The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by bamabucket, Feb 17, 2010.
Winch and a v nose.. the v nose will pull better than the flat nose especially in a head wind..
winch and a v nose. I watch a fellow load a 32 roadster with bigg'n on the back.. He puts it in the trailer each night. The remote winch makes it easy. The v-nose is much better to pull than the flat nose. And use sway bars. This is how I use sway bars on a borrowed 24 ft hallmark with my 37 inside and a ton of mother in law's funiture. I drop the trailer onto the ball so the ball latch closes but before lowering it further I hook up the sway bars as snug as I can get them by hand. I then lower the trailer tongue weight onto the truck .. the trailer pulled super...in the past I used to lower it and then hook up the sway bars and it was hard to handle with lots of sway.
After all the good advice, I decided it was time to quit fooling around and pull the trigger. I went out to the local Pace dealer this afternoon and gave him a deposit on a 20' Pace Rallye V-nose with the 96" loading door. I will mount the wireless control winch on the floor in the front and may even have time for a couple of beers while I slowly load it. I had gotten a price from him and then a better one from Dorsey Trailer Sales in Georgia for the identical trailer. I called the local dealer and told him about the lower price (about $1,000 less than his) and he said the Dorsey guy couldn't sell it for that. He contacted Pace and they said the price was for auto hauler special they were running and he could get the same price. Pace was supposed to notify their dealers but missed him somehow. I went with the local dealer so I wouldn't have to drive to Georgia and would have a local contact if there was a problem. I could have saved shipping by picking the trailer up in Georgia, but decided it was worth some extra to pick it up here since I am so inexperienced. I would like to have an aluminum trailer but just can't afford it.
I am going to get the Equl-I-Zer hitch but will order it on line. I think I need it because the Avalanche is the 1/2 ton model The local dealer has it but said his price is about $300 more. He said I should get it on line and he will help me set it up when I pick the trailer up. I know the hitch should be set up to bring the tow vehicle back to level or slightly below - I guess too much tension would make the back of the truck too light.
Roger 37, you are absolutely right about the inside dimensions of the trailer. The problem is not with clearance once the car is in, but just getting it in through the loading door. Once inside, I will only be able to get it forward to a point where the back wheels will hit the inner wheel wells. The front wheels and the large turnouts on my sprint style headers will fit between the wheel wells. I am concerned that I may not have enough tongue weight, but intend to get one of the tongue weight scales mentioned by pwschuh and think I will have enough other stuff in the nose to get the right balance -10 to 15% of the trailer weight on the tongue?.
I too have a very poor place to store the trailer. I have a long narrow down hill driveway with a concrete pad next to the house that I must jog into. I have a front mounted hitch that I bought for that purpose and that should make it a lot easier - I hope.
You'll get it. And by the time you mount a spare, put the winch in front and load a small amount of tools, I dont think negative tounge weight will be an issue, Joe, Joe's Truck and Trailer Supply, 541-746-0646
Been trailering with enclosed trailers since 1973.
If you can get the car up to where the rear wheels are against the back of the wheel wells you will have plenty of tongue weight.
Do a 1,000 lb equalizer bar set up with one friction sway control. You will do just fine.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with an equalizer hitch. The hitch on the AV.. should have enough capacity for your new trailer. There should be a tag on the hitch. The scale idea is wonderful. There won't be any question about hitch weight. I'd weigh the whole rig on a Cat scale just for fun however.
Once you get everything together I'd hitchup and head over to a parking lot for a little practice. Maybe get a couple soccer cones just for drill. Then a trip around the city belt line. Might as well 'cruise' with the new trailer. You will get a little feel for the extra weight and how it handles in traffic before you hit the road. You can also try different loading on the hitch. Follow the instructions. You may need a small hyd. jack...the roll around kind that everybody has. I have a nice pocket in the trailer where I keep mine.
