll do better than that in your 3000 lb shoe box, just keep the hood closed.

 

Thanks for the ideas so far .
I won't use a 4.6 due to they problems they have and I have already worked on them . The highway MPH is due to the rear and the OD trans . I don't like FI either so that's a no way for me . I know they do have some decent power but I drive mostly in town and only do 50 or 55 for maybe 5 miles . I live in small town and most of the spped limits around here and where I drive it 40 to 45 .
I have an OD trans to use but curious on some other options on straight 6 cyl . I have a 2.79 Ford 8" rear to use so welding on spring perches doesn't bother me at all . I just want a grocery getter to drive and something easy on gas to enjoy cruising around with the wife . I have a 55 Ford that I am finishing up that has a hopped up 302 with a mean sounding cam and plenty of get up and go so that's why I want a driver that's easier on gas . When I want to go and beat the shit out of the streets I will bring out my 55 Ford .
Thanks for all the ideas !

Retro Jim

 

flathead.
if the price of gas is that important to you, ride the bus.

 

dont go with a 4 banger. a heavy car like that needs a little bit of HP to get moving, too little power and it'll chew through the fuel. cant comment too much on the late model yankee motors but a mild SBF or SBC wont be too thirsty as long as it's tuned properly(right carb etc.). OD and highway gears will be helpful too.

 

If you hardly ever drive on the highway, what's the reason for giving a shit about fuel mileage? I can see wanting maximum fuel mileage if you're going to be on the highway alot, but not if you're just farting around town. You say you don't like fuel injection...but you're considering V6's and 2.3's? Hell, a tuned-up 223 with a 2bbl will get you around 20mpg on the highway with the right gearing and it will look "correct". Since you're not opting for a "correct" look, then skip the 2.3 and V6's and go with a small cube EFI V8, like a 5.0 from an 86-93 Mustang. There are easy to install harnesses out there for cheap nowadays making the retro-fit of a modern EFI motor simple. A stock 5.0 and AOD/T5 will get you upwards of 20mpg on the highway, and with plenty of grunt if you push the go pedal. Can't say either for a 2.3 or V6, except maybe a turbo 2.3 EFI.

 

id give the straight 6 a shot... had a 67 camaro with original 250 inline 6 and it would get 25 all day long.. plus you can still dress them up to look cool.. not so much with a 4.6 with wires and sensors everywhere.. plus no computer headache

 

I had a mustang, Florida Highway Patrol '88 model, at 120K miles it could still bang out 26 mpg on highway when driving sensibly.

 

If want a milage engine use a diesel from VW/Audi
A 1.9 TDI is a good chois in that case

But thats seams not good fora shoebox.

 

I do give a "shit" as you say about gas milage when I am "farting" around in town as you say ! Gas cost a lot and I do a lot of rural and town driving , no big cities newr me . I drive 98% there so yes I am looking for something that will be good on gas , PLUS being on disability really sucks and the one check a month I get doesn't go far on gas at $3.50 a gallon ! So yes I am looking for something that is decent on gas ! OH , I don't get the "correct look " thing you are complaining about . Just about all the hotrods built don't have the "correct looking engine " so what with that comment . I have seen many engines that are used and not one came with the car or look ! I am just asking for a simple idea and not to be bitched about how and where I drive or what correct look MY car should be ! BTW both the V6 and 2.3 were carb engine when Ford first brought them out ! I like carb engine and not EFI . That's my preference , OK !


obsolete zach , no busses in the country and I don't think they would like car parts being taken along for the ride either when I go to the swap meets !


fosheezie , I am thinking of a Ford 200 and keep the 3 on the tree I have in the 50 Ford already . If I could find a good running original 6 cyl I would use that but most don't keep them and scrap them . It was an original V8 flatty engine car . I have a good 3 speed trans now so that is an idea I have thought of doing . Thanks !


For the others comments on 4.6 , 5.0 , I do have a 5.0 and a 1970 -302 sitting here in the garage now ready for a rebuild . I was going to build the 5.0 roller for a gasser I wanted to build for the 49 Ford . So I am still looking at all the options that are out there . I just enjoy driving the older cars but they weren't all that great on gas .

