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Projects My Shoebox build

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by Brentphx, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    More parts ordered- Vintage Air 70654-VUQ offset water necks, plug wires, radiator hoses, wiper blades, Newport Wipers motor, rear seat belts to strap the kids chairs in.

    Will start the rewire/12v conversion shortly, been too distracted to dig in. Anxiously awaiting the new radiator (US Radiator via shoebox-central). It should arrive just after the 12v/rewire project is finished, then it's time for AC. I'm figuring out the vintage air components now, should make the car quite drivable in this AZ heat. I have been browsing threads here for pics of under-dash ac louvers, have seen a few. I suppose it'll be time to test my metalworking chops and see how much I've forgotten. Matching the compound curve around the 50 dash will be tricky, the way it comes down around the radio. I think I can do it... might need to re-buy some tools though. Pics or build thread links of suggestions for the louvers are more than welcome!

    I hoped to make the cruise-in night this past Friday at shop a few miles away... I wanted to see what kind of work they do, life got in the way. Maybe I can make it this Fri. It's still too hot here to load the kids into the car without AC, they'd never put up with the wind in their faces for that long. Irony is that by the time I get the AC installed, it'll be nice weather here. At least it'll be ready for next year lol. The Goodguys show is coming up here, can't wait to drive down into the show... sure beats walking from the lot. It's been too long.
     
  2. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    I went out for a few miles today... it was a balmy 106 outside. I got to watch the temp creep up at lights but drop down once I was moving. I definitely need to swap that radiator out ASAP... this 64 year old core is just not up to the weather here! Once it cools off I need to see what thermostats are in it. Time for some real temp gauges too, I don't like watching an analog scale.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    I have been searching for quite a while this evening, perhaps it's just the phone app but I can't seem to find the threads I know I've read already. Let's say that I wanted to add overdrive and had the trans and wiring... Would I still need the 4.x:1 rear end to make it work right? I also found a maverick rear with 2.75:1 locally for cheap... am I correct in assuming that would lower rpms at cruising speed (but also slower off the line)?

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  4. old round fart
    Joined: Jun 9, 2008
    Posts: 134

    old round fart
    Member
    from Norman Ok.

    With a 2.75:1 rear you are correct about take off and cruise. I don't think you would need or want the OD.
     
  5. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    Thanks for confirming! I'm sure you're right on the OD... big expense to convert over for the same effect as trans or rear end swap. I find myself over-planning after reading so many great threads. I need to stop and take a step back... one project at a time lol. Wiring first so I can quit popping the hood and disconnecting the battery every time. Then cooling so I can drive without worrying.

    I still want a way to run dual temp in one gauge. There are a few threads about that and there was really only one promising link though it doesn't measure water temp it's still a tempting idea to try. Further reading from the Westach site shows the 2DC8-2 is actually the gauge I'd want... 100-375F CHT range instead of 700F. I have an email in to them to see if they have a dual water temp gauge since it's not listed on their site.

    **Edit: reply from Westach says that they do have a 12v 2" dual water temp gauge- 2DC3-7 100-260F. It's $121 plus the two senders at $35 ea. compared to generic autometer gauges at $60 ea x2 that come with senders.... $70 to have it on one dial... decisions decisions. At least there is an option!
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  6. grego31
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 451

    grego31
    Member
    from Sac, CA

    My car came with the overdrive and it was not wired up and the solenoid was missing, after checking prices I found that replacing the solenoid (expensive) and getting it wired I still would not being able to cruise at 60-70mph without it screaming. Plus when I checked out the transmission it was missing the reverse gear! The previous owner said he had problems with the transmission and removed the gear, said something about only going forward in life and never going backwards. I thought he was joking!
    Anyway, I put a Flat-O-Matic kit in it for a C-4 transmission and put in a 2:90 8" rear end and can now go 65-70mph at less than 2k rpm. A very good conversion.

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    Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
  7. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    Warning- parts and shipping rant. May be handy to have documented though, since the part #'s didn't come up for me in search before I bought mine.

