The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by daddio211, Sep 13, 2012.
Stalling? Nope, not me!
Did I misspel, or are you still stalling
I was wondering where that came from. JW
Okay, hadn't been to Bob's in weeks since I picked up Tim's roadster body a few days before GNRS. Wow, too long.
Finally made it up this evening and hung out for about an hour. Bob has all of the major bodywork completed and the body is now in high build primer, along with the deck lid.
Driver's door has been adjusted, fitted and is near perfect. The passenger door (if you remember the Swiss cheese battered and bruised POS) will need a lot of work still. In fact, it's probably going to have to be cut in two, flattened, shrunk, lengthened very slightly and welded back together. Should be fun!
Here's a few pics from today.
Eric, that looks amazing and i sense those tires turning soon. JW
This is going to be amazing when it is done. I'm not sure how you managed to stay away so long, don't think I could do that. It will soon be time to get to work blocking it, but that time can't go by fast enough. Anxiously waiting to see it completed.
Thanks guys. Dick, I hate taking so long between visits, especially when I'm only 20 or so minutes away. Two businesses, kids, grandkids, new house, etc. keep me preoccupied.
Last night Bob again apologized for taking so long. I told him if I had been building it, it would still be yellow, on the beat up A chassis, with the polished Weld wheels. I definitely prefer more hands on with my cars but time just isn't allowing it right now. Hopefully I'll get a little more time in the near future. My next several cars will be built primarily by me with help from friends.
I understand how life can get in the way of doing some of those fun things, I am trying to juggle time between our house and my project car too. Unfortunately the car has taken the back seat for far too long, I have good intentions of working on it a lot this year. Good luck getting everything done that needs to be done and finding some time to get over to Bob's and helping get it finished.
Thank you my friend. Once my shop is built, the T is done and my Shoebox is drivable I'll be able to focus on my own projects a little more.
Bob called me late this afternoon with good-news-bad-news. "Gimme the bad news, man."
In typical Bob fashion he said, "The good news is the drivers door fits great. The bad news is the passenger door... well, you better come take a look."
So I headed towards Bob's, pausing only to grab a California burrito to go, as I hadn't eaten all day. Mmmm... steak, fries, salsa, guacamole, all wrapped up in a flour tortilla!
You may recall that the passenger door looks like it was shot with a 12 gauge. We knew it needed work, and in fact, I think I mentioned we may need to split it and lengthen it some to fit the door opening just a week ago. We also knew the body had been hit in the front left cowl, down low. None of this was a surprise.
Drivers door for your review...
So about the cowl, I don't know how we never noticed it. We probably should have. Hell, we should have taken measurements and done some trigonometry and shit but we didn't. But now looking at it, in all of its primered single color glory, you can see that the hit the cowl took also pushed the subframe ever so slightly to the passenger side.
What does this mean? It means the passenger door fits like this...
We discussed several options, most of which were based around stripping the cowl down and straightening it "the right way". We discussed heating it and shaping it, and the likely results of heat travel and further work. Bob was even shopping online for a fiberglass body before I got there.
Hey Timmy, wanna sell that REALLY nice T body I brought you?
So Bob, with his infinite experience and wisdom was trying to figure out how to fix this and make it "right". I, on the other hand, was trying to figure out how to make it simple. See, I know a lot about bodywork but I totally suck at doing it. I have all the tools but good bodyworking friends don't let friends who suck at bodywork do bodywork, or something like that. I'd probably be a good high school shop teacher.
Remember Bob built the chassis to match the body contour? Well, if we start moving the cowl that all changes, right? Then we will probably end up with gaps and poor fitment and it'll never look right. The difference in the shape of the cowl, left to right, is so incredibly slight nobody would ever notice, so let's make the door fit the body, rather than the other way around. Bob looked at me like I was an alien.
The door skin is garbage and needs to be replaced anyway. Cut it out, cut out the inner panel, pie cut the door frame in a few places, heat, shrink, weld and VIOLA! The door should fit! Right?
I don't think Bob was happy with my suggestion, LOL. The more we discussed it though the more merit he saw in the idea. He said he couldn't see the forest through the trees.
He'll be working on this over the next few days then I'll have an update. In the meantime I fully expect you all to give me a ration of shit about my lopsided roadster, LOL. Guess it's a rat rod now!
Thanks for following along.
Yikes Eric, sounds like my T body which when I got it was 1 1/2" off kilter pushed towards the passenger side. The rear of the body at the center did not match the cowl center at all.
Luckily I caught it and rebuilt the entire rear part of the body and got it all lined up including the sub frame before I built the chassis and now everything lines up centered and square as it should.
I feel your pain, when I bought the body it looked great, it was probably patched together on a pair of wooden saw horses with no concept of what was straight.
It did look good however and sometimes it's tough to notice what is "off " until you dig into a project.
I'm sure Bob will sort it out for you and you will be the only one to know afterwards.
I like your style Eric. Just get it done and drive it. 25 years from now, only your kids will know that the T has an elongated entry.
Eric, im not sure if its the camera angle or my angled eye but to me the B pillar looks as if it curves in at the top and the line of the door top doesn't look that bad. Would be good if that's the case, im sure you have both checked that. JW
Ya nailed it brudder ! Cut the inner,relieve the outer, twist to fit (pie cut if necessary,) weld it up and it's done. No disrespect to Bob, but he's over thinkin it ! I'd have it back in prime in less than a day, and I think you know me well enuf that it would be.
