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History My Rant

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ElCaminoJohn, Sep 12, 2014.

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  1. ElCaminoJohn
    Joined: Dec 9, 2006
    Posts: 3

    ElCaminoJohn
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    I do apologize if I'm in the wrong forum, and I know this might be my first post, I've been a member for a while. Anyway's I felt the compulsion to rant...

    To start I do feel for you obscure engine lovers! I want to do a period Chevy deal, lets say early to mid 60's or so. I'd love to do a 348 but those are crazy expensive, so I figured if I did a small block Chevy it would require the following,

    A) No hole valve covers
    B) A ventilator early block
    C) points or better yet a vintage dual point
    D) no accessory hole heads
    E) no damper or a tiny one
    F) a generator
    G) a solid lifter cam like a -097 Duntov

    and of course vintage correct intake, carb, rams horns etc.

    As I think and build inside my crazy head I researched these same thoughts online. And every thread I clicked opon regarding 283's and 327's across the northern hemisphere of the WWW, they always end in the same communist conclusion. "IT'S CHEAPER AND BETTER TO BUILD A 350, YOUR A DUMBASS FOR THINKING OTHERWISE". So every poor bastard that tries to think for himself on the internet is pummeled with old Hot Rod Magazines and threatened with the exuberant cost of doing something outside the box. And we are talking small block Chevy here, not a 390 AMC or a Buick Nailhead, or a 50's Olds, but dime a dozen Chevy's.

    Today I took a pair of 462's to a machine shop. I discovered the basic guide/spring/valve job is about $500. I know it's better and cheaper to do some Vortec's but what's the fun or nostalgia in doing what everyone else does. It cost more to do it old-school, and that is the cost of reliving history, the cost of capturing a moment in time back when your 13, riding in the backset of your buddy's older brothers Chevy II with a high winding 327 rowing threw the gears. It isn't always about the cost for why we do what we do, in fact is should never be about the cost of doing it nostalgia correct. Without the nostalgia, without the history, without the "these heads are the same one's as he ran" we might as well all drive silver Honda's and throw our favorite grease rag in the hamper and wash it clean.

    I'm done sorry,
    El Camino
     
  2. Ya gotta love those "jus' build a tree fiddy" guys. At least that is how I hear them speaking when I read their posts. The other group is the "crate motor" guys. Their argument is based on lack of ambition.

    If you want a period small block, there's a bunch of stuff you can it from build cheap. The one expensive obstacle is the no accessory holes in the heads- if that's a sticky point its going to cost you to whip them old things into shape.
     
  3. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Oh good, we haven't had a rant in about 15 minutes ! :D

    Build what you want, and if concourse correct motors are your thing have at it. But the reason people sometimes suggest putting a newer 350 in it is because they:

    1) are more available and cheaper to build than the old 327s and similar motors.

    2) they put out more hp .

    3) you can't tell the difference pretty much unless it is a Vortec. Most people can't tell the difference between a 327 and 350 block.

    Technology has come so far since 1963, so it kinda makes sense to take advantage of it. If we would have had one of today's built 350's in 1963 we would have been king of the hill. But no one is stopping you from building one the way you see fit.

    Don
     
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  4. In your infinite wisdom and x-ray vision, tell me the CID of this motor...
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1410566718.160381.jpg

    You can't tell? Then what does it matter.

    I tell people it's a 3.5" stroked 327. Most people are like "cool! Sounds fast"


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    loudbang and 33sporttruck like this.

  5. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    Yea, nice rant. But you want to know what REALLY works? Satisfying yourself and doing what pulls YOUR trigger. People in general need to stop looking to see what's popular and start pleasing and doing for themselves.

    Try this. Next time you're unsure or unclear about what engine, color of paint, wheels, tires, etc., you're planning for your car, ask the person who dressed you that morning. Was it your mom or yourself?

    It's funny. Thinking for yourself is now considered "thinking outside the gawd damn box".
     
    willbe, Treganin, Ned Ludd and 2 others like this.
  6. Purple !
     
  7. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    ;)
     
  8. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 9,486

    5window
    Member

    I was going to rant back at you, but I just don't have the energy. Please do a HAMB search about this topic and re-read some previous documents on this subject. It'll save me time and Ryan bandwidth. If you don't want a 350, put something else in it. I'd be willing to read what you did, I'm not too interested in complaints.
     