    Wiring is about to begin, had some delays. While getting all my parts in a row for the next stage, I get an email from Sum-thingorother (suppose I'll not give their full name) that my Vintage Air Offset Water Necks (70654-VUQ) would be delayed again. Order placed 8/31, confirmation email on 9/1 saying they were suddenly backordered to 9/16, on 9/12 their site updated my order status saying they were backordered further to 9/19 without notification. I IM'ed to inquire and let them know I'll just be cancelling that order once I ordered them from someone else... when suddenly an hour after I get off the IM window with their rep... I get an email saying Shipped!

    Well gee... perhaps they weren't so backordered afterall. Fast FW to today, the box gets dropped off on my porch. When I open it though, it contains Offy branded boxes where the parts label is covered up with a blank sticker. I manage to see through the label when lo and behold it reveals Offy part number 5603496. I was afraid to order those initially since no one said they were the same part. Thank you to Speedway for having those priced at HALF and dropping them right in the mail for me today. The ones from the mountaineering related named company will be going back for a refund.

    TLDR;?? DONT buy the offset water necks 70654-VUQ that Vintage Air says you need for their AC kit, their reseller will charge you double and deliver you Offenhauser 5603496 water necks anyway.
     
  8. junkjunky
    Joined: Aug 19, 2009
    Posts: 110

    junkjunky
    Member

    You mentioned reading 6 volts everywhere with your multi-meter.That should be correct. You will need to go to the "amp scale" and open the suspected circuit and place meter in series, on the highest scale, the circuit with an amperage reading with everything turned off is the one to start chasing trouble in.
     
  9. _justakid_
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 108

    _justakid_
    Member

    Keep up the
    Good work


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  10. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    Moving in the right direction!! No more parasitic battery drain... I ripped out the unknown brand harness installed in the 90's (and kludged under the dash since) and put in a new 21 circuit 12v harness from Speedway. Also installed 100a alternator, new battery cables, Pertronix ignition, voltage regulator for the gauges, new reverse light sockets (now have 2 working reverse lights), fixed the horn and turn signals.

    [​IMG]

    I'm pretty sure I will not have any future use for the generator/bracket, the 6v positive ground to 12v negative ground converter cube, 12v horn relay, 12v headlight relay, and once I get the compressor/alternator bracket I will be listing the alternator bracket for sale... if anyone is interested PM me.

    Next step is to block the fresh air vents on the dash, plug the rest of the unused firewall holes. I will pull the motor and smooth the firewall properly eventually, but for now I just want to keep the CO and hot air out of my cabin. I am bouncing back and forth regarding removing the fresh air ducting all together or keeping it in tact but blocked in case someone wants to go back to vents if I ever sell the car.

    During the weekdays this week, I plan to drain the fluid and refill with the evapo-rust then leave it for a day or two, letting it run/warm up a few times... yay chemistry and thermodynamics. My new radiator is due in any time now, want to have a squeaky clean block for it to cool.
     
  11. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    Today's update... old antifreeze drained from the radiator, Evapo-Rust installed. The top holes in the radiator are pretty clogged (the ones that I can see and there's no reason that the others wouldn't be as well). Good thing the new radiator is being built (should be in the mail any day now??)

    When I opened the petcock to drain the radiator, it started flowing out dingy orange. I thought to myself 'hmm, I could've sworn I saw green antifreeze at the top... maybe they filled it with orange instead'... oh no, that was just the rust settled to the bottom. It started flowing green-ish soon enough. Once it stopped dripping, I spliced in a radiator flush kit to the heater hose and gave it a good 5 min flush with a few engine starts in there for good measure. The water was coming out mostly clear... mostly anyway.

    Gave it a lap around the neighborhood to warm it up, IR thermometer said the left head was 170-175 and the right one was 180-185. Now to let it sit... probably take it for another lap this evening if the kids want to go for a ride. Fingers crossed that this stuff works as well as it's made out to!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
  12. That all sounds like progress.
     
