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Projects My New Project: 1956 Cadillac Sedan Deville Resurrection Thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by chstitans42, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. jimcolwell
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 474

    jimcolwell
    Member
    from Amarillo

    I don't care what anybody says, don't grind the valves without replacing the rings. The increased compression from the properly operating of the valves will break the carbon from the rings and you'll have a smoker and oil user.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
     
  2. cowboyinachair
    Joined: Nov 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    cowboyinachair
    Member
    from colorado

    have your intake milled it should be fairly cheep stop waisting gaskets
     
  3. 2racer
    Joined: Sep 1, 2011
    Posts: 960

    2racer
    Member

    Try putting the manifold on with no gaskets and see if it sits flat all around.
     
  4. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

  5. When you set the intake on the engine with no gaskets, and were able to easily slide it side to side, I think you may have stumbled on to something there. :eek:

    Where exactly on the intake and engine are the contact areas where the sliding occurs? These are the areas that may require a few thousandths milling. I'd rather see the intake making full contact on the gasket surfaces even with no gaskets in place and no sliding straight side to side. Especially if you end up using the thinner metal gaskets. You may actually be torquing the intake against the top of the block instead of the gasket surfaces of the heads.

    A single thickness composition gasket may fix the problem, if they're thick enough. If you have a set, place them on the heads and just set the manifold on top. Then get out the feeler gauges again and check for clearance at the front and rear rail of the intake manifold and the block surface. At least I suspect that this is where the contact is when you can slide the manifold from side to side.

    Fight the urge to "over-torque" anything until you are sure there is no contact between the intake and the block, only between the intake and the heads! Keep checking the clearance front and rear while bolting down the intake and make sure it's not binding against the block. If it all fits properly you may have to re-torque things after a while, but it shouldn't require "over-torquing". ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
  6. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

    From what I have seen, the intake makes contact with the top edges of the intake runners, but not the bottom. For example, if I spray carb cleaner on the intake near the valve cover, the rpms stay the same. If I do it on the underside, near the lifter valley, then it gets sucked up and the rpms go up. I would think it is making contact on the upper part.
     
  7. It's hard to see from this distance, but in your video at :30 it looks like you're able to slide the manifold straight across from side to side without it raising one side of the manifold as it "climbs" the cylinder head. I just may not be able to detect it from the video. :confused:

    Turn the manifold upside down and look for any witness marks where maybe some paint has been freshly scraped away from sliding the manifold around. Look closely at the top of the block as well. If you find some suspicious looking areas you might put a strip of masking tape in a few areas, slide the manifold around again and see if you can see some high spots where it scrapes up the tape. ;)

    Were the deck surfaces of the block indeed milled? Were the head surfaces trued-up as well? o_O
     
  8. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

    Supposedly both the engine block and the intake ports on the heads were milled.
     
  9. I just went back and looked at the video where you removed the intake. You're taking the right approach I think, and I kind of got off on the wrong track since I hadn't really studied what the underside of the manifold looked like, or how it doesn't look to fit all that close to the lifter valley area of the block. Sorry for the distraction. The low angle of the gasket mating surfaces is what made it look like the intake was sliding easily straight across from side to side.

    As already mentioned, the intake might need just enough milling to true things up. A composition gasket will be a bit more forgiving than the metal shim type, though you still might want to put a little "ackenpuckey" on it just to be safe. :rolleyes:
     
  10. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

    Intake went on today, we shall see the result tomorrow. New double composite gaskets and rtv
     
  11. Good luck with it, this time!!
     
  12. cowboyinachair
    Joined: Nov 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    cowboyinachair
    Member
    from colorado

    first set of gaskets 35.00 double gaskets 70.00 =105.00
    michine intake 70.00 4th set of gaskets 35.00 =105.00 210.00
     
  13. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

  14. I think what you're seeing while using the remote switch is the current flow thru the bypass ignition circuit. The same thing happens when starting the engine with the ignition switch. In the cranking position the ignition switch bypasses the ballast resistor and routes direct battery voltage to the positive coil terminal. This is done as an aid to cold starting. When the engine starts and the key is released and returns to the "run" position, the ignition switch then routes current thru the ballast resistor and reduces the voltage to the positive coil terminal. The lower voltage in the "run" position helps prolong the life of the points.

    http://automotivewiringdiagrams.net...gnition-circuit-diagram-of-1958-ford-cars.jpg
     
  15. cowboyinachair
    Joined: Nov 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    cowboyinachair
    Member
    from colorado

    its through the silanoid (sp) so it has 12v on start not a problem
     
  16. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

    Alright guys, a small update on the caddy. So I have decided that I am tired of NOT driving this car. I have spent the last few months or so fighting the intake vacuum leak, and trying to get these dual carbs to work correctly. Even with dual thick intake gaskets I still have a vacuum leak when I spray carb cleaner on the bottom of the intake. Cylinder one is 100% dead. I have decided to take off the 2x4 carbs, intake and air cleaner, and go with something more modern and simple. The main issue is that the 2x4 carb setup is very temper mental; it has no traditional idle screw, but has an idle air screw, and then two fuel mixture screws. You set the idle by adjusting these three screws on both carbs. I’m sure that some of you will say I shouldn’t go this route, because the car will no longer be original. I’m at the point not I’d rather have it set up like this and drive it, then wait around till someone can come over that knows how to tune them.