Go and get a nice air gage. Get the truck kind as it can get to the valve stems in any position and is very accurate. You should probably air up the tires to their rating. At least the rear ones. The AV. will ride a bit harder but you will have less sway. An air compressor is nice but not really necessary as you can always air up at the gas stations. Check the spare tires too. Look in the wallet for the AAA card haha. Do review your membership for towing etc.
You would think we having a class at school here.....just go have fun safely.
And above all, set up your electic brake controller to stop you properly. Try some hard stops to make sure you will be prepared in case you have to. The controller is the key to good stopping power, and you will set it differently for running loaded or unloaded. Always remember your stopping distances will be much greater pulling a trailer and drive accordingly.
My Model A went in my 20 ft. haulmark the same way....I just ran the tire up to the back of the fender well and it pulled fine. My model a weighs more on the rear axle than the front axle too.
I got a 24' aztex trailer new for $4500. It has brakes on one axle and I really want brakes on the other one to help with stopping. Make sure you get one with a metal reinforced floor. There are some really cheap trailers out there. I cal lem 50-50. They look good from 50 feet or 50 mph.....
Bad plan. especially if you don't have experience. The side size is a wind catcher. The post about the tail wagging the dog is right on loaded or empty in a big slab sided trailer. You may not live to regret the decision. You NEED the sway control.
I use a cam style and wouldn't tow without it. I have driven big trucks for over twenty years in all weather conditions. You need sway control.
Also you need two spares. trust me. No fun sitting on the side of the road when one takes the other out.
and a jack that will lift the loaded trailer to change said flats.
Get the Equilizer hitch. I pulled a 24 ft Haulmark with my half ton Ford short wheel base van and no troubles at all. Check around RV dealers. They often have used hitchs. I gave $150 for mine.
That was a steal for the "Equilizer" brand weight distributing hitch
This is my weight distributing, sway control setup. It took some adjusting to get it right but now it tows like a dream.
Also when you are towing check your tires regularly and at every stop. This was one we caught.
More good advice about some things I hadn't even thought of like the two spares and the AAA coverage. I have AAA plus, but don't have any idea if it includes towing. I have checked with my car insurance carrier and they will add coverage for the trailer when I get the VIN and other info. The two spares is not only a good idea, but may help to weight the nose if necessary.
The trailer has brakes on both axles and somehow I had the impression it was required. It may be just on certain sizes and weights. I will practice setting the controller for both empty and loaded conditions and get used to the extra weight that will need to be stopped.
The dealer suggested that I come to his yard when the trailer is delivered and check out the tongue before I order the WD hitch. He said he hadn't ever ordered a Pace Rallye with a V-nose and he wasn't sure how much of the the tongue would be covered by the nose, which could require different brackets for the WD hitch arms. I don't intend to tow the trailer at all without the WD hitch.
I had planned on several practice runs with the empty and loaded trailer, as well as backing practice. I have already weighed the Avalanche and T-bucket, and the truck scale will be my first stop with the empty trailer on the way home from the dealer. The next weigh-in will be with the loaded trailer and I will try to estimate the additional weight of one passenger and all the other stuff we will be taking.
This has been a great trailer and towing school - this is classroom part that must be followed by the hands-on practice.
You are right that a front mount hitch can help with maneuvering in certain situations. I use one sometimes. There is a little hassle factor with parking, unhitching, and rehitching at the front, depending upon how much room there is to do this in your neighborhood street. And remember that you won't be able to see anything because you (in the driver's seat) will be too close to the trailer to see around it. Got to have someone on the outside guiding you. I use a walkie-talkie or handheld (FRS) radio with my wife when I'm doing this, or even regular backing. I'm ALWAYS in communications with someone behind me who is watching when I back up. Things can go very wrong very quickly.
While this is a good set up
this type will not work with a V-nose ... there is NO room for the frame brackets on a V-nose
A V-nose has a pin welded to the frame .
On my Pace with the V-nose ... I just use a small floor jack and jack the E-Z lift bar up in place at the chain end and then hook the chain eye in the pin. Place the washer on and then the safety clip ... done deal.