If someone has a good 6 cyl. flat head I might be interested in that or trade some good parts or items for one . They just aren't around where I live . That's the problem when living in a small town but wouldn't trade it for anything !

Thanks for the ideas and help !

Retro Jim

 

A mild 302 with the right gears in the rear end and an overdrive trans should pull decent mileage and be dead nuts reliable. A guy ought to be able to buy an early/mid 80's Ford LTD (small one) with a 302 and od auto for chump change, drive it home, get the engine squared away and then do the swap and sell off the leftovers for scrap or parts.

But I'm starting to look wistfully at shoe boxes for a home for the 8BA I have stashed with plans for an AV8 in the works. Somehow a flathead powered custom sounds pretty interesting right now.

 

I would go with this...
i got a '57 chevy wagon and i plan on rebuilding the o.g. 283 and doing the same thing.
i too need something to cart the family around in and am getting tired of rollin' a minivan.

 

If you going with carbs, then a small v8 will get better MPG than a inline 6, due fuel distribution,,,inline sixes with one carb have bad A/f ratio distribution,,,v8's have much better A/f distribution.

9 to 1 compression ratio will get better mpg than 8 to 1 or less ( old 6's had like 7 to 1 )

roller cam engines get better MPG too. 302' have roller cams.

Parts and engines for a 302 ford are dirt cheap.

so get a newer stock 9 to 1 302 with the roller cam. Install dual exh. system witj straigh thru mufflers ( glass packs).

to get real good MPG with a inline you should go with FI.

I can't belive a shoe box ford with a light V8 ( 302 ) would weigh 4,000 lbs ( two tons ) I would guess more like 2,900 lbs.

also to get better MPG,,make the car lighter, strip all the chrome, remove the bumpers, get rid of the back seat, run a mini spare in the trunk, install ligh weight seats up front, get rid of that heavy radio. lower the car to reduce drag, No sun visor,,,run skinny radial tires. install a 2:40 or 2:50 gear, install a OD transmission,,,run a stick shift. No power steering and No AC. Only put in 10 gal of gas at a time,,gas is about 7 lbs a gallon,,,so a 20 gallon fill up vs a 10 gallon is over 70 lbs.

If you replace the oil pump,,DO NOT install a high pressure or hi volume pump,,.just use a stock pump.

do not idle the engine ,,, shut it off at stop lights

 

The flathead should give you 18 mpg.
I,m running a 8ba with c4 and 2.78 gears and thats what i,m getting.

 

also a 302 v8 shoe box will sell faster and for more money that a 6 cly. shoe box.

if you have Natural gas in your house you can really save money by using compressed natural gass,,,no road taxes and it is cheaper per btu.

also CNG LOVES high compression ratios, cause it is REALLY HIGH OCTAINE.

they have CNG carb s for efi manifolds.

just fill up at up your house with a home compressor.

http://ewsews.com/cnghome.html

http://cngunited.com/


search e-bay motors for used CNG stuff

 

solution to high gas prices - ninja 250 lol

 

back in the late 70's (?) when there was another big gas crunch lots of 4's and 6's installed in all kinds of rides. since you have a couple of rearends and an overdrive 3 speed figure out what engine will work with them. in a small town hard to figure that you would be putting on lots of miles each month. a bunch of start and stop uses up more gas than highway miles. do research on what small motor has a good bottom end power. may need to have some valve /head work done to give more breathing relief. two barrel minimum on aftermarket manifold, headers, good ignition set up, etc. think about engine weight also.

 

An inline 6 has more bottom end than a v6. Also during the oil embargo people swapped to natural gas. The engine runs cleaner (no carbon build up). Personially Id keep the flathead v8, you allready have a 3spd/od. Just play with the rear gears. Have the best of both worlds!

 

running 2:40 gears with a o.d. trans would make the overdrive unusable. You want something like a 3:50 rear gear with a small block and o.d. trans. Mike

 

Thought about a buick v6 with a 200R4?