  13. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    UPS says the new radiator will be here this afternoon. In preparation, I removed the Evapo-Rust and flushed the block. Whatcha think... did it need it?? I kinda feel like it ate up some rust. The radiator looks much better but there are still chunks of non-metal blocking some of the tubes. If I were to run that rad, I would want it rodded out for sure. Anyone in Phoenix need a freshly flushed radiator? Low low price of 'get it the hell outta here'!

    Here's what it looks like before:
    [​IMG]

    And after:
    [​IMG]

    None of these 5 were clear before running the Evapo-Rust. I would've taken a before shot, but I didn't think my phone was going to do it... oh well... trust me, it was bad. What you can't see in this pic is that the core is now silver instead of brown.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
  14. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    Since I will need to run offset water necks when I go to install the Compressor/Alternator bracket and the system is already empty, I may as well install the offset water necks now. The radiator is nice and clean, the water pumps look great inside, but man... the heads are still nasty!! I love the zero degree thermostats that they were running!

    The pictures don't give the full 3D image, those hardened bubbles of nasty inside the water jackets were a surprise. I plan to go to Aluminum heads, so not a big worry. I took a very strong magnet and knocked it all out. UPS should be here any minute now with my pristine new radiator... I'll post a comparison pic in case anyone wants to see what the Shoebox-central radiator (ordered from US Radiator) looks like.

    [​IMG]

    Radiator removed
    [​IMG]

    Water pump post evapo-rust
    [​IMG]

    Radiator catching some rays
    [​IMG]

    Tank all cleaned out
    [​IMG]

    Edit: Pristine new radiator dropped off at my door in a big, padded box around 3p. The new radiator does NOT come with a petcock and the old cap will not fit. Finished installing the radiator at 5:30 just as everyone was getting home for the day.

    [​IMG]

    The offset necks caused an issue with the dress hoses, a quick trip to AutoZone found me a hose that fit and had two 90's in it that I could cut out. While I was there I grabbed the HELP brand petcock and a 13 lb cap.

    Before:
    [​IMG]

    After:
    [​IMG]

    And one final overhead shot.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
  15. LuckyFordGuy
    Joined: Jun 13, 2008
    Posts: 277

    LuckyFordGuy
    Member

    Yes that is a nice car just drive it do not spent lots of money just have fun Rog
     
  16. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    Got to go for a nice long spin today... temp stayed at just above the halfway point, didn't fluctuate much at lights. Next on the to-do list for worry-free driving is now the tranny. I came to a few lights where I couldn't get it to slide into first once I came to a stop. Every gear would grind trying to get it in somewhere, finally I would get it to slam into 3rd then could drop down into 2nd to feather it on take-off. Not a good feeling to let it slam into 3rd (and it was a bit embarrassing to tell the truth, I haven't missed a gear in 20 years). Odd that it really seemed to start when everything was fully warmed up, around 10 miles or so into the drive. Fluid levels perhaps?

    I'll check the clutch adjustment, shift linkage... anyone have other suggestions that don't require pulling the tranny to check? I'll likely get it in to have the clutch checked out to be safe, but that makes me worried for the gears. Who knows how long it was driven grinding away at lights.
     
  17. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    Spoke with the tranny shop just around the corner from my house (202 Transmission), the owner is a 3rd generation transmission guy. He said that if he couldn't figure out what's wrong with the 3 speed in my 50, he would yank it, degrease it, and drive it to Casa Grande so his retired dad could rip it apart and find the issue.

    They got the car Monday am, yanked the tranny Tues. So far so good with this shop, good communication, easy to reach the owner with any issues. They say they're sure it's a bad clutch so I ordered a new one from Chris (shoebox-central). Their parts supplier wanted almost $600 for a rebuilt clutch, Chris's is $150 after I send back my core.

    The prev owner just raved about how 'great that clutch is'. I know that I was not hard on it at all in the 50 miles I've put on the car... if it goes out again in a short period of time, it's getting a C4, new column, and new rear end.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  18. Finnrodder
    Joined: Oct 18, 2009
    Posts: 2,965

    Finnrodder
    Member
    from Finland

    That kind of transmission shop is a great find,looks like they sure have the know-how.
    Are you going to upgrade the rear end to Maverick axle?
     