  9. I do feel your pain. I tried to put a 283 in my 56 Chevy but every one I found had a cracked block. So I got a 327 block...it turned out to be cracked. So I got a 350 block which you couldn't differentiate from a 327 unless you really tried to. Used all my old 327 stuff on it and viola! Looks like and old chebby motor.
     
  10. slammed
    Joined: Jun 10, 2004
    Posts: 8,150

    slammed
    Member

    Do the homework/research to save time and money. Tell the crate/350 boy'z to hike over to Lemmings.com for a saving of bandwidth (have you seen the NSRA/GG threads that never die?) By taking a hardcore build to the limit it bring more of what the guys in the late '90s' were doing, breaking free from that herd mentality caused by a handful of magazines & fore mentioned 'shows'. PS these builds causes a major guilt/pissy fit from the tree-fiddy crowd. Save it boyz, let this fella boogie! Adding this:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lemming
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
  11. That's the beauty of the SBC, there's 100 million of them, With the exception of a few quirks they are about the same since 1955, also with exception of a few quirks all the parts swap and the ones that don't will swap if you swap an entire system.

    There's a work around for everything and 98% of them are actually pretty good.

    But a high compression sbc be it a 283, a stroked 283 aka 307 or 327 is going to run the pants off a crate motor and get way better mileage than any 350 ever will.
     
  12. ElCaminoJohn
    Joined: Dec 9, 2006
    Posts: 3

    ElCaminoJohn
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    Awesome engine Dan Hey, It's not about the CID but more the "LOOK" then the "SOUND" I'm after. Performance is important but relative, if a 283 screams and a blast to drive that beats a larger engine that's boring but might be faster. Make since?
    I appreciate the responses, all of them. My small block of choice is a 327 crank, 283 block with power pack heads. But so far, the 283 blocks I've purchased have been to old (even a late '62 casting) and won't accept a 327 crankshaft (flat bottom) and the power pack heads that where on that engine were both cracked. I'd still like to do a 307 old-school, I have a '68 307 in my parts hauler truck with "601" heads and it's a runner, it runs very well. But, I'd like one old school with power pack heads and a lumpy solid cam. I feel if the engine is exposed in the car it is the picture and the car around it the frame. Very few people stand around a picture drinking beer and gawk at the frame. Make it interesting.
    El Camino
     
  13. You wanted Purple? Here's Purple!
     

    Attached Files:

  14. My small block of choice is a 327 crank, 283 block with power pack heads.

    Dude, that's a 307.
    The absolute worst Pos that Chevy ever divided.

    My all time favorite scb by the way.
    Search my 307 threads and fat hack has good one lipstick on a pig.

    Did you know that smokie and duntov built one of the first ones and ran 155 mph with it? Did you know duntov made a special cam for that build , the 30-30 was installed in that engine first.

    If you are lucky you can easily build a little 325 hp 307 for about 600.00. More if you need no accessory holes. If you are real unlucky you can do it for 1000 plus the heads. If you are stupid you will have way more into one than a 350, they are correct there.
     
  15. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,775

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    So can you plug the accessory holes, grind the bosses, and dummy the heads to look like earlier castings?
     
  16. I suppose you could because I'm a firm believer in anything is possible. Just a lot of it simply isn't practical because of simpler alternatives.
     
  17. Doesn't seem to be anyone that really questions what your saying,do what you want,build what you want.

    Post some photos.HRP
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
  18. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,399

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    I got no clue what size that engine is...BUT you do have one mother of a stabilizer bar!!!!
     
  19. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,477

    King ford
    Member
    from 08302

    Every damn smallblock Chevy looks the same, they are about as exciting to look at as rodent shit (either mouse or rat coincidentally the slang term for Chevy motors)


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  20. ElCaminoJohn
    Joined: Dec 9, 2006
    Posts: 3

    ElCaminoJohn
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    Does anyone remember late 70's HOT ROD Econorail Project? Seems they had a 310 or 315 CID limit so HOT ROD built a 307, that glamorized the engine to me. And the first true proven time slip documented 12 second car I ever rode in was a 1970 malibu with guess what? The origional 307. It had bolt-on's an intake, headers, carb and cam and 4:88 gears and it f'n ran...

    El Camino
     
  21. They surely can be boring but don't have to be that way.
    Mostly because of the guys building them with the cheap cheesy catalogues filled with Chinese goods. The owner of a boring engine is usually boring too.