And I'm the guy who lived in the forest who could see thru the trees.
That passenger door is cherry compared to the doors I started with on my current T project. Just cut the small tack welds where the skin wraps around the inner. You can probably bend the door into shape then. Maybe need to piecut a place or two on the inner if it won't go without heavy persuasion. But there should be no need to remove the skin, or get another door.
Next time, do all your fitting of components BEFORE you start the bondo/filler.
I feel your pain, it sucks after doing such fabulous looking work to find this problem. At this point in time, about the only thing to do is make the door fit the opening and then drink a few cold ones and forget about it, only you and a few of your friends will ever know, right?
Ha! Man, do I hear ya! I think seeing the car (when I bought it) as a complete car (minus engine/trans/radiator/driveshaft) may have clouded my perception a little. It was truly a complete car, albeit a little rough around the edges. Everything fit reasonably well, except the doors. We knew those would take some persuasion. Bob will nail it. I should really post pics of a few of the cars he's built, pretty cool stuff!
Ya know, I really did struggle with this. If we moved the cowl to the "right location" we'd have to redo the frame to some extent. I felt that this was the best way to do it "right" without having to redo the whole car. It just made sense to go this direction.
Thank you Stephane, I'll pass along your sentiments to Bob!
I think it's the camera angle. Since you brought it to my attention (and made me panic thank you very much) I looked back through other photos and think it's alright. If it's not... SCREW IT! LOL
You know Don, while contemplating the problem last night I thought, "What would Uncle Don do?" I really did. And I could hear your voice saying, "Eric? ERIC! What the hell are you thinking? Just cut that sumbitch here, here and here and be done with it! Shit, get out of my way and I'll fix it!" No doubt about it, you'd have it whipped out in short order. I still can't believe you built that blue '32 in what, 26 days?
Guys, that's no shit. Don built a COMPLETE '32 highboy roadster in less than four weeks. Bare chassis, bare N&N body, fresh engine. Car was complete, running, driving, wired and PAINTED. Went to Mangus for interior a few days later and was done in what, 31 days Don? Did I remember that right?
It blows me away what some guys are capable of turning into perfection. Watching that happen is probably the biggest reason I hang out here. Two that come to mind are the '32 3 window @adventurer built and the '50 Merc that was rusted up to the door sills... can't remember who built that, but his username was something with Model A in it.
I had asked about fitting the doors before filler. Bob was confident they'd be easy to fit, but I'm confident he'll still make it work. I certainly learned a lesson.
Agreed. Can I have a Pepsi for my cold one though and you drink a beer or three for me?
Thanks for the support guys. I contemplated sharing this at all, but this is all part of a build so why not? AND it's a pretty sizable hurdle too, but one we can overcome. One day I'll look back at this thread and think, "Oh damn, I forgot about that door and how I panicked!
Couple of days and it will be fine, I think you would be surprised how rough my door fit is on mine...but it fits the theme of mine. I, and I know you do too, trust Bob will tackle this and then think what was all that fuss about. JW
Are you planning on driving the roadster to Speed Week?
I like Coke over Pepsi JW
It'll happen Eric, just tell Bob don't be so anal of it, ya ain't buildin a Ridles or AMBR car, just dive into it.
Re: Those 32 builds, the blue 1 was done in 26 days, in Mangus's shop on the 27th and done on the 29th day and sold on the 31st day, to Rich Howell of Napa California (Who has become a great friend all these years) Last year @ LARS he said he's put over 45000 miles on it and only thing he's ever done to it is a new set of front tires and regular oil changes etc
We hope to. And I'll buy you a Coke on the drive!
Another bitchin' build!
I just measured the width of my RPU body at the top and out side of the B pillar and it is 45- 1/4 inches, not saying mine is right but it may be of reference. Looking at my doors and then yours, it appears the R/H door is correct (except the wonky bits) overall.
Or it maybe that eye of mine again. JW
Hey Eric. I had a hard time with my doors also. Things that I would check and double check with these body's. Make sure it is sitting very level. If you lift one rear corner just a little it can throw the doors off. And make sure your quarter panels are not pushed or leaning out just a touch. That was one thing I found on mine and the passenger door would not line up right. After I got it pulled out just a touch, everything was good. And sometimes when you bolt it down to your frame during assembly, things some times change. Gotta love these roadsters huh? Keep moving along. Mark.
Took this pic to compare doors etc, hope it can help. tried to get the same camera angle. JW
Jeremy, thank you for the measurement as well as the photo, it will help a ton!
Mark, I agree. I wasn't sure about doing the body work and fitting with the car NOT secured to the chassis but I'm not one to second guess experience. It is solidly secured to the body cart its on. He's doing a great job and has built many cars this way. Those have all turned out really nice so I'll take his experience over my "book smarts" LOL.
I'll add my bit of "experience". When I fit the doors on my RPU I had to do it 3 times. Once when the body was off the frame, then the second time when the body was mounted and bolted to the frame.
The third time was after the body was removed and later bolted back on.
Surprise the doors fitted like crap.
Seems like every time things changed.
So, I drilled my body mount cushions for metal crush sleeves and bolted the body down snugly. The rubber can still do its job but the mounting of the body is consistent in location and pressure on each mount so that things don't twist. Amazing how flexible these old bodies are.
Then I made the doors fit. ( Hopefully for the last time )
Now when the body is removed and put back in place everything is as it should be.
"Should be" are the definetive (sp) words.
Any other measurements you may need to check with just give me a shout. JW
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