  19. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    Phoenix is a strange town for parts, we have so many people that we get a lot of parts cars... but in my experience we also have so many people that the parts you need get snapped up fairly quickly. If I can FIND a Maverick rear I'll go for that... I bet I can find an explorer or S10 rear pretty easily though. I did see one maverick on craigslist a while ago... I hesitated as I wasn't 100% sure I was going to go C4. By the time I replied to his reply, it was gone (about 8 hours).
     
  20. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    To paraphrase a conversation with Chris this am: my order needed to be cancelled as they are out of stock on clutches, everyone ordered replacements and no one sent in their cores... he does not have anything to be sent out and rebuilt.

    So, a polite request from me would be if you ordered without sending in a core, please touch base with him and see if he still needs yours so that the next guy in line that needs one could have a chance. At this point, my options are to go with a chinese knock-off (that he warned me will cause issues), or leave my car at the shop for god knows how long while they try and find one (they probably don't like that option), or I'm switching to a damn automatic simply due to parts availability (I'm sure they will LOVE that idea due to $ alone).

    Anyone have experience with or an opinion on these replacement clutches? These are the ones I have been warned against using.
     
  21. That's the same clutch disc I have in my car, but I have no miles on it since installing. I had one in my '49 with no issues, but I didn't put a ton of miles on it before I sold it.
     
  22. glrbird
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 558

    glrbird
    Member

    You live in a large town, we have a local business that does truck brake and clutch relinings, they did such a good job we even ran a relined clutch in a race car. May be they could do yours. Take a deep breath, there are going to be lots of things you can't controll in the future.
     
  23. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    Had a bit of spare time today waiting for the shop to install the new clutch, decided to open up a set of 94's I have for a 2x2... I am not sure which model one of them is so I started with the one I knew for sure. Once I saw the power valve, I am pretty sure that this one was set up as a secondary but I'll let you decide. Here's what I saw when I got it apart (the one on the left obviously and yes I have read that a lot of guys filled an old one with JB weld lol).

    IMG_0113.JPG
    The carb has clearly been opened (screws were barely tight) but nothing was cleaned. It's like whoever opened it just got to the power valve and said F it. Carb body is soaking in cleaner now... I'll wire brush it down in a bit and see how it looks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  24. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    Indeed it does, it was the first social forum I joined. I read through hours of good stuff... Helped answer a few questions already!


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  25. The Rebel wire harness is a good product ............ even for the electrically challenged, like myself! ;). Looks like you've got a lot sorted and it's all moving in the right direction for you ........ good to see. Adam
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  26. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    I've heard good things about that one, also American auto wire. I'll also vouch for the speedway harness I have in the car. Plenty of room to grow with any of these!


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  27. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

    I just stopped by the shop to check on my tranny, was hoping to drive it home today. They opened the case and found a large bald patch of missing teeth on 1st and a few chips off of the 1st/reverse slider. A bit disheartening as I understood that they had done this before I ordered my clutch almost 2 weeks ago. In the meantime, I did get a new automatic column from a 52 that's in GREAT shape knowing that I would eventually be going automatic in this car.

    I think I've found a new 1st gear on ebay, fingers crossed and asking them to double-check before I purchase... but does anyone have a good source for the 1st/reverse slider? Or a part # that I can reference, I'm not even 100% sure on the model # of this 3speed trans? **EDIT: I found the blow apart on the Van Pelt site, I'm waiting on the tranny shop to confirm which parts I need by part # **EDIT Again: Pat WT-253-8A on its way to me... should have the tranny back in a week!
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  28. Dirtroadbandit52
    Joined: Mar 4, 2014
    Posts: 14

    Dirtroadbandit52
    Member

    Nice car bud lookin good . Quick question. Where did u purchase the 12 volt conversion?
     
  29. Brentphx
    Joined: Aug 12, 2014
    Posts: 256

    Brentphx
    Member

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