    Anyways, with that being said, I am in need of a few parts:

    · Single carburetor intake for a 1956 Cadillac 365 motor, preferably not cracked or warped.

    · Linkages and rods for that same carb setup.

    · Single Carb Cadillac correct air cleaner.


    For the carb itself, I am planning on running a rebuilt Edelbrock or Carter AFB carb on that intake, or possibly my friend’s Carter WCFB. The only hang up that I can see along the way is getting the carbs to also run the transmission TV rod that comes off that linkage. Any helps or tips would be appreciated.
     
  17. 2racer
    Joined: Sep 1, 2011
    Posts: 960

    2racer
    Member

  18. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

  19. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

    55Caddy62, I will check out that website. Thanks!
     
  20. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

  21. Glad to hear your intake leak is resolved. Good luck adjusting the TV rod!
     
  22. dvs
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 63

    dvs
    Member

    Cool car, looks like it'll be fun. Good job on the video.
     
  23. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

  24. You could just tell everyone it has a gear drive cam... I hope you get the trans straightened out easily. I know this is a little late but my dad put a 700r4 in a 56 for a guy a few years ago. Someone makes an adapter for them.
     
  25. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

    I have considered a 700r4, and have a pretty good idea how to do it. The problem of course, is always $$
    $800 for adapter/kit, $500 for transmission build and another $100 for a core, then $$ to fab up the drive shaft and mount, figure out shifter rod, speedo cable etc etc. In the end itll probably be as much as I paid the rebuilder. I see this as a last chance option, and will consider it. Hopefully I can get it figured out. Here is a link Dan to the caddy page where I am getting some good information.
    http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=138480.0
    I mean I got the running issues and vacuum leak issue fixed, its just one thing at a time.
     
  26. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

    Another video on the noise.
     
  27. Here's a little something to consider from the HydraMatic Wiki page.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydramatic

    If you're like me, and I know I am, you may have to read and reread this a few times to see the pattern that develops. The forward planetary gear assembly seems to see the most usage in 1st and 3rd gears and is locked in 2nd and 4th gears. In doing so it seems to reduce the power flow and slippage thru the fluid coupling. In 4th gear it effectively allows 100% power flow thru the coupling, acting like a lock-up torque converter on a more modern transmission.

    In first gear, power flow was through the forward planetary gear assembly (either 1.45:1 or 1.55:1 reduction, depending on the model), then the fluid coupling, followed by the rear gear assembly (2.63:1 reduction) and through the reverse gear assembly (normally locked) to the output shaft. That is, the input torus of the fluid coupling ran at a lower speed than the engine, due to the reduction of the forward gear assembly. This produced an exceptionally smooth startup because of the relatively large amount of slippage initially produced in the fluid coupling. This slippage quickly diminished as engine RPM increased.

    When the transmission upshifted to second gear, the forward gear assembly locked and the input torus now ran at engine speed. This had the desirable effect of "tightening" the coupling and reducing slippage, but unfortunately also produced a somewhat abrupt shift. It wasn't at all uncommon for the vehicle to lurch forward during the 1-2 shift, especially when the throttle was wide open.

    Upon shifting to third, the forward gear assembly went back into reduction and the rear gear assembly locked. Due to the manner in which the rear gear assembly was arranged, the coupling went from handling 100 percent of the engine torque to about 40 percent, with the balance being handled solely by the gear train. This greatly reduced slippage, which fact was audible by the substantial reduction that occurred in engine RPM when the shift occurred.

    The shift from third to fourth gear locked the forward gear assembly, producing 1.00:1 transmission. The fluid coupling now only handled about 25 percent of the engine torque, reducing slippage to a negligible amount. The result was a remarkably efficient level of power transfer at highway speeds, something that torque converter equipped automatics could not achieve without the benefit of a converter clutch.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  28. chstitans42
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 714

    chstitans42
    Member
    from Anna, TX

    Claymart thanks for the info. I plan on driving it a good 50 miles or so and see if there is any difference from use. What do you guys think?
     
  29. cowboyinachair
    Joined: Nov 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    cowboyinachair
    Member
    from colorado

    just like i said before drive it to the guy that built the trans and let him tell you whats wrong with it
     
    chstitans42 likes this.

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