You can also see the EAZ - Lift sway control brackets ( in black ) on the frame. I have a sway control on both sides. I use a set up like this ... but without the frame mount brackets. The EAZ Lift sway controls are like shock absorbers of sorts. They will allow movement ... BUT slowly and gradually.
As for when you have the T loaded in the box ... I strongly suggest crossing the tie downs ... like this ( BOTH the front and rear )
Once you determine the correct location for your T while towing, I suggest you place a 2 X 8 on the floor in front of the tire and then a piece of duct tape in front of the board. This tire stop allows you to locate the T ... in the same place ... easily ... time after time
The board is easily left in place or removed if you have another use of the trailer. And the tape allows easy placement of the board ...
Good tips for the tie downs and tire stop. The problem with the lack of open space above the tongue for the WD bar brackets with the V-nose is just what I was concerned about when I talked to the dealer while making my deposit. It looks this would be the same problem with the chain type as well as the Equl-I-Zer, which uses a saddle type of bracket. I like your solution - not only is it relatively simple, but the chain type of WD hitch (even with the added sway control) may be cheaper than the Equl-I-Zer.
Since you had to weld the chain pin the the tongue, I was wondering if the Equl-I-Zer bracket could be welded there? Another idea would be to drill holes in the tongue and bolt the bracket on - would that compromise the tongue strength any more than drilling the holes for the sway control balls?
Equl-I-Zer addresses the V-nose problem with special instructions that say the hitch will work with most V-nose trailers but that a modified installation method is usually required. This method is to mount the brackets from 27" to 32" back from the coupler, although 32" is optimal. They go on to say that this may not work because 27" is the minimum distance for the bracket mounting. I wonder if the hitch would not work as well if you had to mount the brackets forward of 32"? They say that assistance for other options is available if you contact them. I may contact them and just see what those options are.
No welding was done to the Pace Trailer by me.
It came from Pace with the pin already in place.
I already had the sway controls and the weight equalizers lift bars prior to buying the V-nose. I had the setup on my prior flat nose Pace trailer. It worked great on the old trailer too.
I will hook mine up ... and take a photo of the complete set up and rig ... in a few days. It is raining here today.
This is a different question and may be off message for this thread, but I thought I would post it here anyway. I just read a post on my trailer question thread on the Avalanche owners club forum, and a club member warned me that you had to stop at the truck weigh stations on the interstate when you were towing a car trailer, even if you are not a commercial hauler. He referred to a post on a Camaro forum where a guy had been stopped in NC and was given a warning ticket for not getting weighed at the truck station. The NC law appears to apply to private vehicles if the total weight of truck and loaded trailer is over 10,000 pounds. Has anyone ever had experience with this in NC or any other state?
I've pulled my car trailer in these states and never had a problem like that. Mi., In., Ill, Ia., Wi., Mn., SD., ND.,Mt., Wy., Ne., Mo. Oh., Ny., Vt. In Canada I've been in Ontario and Manitoba. What I've been told is that as long as you're hauling for yourself, not for hire, you don't need to stop. It's really no different than pulling a travel trailer. What that guy in NC claimed would have to apply to that situation also and I would have heard of that on a travel trailer board I'm also on.
That seems logical and what I thought before the Avalanche guy dropped his warning on me - he didn't relate a personal experience but was very emphatic. I'll go with a very experienced tower like you and will probably get similar comments from other HAMBers.
I haunt at least 6 diesel truck boards. Many of the guys are commercial. The rules are so confusing that even the troopers don't know everything. For the most part you are an RV. If you are under 26,000 GVW and licensed for the load, you will be ok. Just make sure the tires are up to the load, saftey chains crossed and connected, break away is hooked up and operational, brakes work, and the TV is not overloaded according to the sticker on the door/body and your driver's license is up to date.
As long as you drive safely, don't speed, use signals, try to stay to the right where possible you most likely will not get stopped for anything.
The exception seems to be Calif and FLA. Frankly I couldn't give much advice there without going to their DMV. There are all kinds of stories floating around, most of which are questionable.