 

a lot of RWD gm cars, olds 88, caprice, came with OD trans and 2:41 and 2:56 gears,,,trucks with taller tires came with 3:08's

 

A buddy of mine has a 4.6 in a 49 Business coupe with a 5 speed and he gets 25 mpg.
I would think an efi 302 would do pretty good. Trouble is with a heavy car around town, stop and go, nothing is going to do that good, even a tiny engine takes a certain amount of energy to get the thing rolling.

 

That may be true, but, and this is a big but, if were talking about fuel economy you would probably see no mpg improvement in a vehicle geared like that. In order to take advantage of an over drive ratio you need to have enough torque to move the vehicle at the same rpm in overdrive that you would run in your normal 1:1 top gear. Other wise you have to push the pedal down harder (more fuel) which negates any mpg advantage. Most trucks I've dealt with over the years and this includes many makes and models have been 3:55 and numerically higher, i.e. 3:73, 3:91, 4:10, ect. without o.d. . My v6 Honda Passport (SUV) with o.d. has a 4:10 rear gear. In the end it's basic physics. My sons 67 Galaxie is 4000#'s, 500hp/500 lb/ft healthy 428. it cruises at 90 mph with 3:50 rear gears in fifth (.64 o.d.) @2600 rpm on 27" tires and makes 16.5 mpg at that speed (20+ at 65mph). No way you could do that with a small block with the same rear gear much less with numerically smaller gear i.e 2:40/2:50, and the smile per mile factor is a whole nother story. Mike

 

I already have a 5.0 roller engine that I was going to build and use in my gasser . I could rebuild that engine and use a Comp torque cam which is suppose to give more torque and better gas mileage . Use a small 570 Street Avenger 4bbl or just use a 400 cfm Holley 2 bbl . I have a Mustang rear with 2.79 gears in it . I have a SROD 3 speed with O/D which will work ok if I don't beat the shit out of it , if not I do have a good 3 speed trans that I can use with the 3 on the tree that's in the 50 Ford . I should get around 18 mpg in town & rural roads or better .

I remember back in about 1978 I had a 1967 BIG Chrysler town & country station wagon witch was a mile long if you know what they were and that wagon was fully loaded with a 383 and auto trans and highway rear . I went to Ocean City one time with the car full because we were going to stay for a week , I checked the gas milage and we got 20+ MPG due to the big engine and that highway rear .

So with a few thinking along that line that I can build a 5.0 roller engine with a better cam than stock which I already have a couple of and if I use the rear in the car now or swap the 2.79 rear in , that combo just might be the ticket to work . I can get a 3.00 gear from a friend which would probably be better in the lone run with a standard trans and a O/D .
I guess I really don't have anything to loose since I have just about all the parts sitting in my garage now for that 50 Ford .
Thanks for all the really good ideas !


I did have an idea about building a Propane engine but the propane still costs more than the gas does I think . High octane and super clean burning . I know they make the conversion for a GM 350 because I drove one in a delivery truck for 17 years .
Has anyone done a conversion on a Ford 5.0 roller engine yet ?
Just a thought !

Retro Jim

 

jim, do not over do this,,,use the stock roller cam , and take that $200 and buy a tuneable carb,,,not a holley or a stock 2 barrel, something like a afb or quadrajet type carb with lots of springs, mettering rods, jets, available. run a vacuum advance distributor. just re-ring and bearing your best 302, replace the timing chain and install a stock pressure and volume oil pump,,,clean up the ports in you heads,,,DO NOT use thicker than stock head gaskets,,it wil lower your CR,,,if you can get thinner than stock head gaskets Do so it will raise your CR.
run 5w-30 oil
here is a link for fixing the Exh. port flow,,cheap just work.

http://www.mre-books.com/ford/engines/cylinder_heads.html

about $90 bucks for rings gaskets bearings

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Ford-260-302-4000-4060-Bore/products/1078/

carbs

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Edelbrock-Performer-Series-Carburetors/products/1339/

 

the stock ford roller cam is much high lift than a stock flat tappet cam,,,so it is already a bigger cam stock

about .440 lift and 204 212 duration


http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/5-0l-tech/58803-stock-5-0-ho-cam-specs.html