    You know about 1953 ish they were quietly whispering the same thing behind closed doors about the flatheads as chevy was gearing up for its launch of the it's New OHV engine? By 1955 they were pretty open about that opinion. It wasn't known as the small block yet.
     
  22. johnybsic
    Joined: Oct 8, 2009
    Posts: 612

    johnybsic
    Member
    from las vegas

    Well, do it... you don't need us or the internet to 'ok' your plans. It just takes you and your wallet.
    And I give the same response to eveyone who gripes about "boring chevy v8's that look the same". Jesus its not ALL about how exciting your motor looks, its about dropping the fu*kin hammer on it. THAT is what's most exciting about hotrods. Your motor is a bit "cooler" looking, but its so small i can't see it real well in my rearview mirror. ;)



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  23. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,477

    King ford
    Member
    from 08302

    Yea hemi when there are too many of any one thing they get boring ,...I can see how that would have taken place in the 50s as flathead fords werein most hot rods .....but god I love those things! of course I wasn't born till1960 so I missed there heyday! while we're rantin when I go to a show or cruise in I like to see stuff you don't see much of anymore ( many examples are ot here but cars I remember from my youth) but if I see a ford hotrod with a non ford motor I at least like to see a little change of fare ( such as your rod) even if yours isn't the only hemi at least it's unusual and ergo interesting.....same thing with nailheads or Oldsmobiles or mopar Polly's.....ford fe,s y blocks.....enough out of me it's been fun!


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  24. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 17,342

    Squablow
    Member

    I try my best not to take part in rant-y threads, but I just can't help myself.

    Mark my words, on this day, I predict that in another 10 to 20 years, there will be a great nostalgia for small block Chevy engines, almost to the extent that flatheads have today. LS series engines are quickly becoming the go-to engine swap for the street rod and modified musclecar crowd, and stock car racers are quicly eating up the remaining left over SBC's.

    It's coming. I'll bet on it.
     
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  25. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    That's some VERY successful and track proven rodent shit.:D I'm a Chevy fan because my dad was. As I grew older, I looked and found the obvious reason that he was. It's a proven design that has worked for decades. For the budding hot rodder on a budget, it can't be beat.

    My DREAM motor is a 426 HEMI. Legendary in power and strength. A close second for me would be the Ford SOHC motors. Again, legendary. I also have a little lust for the 6.6 Super Duty. MY list goes on and on. In the end, it comes down to what an individual can afford and not what he wishes. To me, Flatheads are most beautiful engine EVER made. But a SBC will go 3 times as fast for the same money a Flathead would need. Economics.

    So, all this brand loyalty bull shit can actually be boiled down to one simple statement, "What can you afford, in order to go as fast as you can." For every SBC on the road, there's a guy with a DREAM, wishing he could afford to go just as fast at the same cost. Look around, there's a bunch of guys crying in their garages tonight because they tried to build something to "fit in", but they have great dreams. I guess.

    My hat goes off to the guy who can find and successfully campaign an obscure or non SBC engine. More power to you and Gawd bless their fortitude. But for the average "Joe", on a limited budget, he should probably get SBC tattooed right below "MOM".

    Remember, when your car is broken down in BFE, you'll be grateful you have a SBC because parts to fix it are everywhere. If not, you can always start a thread on the HAMB, asking for some help. Shit, there's probably an APP for that.

    Nothing says "cool", like a dedicated guy sitting on the side of the road waiting for help.:rolleyes:

    Now, THAT'S a rant. PURPLE.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
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  26. I used a NOS 283 block with steel crank and power pack heads for my cabrio. Wasn't real cheap to do but it looks the way I want it to. Tim
     
  27. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,477

    King ford
    Member
    from 08302

    Hey Nisan makes some reliable and fast cars too but do you think they are cool?....if fast and cheap are your only requirements what are you looking at the hamb for?


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  28. MAD 034
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 775

    MAD 034
    Member
    from Washington

    I have recently joined the dumbass club. I had the experience of building a '57 283 for my coupe over the winter and after all the machine work, new parts, etc. I am in it about $4K. It is mostly stock running an early Chev intake and Rochester 4 jet carb. Learned a ton and I have a new respect for proper engine building.
     
  29. Here's a pic.
     

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  30. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    It's "Nissan" and yes, they have some bad ass shit, but I'm into OLD American shit.:D
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
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