From my own experience, I stopped at a weigh station in Wis with my new goose neck trailer and dually. The guy asked me if I was commercial and I said no just my daily driver and new trailer. He basically told me get moving and not to bother stopping as I was an RV and it was not necessary to stop.
I also had lunch with a Minn trooper and county sherrif. They both told me it was not necessary to stop at weigh stations unless I was commercial. Just drive safely.
I am licensed for 15k on the truck and 12k on the trailer. I am considered an RV so even the 26k doesn't apply....so I'm told. The truck actually weighs about 7,500 and the trailer normally goes about 10,000. All the tires are rated far above the actuall weight each carries. I do carry the flares,triangles, fire extinguisher, chains and other OTR equipment. Just because it makes sense to have the stuff available. I just watch for load conditions for the road and especially parkway limits. I'm way heavier than you are so you should not have problems. Get your state DMV book and follow it.....if you can. haha I keep one in the truck....like a comic book.
I have towed my trailer in both of those states without a problem.
In California ... you MUST stop @ the state line regardless ... but they just want to see in the trailer ... and ask if you are hauling fruit. No fruit equals No problem.
This varies from state to state. I used to haul a 32' enclosed trailer cross country. If I got stopped for not weighing in, I just told them that I wasn't aware I had to. In WA state they don't want you to hassle them with a private haul. Commercial, yes, private, not at all. Always got away with it.
In response to two questions, If the pin was welded on at the factory, it would be good enough for me. I have never seen that before as far as means of attaching a weight distribution bar, very neat, other than carrying a jack. You can weld the equalizer bracket directly to the frame and there is nothing wrong with that, it would be A OK. On chain style bars the hanger brackets are designed to be mounted so the chains are vertical when the trailer and truck are in a straight line. If you vary and an inch and a half or so forward or back, that is fine. If you mount them more than that far away from keeping the chain vertical, as you turn the bars move for and aft and the chains will bind, I wouldn't do it.
Towing any trailer in CA you are limited to 55 MPH and that sucks
maybe this has been brought up but even with a wide door the wheel wells inside the trailer are going to be cutting down on your with by 20 inches.will this give you the room you need.
The posts about not having to stop at the truck weigh stations do confirm what I had assumed. The Avalanche post referred to a post on a Camaro forum, and the incident discussed there could have easily been misunderstood. You all know how it is when a story gets retold and can change a little each time. That is good advice about making sure everything (especially safety related items) is up to snuff and driving conservatively. My T-bucket could probably be ticketed for a number of violations (even in Alabama), but I have never been stopped. I drive it a lot on the street and the cops can obviously see it - it is pretty hard to ignore a fenderless purple T-bucket with fairly loud pipes. I drive it very conservatively and I guess they just don't want to hassle me. It may be different in other areas. I'm sure the same thing will apply to pulling the trailer.
D.R., the issue of the distance between the trailer fender wells has been discussed. The wide rear tires won't fit between them, but the front of the car will.
Here are a few photos of the 1,000 lb lift bar hooked to the PIN
And here is the other side of the trailer, shown with the sway control mounted,
I have the trailer turned a little to make the photo of the sway controller easier to see.
And here is the Pace, hooked up and ready to go.
Notice how the trailer sits almost level ... ( the trailer is empty ... )
The lift bars are lifting a little bit but not so much as to cause a problem. With a adjustable height hitch ... it is very simple to get the trailer to sit almost level ...
With the car loaded in the trailer ... it sits very level with the hitch where the ball sits being about 1 inch lower than level. I have found it to pull the BEST that way.
I am going to LOOK at another 32 Ford tomorrow ... hoping,
I ... MIGHT ... need the trailer.
That setup looks better all the time - it may be the best way for me to go. I didn't specify that my trailer have the WD chain pin when I ordered it, but I suppose it (or the Equl-I-Zer bracket) could be welded on by the dealer or someone else. I hate to modify a new trailer but it looks like it is unavoidable.
Hope your look at another look at a deuce pans out. A pair of deuces sounds pretty good to me.
With a a rig that nice I can't see how a '32 would not follow you home.
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