i have been working on my 56 f1 and have finally recieved my engine cross member and am ready to install the engine so that i can start to re assemble the truck. currently it is down to just the fram with no body and am not real sure how i should go about finding the right place to install the cross member so the engine fits between the radiator and fire wall. the motor is a 460 with c6, and i am also wondering if i need to take out the original crossmember that the former trans mounted to. any help or advice would be appreciated travis
A couple of things to ponder.... With the F-100s (it's not a F-1 ) there is a fair amount of room to play around. The best method, in my opinion, though not the easiest, is to start by doing what you did...strip it to the frame & suspension, and hopefully finalizing all those details first. Pick an arbitrary place/position that looks good & is centered. I would try to put the balancer of the 460 slightly in front of where the Y block's balancer was, around 1" or so, to begin. Mock the engine/trans up, set the angle to correspond with the rear axle (U-joint angle)with whatever exhaust manifolds or headers you intend to use. With the 460/F-100 combo, your big stumbling block is usually right there, especially if you are using the Volare-type front suspension & box. Don't even think about waiting until later to figure out the manifolds/headers/exhaust.....many before you have tried, & failed miserably. You can slightly offset the engine/trans if necessary; I'd avoid it to stay away from moving the rear axle if needed. Also, finalize your oil pan. Assuming that you have a working setup so far, I then would temporarily set the cab in place, with the mounts & cab arms...& then install the column to see what new grief you have just earned. You may find that you'll need to either A) move the engine/trans; B) use a variety of U-joints/shafts/carrier bearings on the steering shaft; C) junk the manifolds/headers that passed step #1 for something else. Keep a close eye on the manifold exits as well...depending on what you have, they tend to point directly at the frame & may not have clearance. If everything's all good thus far, stick the radiator support in place, along with the radiator, & see what's needed. Follow that with the inner fenders, which may need to be slightly trimmed depending on exhaust choice. At this point you can check everything once again & fab your crossmember into place. I would weld it, if it's the bolt-in type. Some advice, if I may, from one who's done the swap....1) Box the frame. The original frame is designed to twist more than you would expect, & even a base smogger 460 can cause some interesting & unpleasant effects when standing on it. These trucks tend to be very squirrelly with lots of power. They sometimes go in unscheduled directions. 2) The frame was designed to have the transmission bellhousing side mounts...in other words, the bell is an integral part of the frame & carries chassis loads. Take it out & you remove a fair proportion of strength....which should be added back in, somehow. Either fab a GOOD crossmember for the trans, or buy one...the Trans-Dapt cross is kind of cheesy. I'd check with No Limit Engineering, Industrial Chassis, or someone else, if you want to buy one. 3) I would use, at the minimum, the Ford Racing rear-swap oil pan kit (which is really a late 460 truck pan), OR, preferably, a Canton, Milodon, Moroso pan...something with baffles. The stock 460 pans don't control oil very well....the front sump pans are horrible, & you don't want to use one of them anyway....the Ford kit is at least complete (some vendors sell used "kits" on eBay which are usually similar), but it's not really a performance pan. If you intend to stand on it, (& why else would you drop in a 460 ) you'll be happier in the long run. Good luck!
thanks for all the info i will definatly be looking at this alot more closely than i first intended. i already have the trans cross member and engine cross member and had planned on welding the engine cross member in place. i am actually using the stock front suspension and steering as long as the collumn isnt in the way. the motor came out of a late model ford econoline van so im assuming that would be a truck pan like the one your talking of. the motor was in another 56 i bought for parts but the previous owner made his own mounts and the frame wasnt in that good of shape. this is why i chose to not use that frame. when thge motor was in the other truck it looked as thought the steering and exhaust were going to work fine and would have no problems running headers.
I'd put the motor in the truck before taking it all apart....but I suppose it's too late for that now. Usually you need to have everything there, steering box/column, radiator, exhaust, firewall, transmission, fan, etc and jiggle it around until you find the one place that it will clear everything and still sit level and parallel (side to side) to the frame. Anything that is not installed on the frame when you set up the mounts, will cause you grief later.
squirrel- so you think i should put the cab back on the frame to determine where to set the engine? i thought about that just wasnt sure if i was overlooking an easier way.
Sounds like a lot of work....and it is...I don't know what to say, I always get that stuff done before pulling it all apart, or do it after the rest is all put back together.
Squirrel, for the most part on other vehicles I'd agree with you on keeping it together, but the 460/C6/F-100 is a little different. 1) The 460 is so wide that there are frequently steering issues, especially since most F-100s get IFS installed as well. It's profoundly easier to do it with the front sheetmetal off, though the cab can stay. But, since it's off...anyway, I put it back on in step #2. 2) With a friend's help, & a little knowledge & pre-soused bolts, the front sheetmetal can be pulled in under 30 minutes, or reassembled. The fender height is a PITA to work over. 3) With the C-6 & crossmember issues, it can be easier to pull the cab to make it all work. At any rate, it's certainly possible to do it with everything together, but I like to have them at least partially apart. Other preferences may vary. 1LIFE, The stock front axle & steering are usually a easier fit than the Volare/etc. with the 460. That's not to say the aftermarket stuff won't work, just that there's work involved; the stock box/axle generally fit without having to do much in terms of the exhaust. You may find, eventually, that you want to consider monos on the front....they ordinarily ride fairly poorly, but the 460 loads them down nicely. The van pan is usually more of a center sump than a rear sump. It's not a particularly good pan but it may work OK...check axle clearance.
I agree the front sheetmetal should be off when you're actually working on it.... the point I'm trying to make is that with a big block you need the engine to sit back as far as it can so you can fit the fan in, and that kind of requires the firewall to be there. also with the stock steering you may need to move the engine over to the pass side a bit to get the exhaust to clear, if the steering is in the truck then you can see how far it needs to go, or decide that you'll have to go with some other steering setup and maybe put the engine in centered and worry about it later. Ford front distributor engines are a pain, there's always an oil pump below that distributor somewhere trying to interfere with a crossmember or somethign.
I think we're saying the same thing & using different terms. I did say he needs to have the front suspension & steering box in place, first. The truck Y block (or 6, for that matter) water pump & fan assembly, plus timing cover, sticks out so far that a 460 with ordinary accessories is actually a little shorter, measured from the main surface of the block. The block itself is a little longer. If he spots the balancer forward that 1", he should clear the firewall OK. But, he certainly can put the cab on first, no sweat. I did mention that, too...I swear... 1LIFE, BTW, if the C6 has the stiffening ribs on the top of the case, you may need to modify or completely remove them; depends on how high the engine is placed.
40 standard- maybe true but i already had the 460 and there is no replacement for displacement. squirrel & homespun- thanks for all the input i do believe im following along with you and actually though of something while reading all this. im at an advantage over most people in that i have one frame down to nothing and another complete truck minus a motor. i think im going to go take some measurements on the complete truck from firewall to rad support and that should give me an idea of where the motor has to sit. all the susp and steering is still on the bare frame so i am able to work around it to make sure everything fits.
Having a truck to measure will be a big help, although there can be surprises with how the engine fits up to the firewall.
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